B
benidict
Guest
it is not that complicated, when you look at the many verses, that state, a person can truly believe, be on the road to heaven, and fall away. that it is possible to be living for God, and and that it is possible to fall away and lose heaven in the end. its not that complicated when you read the Church fathers, who gave strong warnings. therefore, its not complicated to see that if a person dies in the midst of a serious sin, there is not much of a hope. Calvinist, would tell us, it does not matter. the person believed so he was “saved”. to say a person was not one of yours, or Gods, is more presumptious i would think. how can you know if that person was never right with God in the first place? come to think of it…How do you are one of the elect? thanks and peace.
Well where, if ever, has this happened? You seem to be implying an almost birds eye view into the misterious eternal decrees of God, which a Calvinist would rule out as impossible to know, I can know that I am saved but I can never truely know if you are saved.
I don’t beleive it is a simple question so I will refrain from giving a simple yes or no. If the person is saved than yes if not than no. Many people die who live very godly lives and are not saved. We can never really know what is between a brother or sister and God, I find it troubling to even speculate in such a way. Again unless God has given you some inside knowledge to who made it and who didn’t and than you can compare their lives to a biblical one and make a decision, than fine ( but we are all not so luckly).
We also affirm that sanctification is progressive, so on that note one might assume that the answer would be no, they were at that point never one of the elect. Your question was framed withen Catholic presupositions, that is fine but in order to critique Calvinism from a reductio ad absurdeum type argument, assume Calvinism to be true and work the logical implications of it and show that it is absurd logically, than you must accept Calvinistic presupositions in your argument, not Catholic ones.
For a Catholic it is easy a mortal sin is a mortal is a mortal sin. So this person than lost their salvation, but for a Calvinist we view things as to whether or not they were ever saved to begin with. Also the Covenant of Grace plays in here because all elect will be part of the Covenant of Grace in some fashion. So In this sense did this person commit apostacy and leave the visible church? If so than they were never really onre of us. You see the question is much more complicated than you think it is.
