Can a Catholic disagree about Global Warming?

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Except that none of us are scientists. I’ll leave it up to the scientists to discuss the bows and knots of global warming and then make up my own mind about the details. From what I’ve gathered on the issue, man-made global warming is the overwhelming consensus among climate scientists and scientific bodies of all advanced nations. There are dissenters, most of whom act in good faith, but others who’s objection seems to be rooted more in certain economic interests. In spite of all this if the Holy See had denied this was true or advised Christians to suspend judgement I would. But seeing as how the Holy See has affirmed this position then I have all I need to make up my mind.
 
Except that none of us are scientists. I’ll leave it up to the scientists to discuss the bows and knots of global warming and then make up my own mind about the details. From what I’ve gathered on the issue, man-made global warming is the overwhelming consensus among climate scientists and scientific bodies of all advanced nations. There are dissenters, most of whom act in good faith, but others who’s objection seems to be rooted more in certain economic interests. In spite of all this if the Holy See had denied this was true or advised Christians to suspend judgement I would. But seeing as how the Holy See has affirmed this position then I have all I need to make up my mind.
The Church has not endorsed any of the radical solitions proposed to solve so called Global Warming(I believe we ar supposed to call it climate chang now)
 
I didn’t speak of ‘solutions’. Even people who are in agreement on an issue may differ on what must be done about it, if anything at all. I was merely pointing out that the position of the Vatican on the existence of global warming/climate change is in unison with that of the current scientific consensus.
 
I didn’t speak of ‘solutions’. Even people who are in agreement on an issue may differ on what must be done about it, if anything at all. I was merely pointing out that the position of the Vatican on the existence of global warming/climate change is in unison with that of the current scientific consensus.
We havent heard from the Vatican since it was revealed that the so called consensus was based on lies and manipulated data
 
Except that none of us are scientists. I’ll leave it up to the scientists to discuss the bows and knots of global warming and then make up my own mind about the details. From what I’ve gathered on the issue, man-made global warming is the overwhelming consensus among climate scientists and scientific bodies of all advanced nations. There are dissenters, most of whom act in good faith, but others who’s objection seems to be rooted more in certain economic interests. In spite of all this if the Holy See had denied this was true or advised Christians to suspend judgement I would. But seeing as how the Holy See has affirmed this position then I have all I need to make up my mind.
The question is “most of whom act in good faith”.

And the evidence is in: NOT TRUE! They did not act in good faith.

You don’t need to be a scientist.

If you are on a jury, you don’t need to be a lawyer or a judge.

JUST take a look at the “Climategate” issue.

amazon.com/Climategate-Crutape-Letters-Steven-Mosher/dp/1450512437/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280079383&sr=8-3

amazon.com/Climategate-Veteran-Meteorologist-Exposes-Warming/dp/1935071831/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b

amazon.com/Great-Global-Warming-Blunder-Scientists/dp/1594033730/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Science is ALL ABOUT doing the reading. No substitute. Read, read, read. Until the floor of your house collapses from the weight of all the books.

That one issue alone is enough to condemn not only the whole global warming issue to the garbage pile of history, but is also enough to condemn the perpetrators of fraud and felony charges leading to prison sentences.

[And there are three DOZEN more similar issues of corrupted science.]

These alleged scientists who were paid very good money betrayed our trust in them. So, now, WE HAVE GOT TO DO THE READING.

The issues are too important to be left alone or dismissed as being too complicated or for us to start acting in a “passive aggressive” sort of way.

We all need to get in there and get up to speed.

You won’t get all of it the first time through. Just keep reading and it becomes easier.

In my case, each time I read it, I get ANGRIER that these people betrayed us.
 
There are a bunch of articles about the beginnings of criminal investigations/prosecutions of alleged scientists who deliberately falsified global warming reports.

Here is one; you can find more. Google “virginia prosecution global warming fraud” and “virginia prosecution global warming scientists” and similar search parameters.

humanevents.com/article.php?id=37402

This is the fraudulent taking of government money and making false statements.

If you were to do this, they would send you to Federal prison so fast you wouldn’t know what happened to you.
 
“‎All our science is just a cookery book, with an orthodox theory of cooking that nobody’s allowed to question, and a list of recipes that mustn’t be added to except by special permission from the head cook … We can’t allow science to undo its own good work.”
  • Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
 
Well, yes, a Catholic can disagree about global warming, and about the abortion issue, and can even hold up a bank and kill the teller. It’s called free will.

However, there might be consequences. In the latter case the law might catch up to that said Catholic. In the two former cases, since there are no laws to protect the innocent from being killed, Heaven’s gatekeeper might have a few questions…

And when you get to Heaven the Lord will say,
what about those excessive greenhouse gases you emitted every day,
and when you say you do not know,
the Lord will say, please step below.

Choices, choices, what should a Catholic do?

Abortion kills people, tho some say they are not people. Global warming kills people, tho some say it is not happening, and even if it is it does not kill, and even if it kills, it is not caused by me (so sayeth Cain).
 
Well, yes, a Catholic can disagree about global warming, and about the abortion issue, and can even hold up a bank and kill the teller. It’s called free will.

However, there might be consequences. In the latter case the law might catch up to that said Catholic. In the two former cases, since there are no laws to protect the innocent from being killed, Heaven’s gatekeeper might have a few questions…

And when you get to Heaven the Lord will say,
what about those excessive greenhouse gases you emitted every day,
and when you say you do not know,
the Lord will say, please step below.

Choices, choices, what should a Catholic do?

Abortion kills people, tho some say they are not people. Global warming kills people, tho some say it is not happening, and even if it is it does not kill, and even if it kills, it is not caused by me (so sayeth Cain).
Are you seriously trying to put a skeptic attitude towards what effect many really has on “global warming” on apar with abortion? Or was that a joke? I hope the latter, because if it’s the former I think you need to take a step back.
 
Science is ALL ABOUT doing the reading. No substitute. Read, read, read. Until the floor of your house collapses from the weight of all the books.
The gold standard of science is not the book, but the peer-reviewed article. Book publishers just want to make money; they don’t care about the truth.

I suggest you start reading the science journals, as I have done over the past 20 years. AGW is as near a done deal as science can provide, considering AGW’s vast complexities and the short time (since 1995) that it first reached .05 significance (95% confidence) in scientific studies (see: Kerr, R. A. 1995. “Studies Say -Tentatively -That Greenhouse Warming is Here.” Science 268.5217: 1567-8).

You read this guest post, and tell me that the author is a out and out liar: realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2010/07/an-icy-retreat/

Now, if you really want to learn about global warming and all the details you’ve been asking for, please read this by Dr. James Hansen (I can vouch for him – his a good man, a Christian, and his wife, children and grandchildren are Catholics and his brother-in-law is an official in the Catholic Church in Europe); he is one of the most frank, unassuming, honest persons I know, and I do know him: STORMS OF MY GRANDCHILDREN. Check out the video lower on the page.

Also check this out (and the video lower on the page): Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming, by Naomi Oreskes (a person I’ve been in contact with and can vouch for).

As I recently wrote on a blog, no one wants AGW to be happening and dangerous. No one. But I, for one, want the truth, and I’m not afraid to face it. And I’ve found we could reduce our GHGs by over 60% cost-effectively, saving us money. At the very least people should be willing to do that to avert a very serious risk to life.

But what we risk is not just life on planet earth, but our immortal souls. Why would people want to take that risk? I can understand why atheist denialists would, but why would good Christians want to take that risk and have to spend their eternity away from such a awesome and gracious God, Lord and Savior. Is a globally warmed world just not hot enough for some people.
 
The gold standard of science is not the book, but the peer-reviewed article. Book publishers just want to make money; they don’t care about the truth.

I.
Peer Reviewed studies base on the manipulated data of East Anglia university and reviewed by those manipulating the data. Garbag in, Garbage out

I am somehat surpirsed that anyone is still using peer reviewed sytdies as proof since it was shown in the leaked emails that there was a concentrated affort to deny publication of to any study that did not follow the company line.
 
Does anyone remember the scientific method? A crucial step is omitted in the AGW hypothesis. (Science is a social enterprise, and scientific work tends to be accepted by the community when it has been confirmed. Crucially, experimental and theoretical results must be reproduced by others within the science community.)
All we have is a hypothesis. It is not and cannot be science no matter how many people agree with the hypothesis.
 
Peer Reviewed studies base on the manipulated data of East Anglia university and reviewed by those manipulating the data. Garbag in, Garbage out

I am somehat surpirsed that anyone is still using peer reviewed sytdies as proof since it was shown in the leaked emails that there was a concentrated affort to deny publication of to any study that did not follow the company line.
It also showed that while they may have wished some studies (by deceitful scientists getting fossil fuel bucks) not to be published, they did not have control, and did not act to pursue that wish. I also wish people would stop fussing and just start mitigating AGW, but am powerless to make them – it’s been like me banging my head against a brick wall for 20 years, trying to tell people about AGW and inspire them to mitigate. If they had started doing so 20 years ago the harms in the pipes wouldn’t be so terrible, but even now we can reduce harm, we can make life more bearable for our progeny.

The place to dispute science is in peer-reviewed articles. That is the way science is done, not on blogs or books. Scientists don’t just say something is wrong, they have to go out and do extensive studies, and prove it is wrong. It is highly competitive to get published in such journals (I know from experience in my own social science field). The reason you don’t see many articles skeptical of AGW being published, is because such articles would not pass scientific scrutiny. However, occasionally some skeptical articles do get published, which keeps other scientists on their toes and may lead them to either accept that new finding/theory, or find flaws, do their own study and get their articles published. One needs to follow the cutting edge science in top tier journals and consider the most recent studies and the bulk of the studies, not just one or two that supports one’s preconceived ideas or various policy implications. We need fact-driven policy, not policy-driven “facts.”

Scientists don’t get paid for publishing in such journals. They don’t even get paid for their research beyond their regular salaries. The grants they get only pay part or all of their salaries they would have gotten anyway, and for the equipment and research expenses. No one is getting rich doing science. I know. I’ve gotten grants. But the denialists are making a bundle from publishing sensationalized and misleading books, and some are getting big bucks from the fossil fuel industry, as well.

I guess if people listen to lies enough from those deceivers, they might start believing them. The CRU scientists have been vindicated. All they did a bit wrong was not be as forthcoming with requests for data, as they could have been – assuming they would have had more time and help to comply with the myriad of FOI requests being thrown at them from all directions, many made by people just trying to harass them. Total vindication in their science and methods.

Furthermore, there are hundreds of working scientists aside from the CRU scientists who have been studying AGW for years and decades, and have come of with their own findings supporting AGW. For instance, biologists, like Dr. Camile Parmesan, have found animals laying eggs and giving birth earlier, and plants flowering earlier. There is the stalagmite/stalactite proxy data and the ocean’s foraminifera fossil data that all support global warming and teach us about past warmings and coolings. There is the undisputed physic behind the natural greenhouse effect. The evidence is quite robust, even if one were to delete the CRU works.

Some don’t like the message, so they mock, belittle, slander, harass, silence, and threaten the messengers (some actually need police protection, and I think it’s a strong possibility that someone will actually kill some scientist sometime, some “crusader” who thinks he’s doing right). The climate scientists are the true heroes of our day, not buckling to those evil and vicious attacks on the one side, and to the offers of mega-bucks from the fossil fuel industry (esp Exxon and Koch Industries, but also from coal and other oil companies) on the other side.

The mocking of Al Gore is completely inexcusable and vicious, totally unChristian. His message was that life is more important than economics.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Which includes following prudence and precaution in dealing with others’ lives (meaning we’ve been mitigating since 1990). I didn’t even need 95% confidence back then that AGW is happening and is dangerous (the reticent scientific standard), and neither did JPII back in 1990 when he said it was everyone’s responsibility to mitigate (see here). That statement has never been retracted by the Catholic Church, no matter how many devils are working their tails off to get it to do so. It stands.

And even if JPII had not made that statement or BXVI and others in the Vatican had not made theirs, the Bible commandment “Thou shalt not kill” is command enough to mitigate AGW.

That AGW is killing people and God’s creation, and will be doing so with much more harm in the future is admittedly a very very tough message to swallow; it says we are killing people. But there is redemption in the blood of Christ. Making up is so sweet. I invite all to join me on this wholesome path of mitigating AGW. You will find that the yoke is easy and the burden is light. And also that you are not only mitigating AGW, but many other problems, as well. You will be happier and richer for it, I promise.

So long, and may God be with you.
 
The place to dispute science is in peer-reviewed articles. That is the way science is done, not on blogs or books. Scientists don’t just say something is wrong, they have to go out and do extensive studies, and prove it is wrong. It is highly competitive to get published in such journals (I know from experience in my own social science field). The reason you don’t see many articles skeptical of AGW being published, is because such articles would not pass scientific scrutiny. However, occasionally some skeptical articles do get published, which keeps other scientists on their toes and may lead them to either accept that new finding/theory, or find flaws, do their own study and get their articles published. One needs to follow the cutting edge science in top tier journals and consider the most recent studies and the bulk of the studies, not just one or two that supports one’s preconceived ideas or various policy implications. We need fact-driven policy, not policy-driven “facts.”

petesplace-peter.blogspot.com/2008/04/peer-reviewed-articles-skeptical-of-man.html
Scientists don’t get paid for publishing in such journals. They don’t even get paid for their research beyond their regular salaries. The grants they get only pay part or all of their salaries they would have gotten anyway, and for the equipment and research expenses. No one is getting rich doing science. I know. I’ve gotten grants. But the denialists are making a bundle from publishing sensationalized and misleading books, and some are getting big bucks from the fossil fuel industry, as well.
 
Furthermore, there are hundreds of working scientists aside from the CRU scientists who have been studying AGW for years and decades, and have come of with their own findings supporting AGW. For instance, biologists, like Dr. Camile Parmesan, have found animals laying eggs and giving birth earlier, and plants flowering earlier. There is the stalagmite/stalactite proxy data and the ocean’s foraminifera fossil data that all support global warming and teach us about past warmings and coolings. There is the undisputed physic behind the natural greenhouse effect. The evidence is quite robust, even if one were to delete the CRU works.
All of the rest of your comments save this one are an irrelevant diatribe. If you want to base your position on the fact that the science supports AGW, then make a case for it. Your examples, by the way, are irrelevant to the question. Whether or not the Earth is warming (and those studies address the fact of warming, not the cause) says nothing whatever about whether man is responsible, which is what the debate is actually about. As to whether there is “undisputed physic” behind the greenhouse effect, this too is not necessarily pertinent. The question is whether or not the additional CO2 that has been added to the atmosphere has resulted in additional warming, and that question is indisputably disputed.

Ender
 
Does anyone remember the scientific method? A crucial step is omitted in the AGW hypothesis. (Science is a social enterprise, and scientific work tends to be accepted by the community when it has been confirmed. Crucially, experimental and theoretical results must be reproduced by others within the science community.)
All we have is a hypothesis. It is not and cannot be science no matter how many people agree with the hypothesis.
And the hypothesis is a result of an extremely flawed modeling process. AGW is truly one of the poorest examples of science ever conceived by a politician.
 
It also showed that while they may have wished some studies (by deceitful scientists getting fossil fuel bucks) not to be published, they did not have control, and did not act to pursue that wish. I also wish people would stop fussing and just start mitigating AGW, but am powerless to make them – it’s been like me banging my head against a brick wall for 20 years, trying to tell people about AGW and inspire them to mitigate.
The earth has been warming since the last ice age. All the head banging in the world will not change that. After it stops warming, it will most likely start another cycle and cool again. This has been going on a lot longer than us burning carbon. You will be much happier if you accept this fact.
 
The earth has been warming since the last ice age. All the head banging in the world will not change that. After it stops warming, it will most likely start another cycle and cool again. This has been going on a lot longer than us burning carbon. You will be much happier if you accept this fact.
As you and I both know, AGW is not about science, it never was. It’s about taxes, and power.
 
As you and I both know, AGW is not about science, it never was. It’s about taxes, and power.
Correct. It is no coincidence that the solution to the so-called global warming crisis is the same agenda the left has been trying to force on us for the last hundred years.
.
 
While individuals within the Church have opinions, I don’t think those are considered a teaching of the Church. It’s not like global warming is part of the catechism of the faith.
Well the Church does teach that we are responsible of the environment around us and should take good care of God’s creation.

Also if I may remind CAF, global warming is a worldly matter not just a US matter. Stop making a political issue of it. If a certain party is using global warming as an excuse for certain malicious intentions than don’t refer to the issue as “global warming” but rather by the political agenda’s name. I’m just saying this because for the non-US citizens of CAF things get really confusing.
 
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