Can a cohabitating spouse go for confirmation before church wedding?

[kilotsi]

Hi, Brethren,
Please I am a baptised catholic who has not yet receive the sacrament of confession and presently not going for Holy Comminion because living in irregular marriage (only legalised but not known in Church) with a baptised and confirmed catholic spouse who is equally not taking Holy Communion for same reason. I have two major worries as regards our situation.
1)Given our situation can we each go for confession during this period of Lent?
2) As we are preparing to get married in Church, is it possible that I receive confirmation before the wedding or on the other way can I take the confirmation on a separate occasion after the church marriage? This is because I have read that the Parish Priest can through the authorisation of the Bishop give confirmation to one or both couples on the wedding day in Church whereas I would prefer to receive both sacraments separately.
please do advice accordingly, I am worried about this situation everyday I go for mass especailly during communion time when I start reflecting on my not going for it. Thanks much.

 

[maryjk]

You need to meet with your priest. He can answer all of your questions.

 

[fastenatingguy]

You need to ** **. He can answer all of your questions.

This is the correct answer.

 

[smichhertz]

You need to meet with your priest. He can answer all of your questions.

^This

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

You need to meet with your priest. He can answer all of your questions.

Glad to see everyone is in agreement!

 

[losh14]

I assume you’re talking with your priest since you are preparing to get married.

(1) You can always go to Confession. There is absolutely nothing ever that keeps a sinner (all of us) from receiving that Sacrament.

(2) If you are legitimately married in a civil marriage, it’s not cohabitation. You are also seeking to convalidate your civil marriage by celebrating the Sacrament of Matrimony. In general it is best to marry in the Church, but I wont’ ask you your reasons. You wouldn’t be the first to marry outside the Church then marry in the Church. Maybe you and your spouse have discovered in your marriage a desire to return to the Church, after you had been away from the Church for a time. Maybe you had a pressing and dire need for a civil marriage - as did a close friend of mine was married to his wife by a JOP while he was thought to be on his deathbed (thank God he recovered, they later married in the Church and I was his best man). The point is, just because you are married outside the Church doesn’t automatically mean you’re in grave sin, especially as you’re approaching coming fully into the Church.

I think the ecclesial question is:
Can you receive the Sacrament of Matrimony before you receive Confirmation? I think the answer is yes, but (as others have noted) talk to your priest about what needs to be done. It may very well be that Confirmation is simple enough to perform so might as well do it and be done. I’d especially think that, if your priest is concerned about you and your spouse not having what is called a “valid” marriage in the Church (that is, you are married civilly but not Sacramentally), he would not require you to be confirmed before being married if that would mean delaying the Sacrament of Matrimony further.

You are not in the wrong to abstain from receiving the Sacrament of Communion at this time. I do hope you are able to have an active prayer life and seek the Lord in Spiritual communion while you await full participation in the life of the Church once again. Welcome back, dear one.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

You need to meet with your priest. He can answer all of your questions.

This. It may be possible, but depends on where exactly you are in your faith (and possibly on whether you are willing to live as brother and sister until you are married in the Church).

Also note that Losh’s comment on it not being cohabitation if you are legally married is not in accordance with the Catholic understanding of marriage.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

I assume you’re talking with your priest since you are preparing to get married.

(1) You can always go to Confession. There is absolutely nothing ever that keeps a sinner (all of us) from receiving that Sacrament.

(2) If you are legitimately married in a civil marriage, it’s not cohabitation. You are also seeking to convalidate your civil marriage by celebrating the Sacrament of Matrimony. In general it is best to marry in the Church, but I wont’ ask you your reasons. You wouldn’t be the first to marry outside the Church then marry in the Church. Maybe you and your spouse have discovered in your marriage a desire to return to the Church, after you had been away from the Church for a time. Maybe you had a pressing and dire need for a civil marriage - as did a close friend of mine was married to his wife by a JOP while he was thought to be on his deathbed (thank God he recovered, they later married in the Church and I was his best man). The point is, just because you are married outside the Church doesn’t automatically mean you’re in grave sin, especially as you’re approaching coming fully into the Church.

I think the ecclesial question is:
Can you receive the Sacrament of Matrimony before you receive Confirmation? I think the answer is yes, but (as others have noted) talk to your priest about what needs to be done. It may very well be that Confirmation is simple enough to perform so might as well do it and be done. I’d especially think that, if your priest is concerned about you and your spouse not having what is called a “valid” marriage in the Church (that is, you are married civilly but not Sacramentally), he would not require you to be confirmed before being married if that would mean delaying the Sacrament of Matrimony further.

You are not in the wrong to abstain from receiving the Sacrament of Communion at this time. I do hope you are able to have an active prayer life and seek the Lord in Spiritual communion while you await full participation in the life of the Church once again. Welcome back, dear one.

This advise is OK for an Evangelical, but not for a Catholic, just to have a civil wedding and not a Church wedding is living in sin, please don’t give advise to a Catholic as I wont give advice to an Evangelical because its the wrong advice of the Catholic Church. If you want to become a Roman Catholic you are welcome at anytime to do so and go to RCIA instruction which will give you a better understanding on our teachings not reformation teachings.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Also note that Losh’s comment on it not being cohabitation if you are legally married is not in accordance with the Catholic understanding of marriage.

Just reread my comment, realized that this sounds overly brief and harsh. I just have to add that it is, as Losh says, absolutely true that you aren’t the first and won’t be the last to start our in an irregular marriage situation, and it is absolutely wonderful that you’re getting it fixed. In no way do I want to take away from that or insult either you, Losh, or this sentiment. Nevertheless, Catholics who marry outside the Church are not (yet) validly married.

 

[glendab]

Hello Kilotsi.

Hi, Brethren,
Please I am a baptised catholic who has not yet receive the sacrament of confession and presently not going for Holy Comminion because living in irregular marriage (only legalised but not known in Church) with a baptised and confirmed catholic spouse who is equally not taking Holy Communion for same reason. I have two major worries as regards our situation.
1)Given our situation can we each go for confession during this period of Lent?
2) As we are preparing to get married in Church, is it possible that I receive confirmation before the wedding or on the other way can I take the confirmation on a separate occasion after the church marriage? This is because I have read that the Parish Priest can through the authorisation of the Bishop give confirmation to one or both couples on the wedding day in Church whereas I would prefer to receive both sacraments separately.
please do advice accordingly, I am worried about this situation everyday I go for mass especailly during communion time when I start reflecting on my not going for it. Thanks much.

You seem very confused. Please make an appointment for you and your intended spouse at the Rectory nearest you. If you are sincere in your desires, the priest will do all he can to help the two of you. It will probably begin with Confession for each of you, but you’ll probably need to live under separate roofs until the happy day.

Glenda

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Hi, Brethren,
Please I am a baptised catholic who has not yet receive the sacrament of confession and presently not going for Holy Comminion because living in irregular marriage (only legalised but not known in Church) with a baptised and confirmed catholic spouse who is equally not taking Holy Communion for same reason. I have two major worries as regards our situation.
1)Given our situation can we each go for confession during this period of Lent?
2) As we are preparing to get married in Church, is it possible that I receive confirmation before the wedding or on the other way can I take the confirmation on a separate occasion after the church marriage? This is because I have read that the Parish Priest can through the authorisation of the Bishop give confirmation to one or both couples on the wedding day in Church whereas I would prefer to receive both sacraments separately.
please do advice accordingly, I am worried about this situation everyday I go for mass especailly during communion time when I start reflecting on my not going for it. Thanks much.

You need to speak to your parish priest. I assume that at the present time you are living strictly as brother and sister. Your pastor may, indeed should, demand that you live as brother and sister for a period of time before admitting you to the sacraments. However, that is my personal opion and I don’t know all the " ropes " in a situation like yours. But I encourage you to be courageous and do what is required. And remember, it is God you have to be honest with.

Linus2nd

 

[losh14]

This advise is OK for an Evangelical, but not for a Catholic,

I’m sorry this isn’t immediately clear. I am Catholic. I take my description from a program of the New Evangelization out of the Diocese of Madison (evangelicalcatholic.org/), and it’s also the title from George Wiegel’s 2013 book. I know some Lutherans also use the term, which adds to the confusion. When I joined these forums there were Traditionalist Catholics, SSPX Catholics, Roman Catholics, Eastern Catholics, Latin Rite Catholics, Maronite Catholics, Doubting Catholics, and Totally Catholics. I tossed my modifier in as well.

just to have a civil wedding and not a Church wedding is living in sin,

On face, yes, it is always sinful for two practicing Catholics to have a civil wedding when both otherwise could validly participate in a Sacramental wedding. The expectation - totally reasonable - is that a couple who belongs to a parish should marry in the parish and that there’s not (normally) a reason for going outside the parish to marry, so doing so is on its face sinful. That’s normal - my buddy’s deathbed civil marriage wouldn’t be held as sinful.

So when I gave my advice, I spoke out of charity. We don’t know all the details of the OP’s situation. If a baptized Catholic is not a practicing Catholic at the time of marriage, and they marry outside the Church, do we still consider that marriage to be invalid? We wouldn’t assess the same of a marriage contracted by two non-Catholics who later enter the Church. For the sake of charity, that’s where I consider the OP to be coming from, someone who is returning to the Church, and that strikes me as likely since the OP self-references being baptized, but not practicing, and notes that Confirmation was never received.

That said, Confession remains open to all Catholics, and for that matter I think a priest would even hear a Confession from a non-Catholic, since the mission of forgiveness is for all who sin. Likewise, Confirmation should also be open to the OP, as should Sacramental Marriage. The priest would know the best order of it, or even if the order mattered. As I think back to my friends who have married non-Catholics, most of their spouses have been confirmed before marriage, but some married mid-RCIA and some also married before RCIA. I think the complicating factor here is that the OP was baptized Catholic, but again we don’t know the circumstances of OP not being confirmed and so, out of charity, I assume it wasn’t due to something sinful on the OP’s part, ie rebellion against Church teaching and refusing to be Confirmed in the eighth grade.

Whatever circumstance has brought the OP to the happy state of coming fully into the Church and receiving the Sacraments, the OP is right to abstain from Communion in recognition of needing to come into that fullness of Sacramental Grace.

Does any of this seem incorrect?

 

[losh14]

Let me step back from the OP’s specific situation and consider how the Church often tempers justice with Mercy. Justice demands obedience to the Law of God, Mercy allows humanity - and all of us sinners - to approach God.

Consider the situation of a married couple desiring to enter the Catholic church. Both were baptized in the Catholic church as children but raised in other churches. They grew up in another church, married in the other church, brought their kids to Sunday School in the other church. Now, after much prayer and discernment, they feel drawn to worship the Lord in the Catholic Church and go to their first RCIA.

They have three children, the husband works while the wife stays home. The husband has had a vasectomy. Imagine yourselves the RCIA director telling this couple what has been written here:

Hello Kilotsi.
you’ll probably need to live under separate roofs until the happy day.
Glenda

Catholics who marry outside the Church are not (yet) validly married.

I assume that at the present time you are living strictly as brother and sister. Your pastor may, indeed should, demand that you live as brother and sister for a period of time before admitting you to the sacraments.

Goodness, it sounds like this couple, who sincerely desires to enter RCIA, needs to go through the motions of getting a divorce - separate roofs, abstain from marital relations - in order to be married in the Church! I can see the circumstance in which justice would demand such a requirement - for example, two young adults, who attend the same parish with their parents, under whose roofs they still live, but who marry in secret in a civil ceremony. Or even two older adults, who for all practical purposes are living in accord with Catholic teaching, who decide on a whim to run away to Vegas and marry.

I think we ought to be extraordinarily careful in applying such a requirement to a marriage that is celebrated outside the Church. Mercy should reign here.

Let’s consider Canon Law, for a moment:
Canon 1060 Marriage enjoys the favour of law. Consequently, in doubt the validity of a marriage must be upheld until the contrary is proven.
Canon 1061.3 An invalid marriage is said to be putative if it has been celebrated in good faith by at least one party.
Canon 1061.2 If the spouses have lived together after the celebration of their marriage, consummation is presumed until the contrary is proven.

So the spouses in my example have a putative, consummated marriage. Canon 1061.1 notes that marriage is ordered towards this end. What should they, in their putatively-valid marriage, do?

Canon 1151 Spouses have the obligation and the right to maintain their common conjugal life, unless a lawful reason excuses them.

The Church would not smile upon this couple coming into the church but announcing a divorce; nor should the Church require them to separate households. If it were me and my family going through RCIA and the priest asked us to live as brother sister, or for me to move out while my wife tended our kids (when we’ve been living as husband and wife for 15 years), I’d ask if he could perform the wedding tomorrow just so our family wouldn’t fall apart.

Hopefully, my priest is well-versed and he talks about something called “radical sanation” as one solution:

catholic.com/quickquestions/what-can-i-do-about-my-invalid-marriage

 

[glendab]

.Goodness, it sounds like this couple, who sincerely desires to enter RCIA, needs to go through the motions of getting a divorce - separate roofs, abstain from marital relations - in order to be married in the Church! I can see the circumstance in which justice would demand such a requirement - for example, two young adults, who attend the same parish with their parents, under whose roofs they still live, but who marry in secret in a civil ceremony. Or even two older adults, who for all practical purposes are living in accord with Catholic teaching, who decide on a whim to run away to Vegas and marry.

I think we ought to be extraordinarily careful in applying such a requirement to a marriage that is celebrated outside the Church. Mercy should reign here.
the spouses in my example have a putative, consummated marriage.

Canon 1151 Spouses have the obligation and the right to maintain their common conjugal life, unless a lawful reason excuses them.

The Church would not smile upon this couple coming into the church but announcing a divorce; nor should the Church require them to separate households. If it were me and my family going through RCIA and the priest asked us to live as brother sister, or for me to move out while my wife tended our kids (when we’ve been living as husband and wife for 15 years), I’d ask if he could perform the wedding tomorrow just so our family wouldn’t fall apart.

Hopefully, my priest is well-versed and he talks about something called “radical sanation” as one solution:

catholic.com/quickquestions/what-can-i-do-about-my-invalid-marriage

Did you know that a radical sanation can only come from a Bishop or maybe even the Holy See?

Here’s the facts:

RADICAL SANATION

Can. 1161 §1. The radical sanation of an invalid marriage is its convalidation without the renewal of consent, which is **granted by competent authority and entails the dispensation **from an impediment, if there is one, and from canonical form, if it was not observed, and the retroactivity of canonical effects.

§2. Convalidation occurs at the moment of the granting of the favor. Retroactivity, however, is understood to extend to the moment of the celebration of the marriage unless other provision is expressly made.

§3. A radical sanation is not to be granted unless it is probable that the parties wish to persevere in conjugal life.

Can. 1162 §1. A marriage cannot be radically sanated if consent is lacking in either or both of the parties, whether the consent was lacking from the beginning or, though present in the beginning, was revoked afterwards.

§2. If this consent was indeed lacking from the beginning but was given afterwards, the sanation can be granted from the moment the consent was given.

Can. 1163 §1. A marriage which is invalid because of an impediment or a defect of legitimate form can be sanated provided that the consent of each party perseveres.

§2. A marriage which is invalid because of an impediment of natural law or of divine positive law can be sanated only after the impediment has ceased.

Can. 1164 A sanation can be granted validly even if either or both of the parties do not know of it; nevertheless, **it is not to be granted except for a grave cause.**Can. 1165 §1. The Apostolic See can grant a radical sanation.

§2. **The diocesan bishop can grant a radical sanation **in individual cases even if there are several reasons for nullity in the same marriage, after the conditions mentioned in ⇒ can. 1125 for the sanation of a mixed marriage have been fulfilled. **He cannot grant one, however, if there is an impediment whose dispensation is reserved to the Apostolic See **according to the norm of ⇒ can. 1078, §2, or if it concerns an impediment of natural law or divine positive law which has now ceased.

There ya go. The first step in all of this is for the both of them to go to the Rectory and talk to their priest. Then all the details can be sorted through. Details such as this: were each of them free to marry when they met and began their current marriage? Is this there first marriage or even attempt at marriage? If not are their children from another marriage? Were they both intending marriage when they began their relationship? What methods of contraception did they use if any and when did they agree to begin their use? Was that before they began dating, after they began dating, when they got serious about marriage? Or did they agree to marry only if one party agreed to used contraception? Do they use it now? Are they will to or have they already given it up? Are they willing to be open to life? What about raising their children Catholic? Have nay children been made aware of their sudden interest in religion? have they been Baptized in another faith or exposed to one?

I could think of a few dozen other questions all that need answering BEFORE sacraments can be given. And I will repeat myself - the first place to go for all of it is to the Rectory for an appointment with the Priest. They’ve been doing it wrong for a while now. They don’t need anymore help in doing it wrong. They got that part right, pun intended. NOW they need help in getting it right with God. I sincerely hope they can find a Jesuit to ask all the right questions.

Glenda

P.S. This takes time and work for all parties.

 

[Lapey]

Hi, Brethren,
Please I am a baptised catholic who has not yet receive the sacrament of confession and presently not going for Holy Comminion because living in irregular marriage (only legalised but not known in Church) with a baptised and confirmed catholic spouse who is equally not taking Holy Communion for same reason. I have two major worries as regards our situation.
1)Given our situation can we each go for confession during this period of Lent?
2) As we are preparing to get married in Church, is it possible that I receive confirmation before the wedding or on the other way can I take the confirmation on a separate occasion after the church marriage? This is because I have read that the Parish Priest can through the authorisation of the Bishop give confirmation to one or both couples on the wedding day in Church whereas I would prefer to receive both sacraments separately.
please do advice accordingly, I am worried about this situation everyday I go for mass especailly during communion time when I start reflecting on my not going for it. Thanks much.

You’ve already received tge best and only advice you need. Go meet with your pastor. There are many factors that need to be expkored and possibly rectified.

 

[Lapey]

I assume you’re talking with your priest since you are preparing to get married.

(1) You can always go to Confession. There is absolutely nothing ever that keeps a sinner (all of us) from receiving that Sacrament.

A sinner, “all of us” as you put it, must be Catholic to receive the sacrament of reconciliation. A non-Catholic cannot validly receive reconciliation because the Church nor Her ministers have authority over non-Catholics.

(2) If you are legitimately married in a civil marriage, it’s not cohabitation. You are also seeking to convalidate your civil marriage by celebrating the Sacrament of Matrimony. In general it is best to marry in the Church, but I wont’ ask you your reasons. You wouldn’t be the first to marry outside the Church then marry in the Church. Maybe you and your spouse have discovered in your marriage a desire to return to the Church, after you had been away from the Church for a time. Maybe you had a pressing and dire need for a civil marriage - as did a close friend of mine was married to his wife by a JOP while he was thought to be on his deathbed (thank God he recovered, they later married in the Church and I was his best man). The point is, just because you are married outside the Church doesn’t automatically mean you’re in grave sin, especially as you’re approaching coming fully into the Church.

A Catholic cannot be in a “legitimate” civil marriage, unless you are speaking only of the legal contract of marriage. In a Catholic sense, a Catholic can only be legitimately married within the guidelines of Mother Church. It’s not only “best”, it is required to be married in the Catholic Church if a person is Catholic.

In the scenario you site here, what would be the “dire need” to make it okay and valid for a Catholic couple to choose the JOP? If the parties involved are Catholic then yes it is an automatic that the marriage is invalid and can place the souls involved in mortal sin. This is lack of form and if there are marital relations there is grave sin because in the eyes of the Church there is no marriage, it is basically cohabitation. Furthermore, I would ask; if your friend was on his/her death bed, why would you support them moving into something which is against Catholic teaching and detrimental to their soul? At death, what matters, rights on earth or truth from God for the health of our immortal souls? Our opinions won’t get us to the Kingdom of Heaven, God’s truth will. This can be found in His Church not in civil law.

I think the ecclesial question is:
Can you receive the Sacrament of Matrimony before you receive Confirmation? I think the answer is yes, but (as others have noted) talk to your priest about what needs to be done. It may very well be that Confirmation is simple enough to perform so might as well do it and be done. I’d especially think that, if your priest is concerned about you and your spouse not having what is called a “valid” marriage in the Church (that is, you are married civilly but not Sacramentally), he would not require you to be confirmed before being married if that would mean delaying the Sacrament of Matrimony further.

You do not know this. A pastor may delay the marriage until the people involved are properly formed and have received the sacraments. There are too many “ifs”. Are there children involved? Can they live separately until the situation is rectified? Can the two live as brother and sister with a promise between them and the pastor? My pastor tends to insist that the people receive the validation, sacramental marriage, then they would receive the remaining sacraments; but I have seen it both ways.

You are not in the wrong to abstain from receiving the Sacrament of Communion at this time. I do hope you are able to have an active prayer life and seek the Lord in Spiritual communion while you await full participation in the life of the Church once again. Welcome back, dear one.

We can agree completely here!

 

[Lapey]

On face, yes, it is always sinful for two practicing Catholics to have a civil wedding when both otherwise could validly participate in a Sacramental wedding. The expectation - totally reasonable - is that a couple who belongs to a parish should marry in the parish and that there’s not (normally) a reason for going outside the parish to marry, so doing so is on its face sinful. That’s normal - my buddy’s deathbed civil marriage wouldn’t be held as sinful.

Your buddy’s marriage, if the couple or at least one of them were Catholic was not a sacramental marriage and yes, sinful. It’s quite simple, Catholics must adhere to Church teaching and law. They must be married in the Church, by a Church minister in good standing or receive dispensation to be married outside of the Church and also dispensation would be needed to be married by a minister other than a Catholic; with the understanding a Catholic minister must witness the marriage for it to be valid.

So when I gave my advice, I spoke out of charity. We don’t know all the details of the OP’s situation. If a baptized Catholic is not a practicing Catholic at the time of marriage, and they marry outside the Church, do we still consider that marriage to be invalid? We wouldn’t assess the same of a marriage contracted by two non-Catholics who later enter the Church. For the sake of charity, that’s where I consider the OP to be coming from, someone who is returning to the Church, and that strikes me as likely since the OP self-references being baptized, but not practicing, and notes that Confirmation was never received.

Yes, it is invalid. Two non-Catholics do not fall under Canon Law or the authority of Mother Church, so why would we consider them in violation of Church doctrine and teachings? Please look at Canon #1; “The canons of this Code regard only the Latin Church.”

The Church does not have the authority to proclaim non-Catholics marriages to be invalid, which is why non-Catholics who move into the Church need to seek annulments in the same way Catholics would for failed marriages. The biggest difference is that the Catholics who marry outside of the proper form would be called a “form annulment”; they marriage lacks form.

Even though the Op is returning and has been a “fallen away” Catholic when they were married civilly, they are still catholic and subject to Church authority and law. Their marriage is invalid due to lack of form. Married civilly, yes but not sacramentally; in the eyes of the Church for Catholics only the latter matters.

Another point of correction, charity is not supporting a brother or sister in sin, it is to charitably correct and lovingly lead them to truth.

That said, Confession remains open to all Catholics, and for that matter I think a priest would even hear a Confession from a non-Catholic, since the mission of forgiveness is for all who sin. Likewise, Confirmation should also be open to the OP, as should Sacramental Marriage. The priest would know the best order of it, or even if the order mattered. As I think back to my friends who have married non-Catholics, most of their spouses have been confirmed before marriage, but some married mid-RCIA and some also married before RCIA. I think the complicating factor here is that the OP was baptized Catholic, but again we don’t know the circumstances of OP not being confirmed and so, out of charity, I assume it wasn’t due to something sinful on the OP’s part, ie rebellion against Church teaching and refusing to be Confirmed in the eighth grade.

Again, non-Catholics can meet with a priest and possibly divulge sin, but a non-Catholic cannot receive the sacrament of reconciliation. Once a person is received into the Church then yes, but not before.

Whatever circumstance has brought the OP to the happy state of coming fully into the Church and receiving the Sacraments, the OP is right to abstain from Communion in recognition of needing to come into that fullness of Sacramental Grace.

Does any of this seem incorrect?

I think you see where we disagree. I too applaud the OP for making an attempt to enter fully back into the sacramental life of the Church. Our way of helping is giving truthful advice and not opinions and guesses. Go to your pastor for truth!

 

[Lapey]

Let me step back from the OP’s specific situation and consider how the Church often tempers justice with Mercy. Justice demands obedience to the Law of God, Mercy allows humanity - and all of us sinners - to approach God.

Consider the situation of a married couple desiring to enter the Catholic church. Both were baptized in the Catholic church as children but raised in other churches. They grew up in another church, married in the other church, brought their kids to Sunday School in the other church. Now, after much prayer and discernment, they feel drawn to worship the Lord in the Catholic Church and go to their first RCIA.

They have three children, the husband works while the wife stays home. The husband has had a vasectomy. Imagine yourselves the RCIA director telling this couple what has been written here:

Goodness, it sounds like this couple, who sincerely desires to enter RCIA, needs to go through the motions of getting a divorce - separate roofs, abstain from marital relations - in order to be married in the Church! I can see the circumstance in which justice would demand such a requirement - for example, two young adults, who attend the same parish with their parents, under whose roofs they still live, but who marry in secret in a civil ceremony. Or even two older adults, who for all practical purposes are living in accord with Catholic teaching, who decide on a whim to run away to Vegas and marry.

I think we ought to be extraordinarily careful in applying such a requirement to a marriage that is celebrated outside the Church. Mercy should reign here.

Let’s consider Canon Law, for a moment:
Canon 1060 Marriage enjoys the favour of law. Consequently, in doubt the validity of a marriage must be upheld until the contrary is proven.
Canon 1061.3 An invalid marriage is said to be putative if it has been celebrated in good faith by at least one party.
Canon 1061.2 If the spouses have lived together after the celebration of their marriage, consummation is presumed until the contrary is proven.

So the spouses in my example have a putative, consummated marriage. Canon 1061.1 notes that marriage is ordered towards this end. What should they, in their putatively-valid marriage, do?

Canon 1151 Spouses have the obligation and the right to maintain their common conjugal life, unless a lawful reason excuses them.

The Church would not smile upon this couple coming into the church but announcing a divorce; nor should the Church require them to separate households. If it were me and my family going through RCIA and the priest asked us to live as brother sister, or for me to move out while my wife tended our kids (when we’ve been living as husband and wife for 15 years), I’d ask if he could perform the wedding tomorrow just so our family wouldn’t fall apart.

Hopefully, my priest is well-versed and he talks about something called “radical sanation” as one solution:

catholic.com/quickquestions/what-can-i-do-about-my-invalid-marriage

There is so much in this post that just makes me wonder where your coming from. First off, your understanding of mercy and justice is skewed. Mercy is not securing someone in a sinful situation. It is sharing truth with love and compassion. Justice is for God.

Second, no one is telling a civilly married couple with children and a vasectomy to divorce and live separately. You are jumping to conclusions. There is always pastoral care given to families who approach to re-unite with the Church. that is just hyperbole on your part.

Third, you are completely misusing the canon law. Canon law has no jurisdiction over civil law. A Catholic couple who marries civilly and not sacramentally have no marriage rights under canon law. Your whole argument in this area is off base. In each instance where the canons speak the word “marriage”, it is speaking of the sacrament of matrimony, not civil marriage.

furthermore, a legal right to sexual relations and continuing to lave as married has no role in the fact that a person may be in mortal sin or not. Sexual relations is only, and I repeat only, good and right ordered within sacramental marriage. When non sacramental married Catholics come to the pearly gates, how far will the statement, “well we followed our legal rights” go with our judge? Nope, not very far.

I sincerely applaud your want to help and your compassion for people in this sense, but it would be prudent to learn the truth and then try to help. Remember what St. Paul told us today in the second reading;

“Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh; on the contrary, you are in the spirit, if only the Spirit of God dwells in you.”

I preached on this in our parish this weekend. Having God’s Spirit within us gives us many gifts and also great burdens. We must strive to live in the Spirit and that my friend means living as God tells us within Church teaching.

 

[losh14]

I’m just going to drop this. Not worth it anymore.

 

[Phemie]

You brought up “putative” marriage.

Both the OP and his wife are baptized Catholic. The moment they were baptized they became subject to Canon Law.

A Catholic’s marriage is only putative if it was it was celebrated according to canonical form or if there was a dispensation from canonical form. Here there is neither so they are not in a putative marriage, they are in an invalid marriage.