Can a Homosexual become a Heterosexual?

[chrysostim83]

Exactly right as usual, Dakota.

To go on a bit in the same vein, it must be possible to distinguish different sorts of love by more than their object. Otherwise no one would be able to see a difference between the love they have for their friends and the love they have for their siblings; they wouldn’t even be able to see the difference between the love a man has for a sister and the (chaste) love her fiance might have for her!

Hopefully everything is starting to make sense. If someone says what distinguishes gay people is the sort of love they tend to experience for members of their own sex, it is a non sequitur (given where we’ve gotten to) to object that a man can love his brother without being gay. The objects are the same, as far as biological sex goes, but the types of love are totally different.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

He was not.

If not then there is no emotion that one orientation can have than any other.

The exact same ingredients combined in different ways can yield different things. So too can different quantities of the same ingredients yield something else.

Now, you are claiming there is a different emotion that homosexuals experience that other orientations do not. You cannot have it both ways.

Also how exactly does one explain an ecstatic experience?

With the words “ecstatic experience”

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Exactly right as usual, Dakota.

To go on a bit in the same vein, it must be possible to distinguish different sorts of love by more than their object.

From what you have been saying about emotions, love is disparate before application to an object. Remember all that stuff about philia, eros etc?

 

[razredge]

In answer to the OP:

Who knows? No one is doing much research into it, most scientists and academics seem content to perpetuate the myth that homosexuality is as normal as heterosexuality, so there is no real impetus to do so.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

If not then there is no emotion that one orientation can have than any other.
Now, you are claiming there is a different emotion that homosexuals experience that other orientations do not. You cannot have it both ways.
With the words “ecstatic experience”

emotions are the ingredients not the product

I realized I was gay through an ecstatic experience

 

[bluelake]

If you do not desire sex with someone of the same gender, then you are not sexually attracted to them. Hence, you are not a homosexual. If you are attracted to them in a nonsexual manner, then you just like them in the same manner that everyone else likes their friends.
Any culture that doesn’t allow the murder of children in the womb is better than ours. As disgusting as the practices in Afghanistan may be, abortion is illegal. At least those who are victimized survive in that culture. Here if an abortion doctor molested a child he would rightly spend decades in prison. If he brutally dissects and murders children as they are born he is a hero fighting for the rights of women with each execution. Which culture do you think is superior? How about ours, or the Nazi’s? Which is superior? The one that murdered 6 million mostly adult humans, or the one that has murdered 50 to 60 million innocent defenseless children? Do you think we are somehow better than the Nazis were? How about the Rwandans? They murdered only a fraction of the number of Tutsi’s that we do children. Do you think we are better than them? Maybe our culture isn’t quite so superior as you propose.
I didn’t ask you what the Churches position was. Which BTW isn’t quite correct. They don’t claim to know the cause or to be able to exclude any cause. I asked you why you believed one orientation is a mental illness while others aren’t. Clearly, until the LGBT lobby attacked the psychiatric board responsible for its inclusion in the DVSM, the mainstream medical community believed it was. As I posted, the very people involved admit it was a guerrilla political action and not a change in the actual scientific analysis unrelated to political pressure. So what possible justification can you have for your double standard?
As I do not think you are a Pashtun or an ancient Israelite, your claim that there activities undermine their cultures doesn’t seem to have any basis in reality. The fact is that they functioned just fine regardless of their particular orientations.
Rimshot!
What does that have to do with equal protection under the law? Crazy people have rights too.
In my mind Woody’s and Soon-Yi’s relationship is absolutely incestuous. However, they are only a conveniently famous example. take any other instance of it in the world if it makes any difference to you.So it would be OK if the biological parent didn’t raise the child? Or never met them? You can keep making ridiculous excuses for your double standards but you are clearly doing exactly what you accused me of. Making extremely imprudent statements that may lead people to believe that Catholics hate members of those groups.
Please, show me the CC demonstrating this.

Homosexuality is a sin. (Rom1:24-32. 1Tim.1:10: Lev.18:22)If you read this you will find a number of other sins listed as well. The choice is ours.
God doesn’t drag anyone kicking and screaming into heaven. You either walk with him and pray about your weaknesses everyday, or do things your way.
God gives us the choie. How much do you love him? He died for our sins.

God bless,
bluelake

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Homosexuality is a sin. (Rom1:24-32. 1Tim.1:10: Lev.18:22)If you read this you will find a number of other sins listed as well. The choice is ours.
God doesn’t drag anyone kicking and screaming into heaven. You either walk with him and pray about your weaknesses everyday, or do things your way.
God gives us the choie. How much do you love him? He died for our sins.

God bless,
bluelake

Homosexual acts≠homosexuality

 

[bluelake]

There was a program on “Focus on the Family” by James Dobsin which is a protestant program on regular Christian radio a couple years ago. They were interviewing several people who were homosexual and then had a conversion and drew closer to Jesus. They were convicted that their same sex behavior was sin. With lots of prayer, they did change their life and start desiring a relationship with the opposite sex.

It sounded like they had to first admit they were not created that way. They came to the realization it was a decision. And we can decide to follow Christ and all things are possible.

God does not create homosexuals. this is a sin that they choose , not God.
If you think the Lord operates in this fashion your not reading the Bible.
Does God create theives, killers, and such? of course not. the Lord wants all to be saved by grace. (Eph.2:8-9)
It seems homosexuals are the only sinners who try to comfort themselves with this lie, “God made me this way.” if anyone decides to become a shoplifter, is that God’s fault or ours?

lets pray about this.
bluleake

 

[warpspeedpetey]

emotions are the ingredients not the product

You are either experiencing emotions other orientations can experience, or you are claiming to experience emotions other orientations cannot.

I realized I was gay through an ecstatic experience

tmi

 

[razredge]

God does not create homosexuals

Yes, God does not create anyone, period (at least not directly) - He doesn’t make you black, white, ugly, pretty, fat, smart, stupid, deaf, blind, disabled etc.

So the argument that God creates homosexuals does not fly (even if it were true that people are born gay).

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Homosexual acts≠homosexuality

That’s the question isn’t it? If there is more to being gay than sex as you claim, then there must be a quality which is not shared by other orientations and is not sexual in nature. You have had days to demonstrate to us such quality yet you have not been able too. It seems like the truth is that there really isn’t anything more to being gay than sex. You may not want to admit that conclusion, but I don’t see any real chance of being offered such quality and if you did have one, I suspect you would have mentioned it immediately.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

God does not create homosexuals. this is a sin that they choose , not God.
If you think the Lord operates in this fashion your not reading the Bible.
Does God create theives, killers, and such? of course not. the Lord wants all to be saved by grace. (Eph.2:8-9)
It seems homosexuals are the only sinners who try to comfort themselves with this lie, “God made me this way.” if anyone decides to become a shoplifter, is that God’s fault or ours?

lets pray about this.
bluleake

"CCC:

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

You are either experiencing emotions other orientations can experience, or you are claiming to experience emotions other orientations cannot.
tmi

The former, however the product that is formed is distinct. As with many things the product must be sublimated, purified before it is good. To attempt to use the product in it’s raw state is very bad.

I’m neither talking about drugs nor sex, I’m talking about a religious experience

Yes, God does not create anyone, period (at least not directly) - He doesn’t make you black, white, ugly, pretty, fat, smart, stupid, deaf, blind, disabled etc.

So the argument that God creates homosexuals does not fly (even if it were true that people are born gay).

There are people born with same sex attraction, they ultimately choose to act on it or not.

That’s the question isn’t it? If there is more to being gay than sex as you claim, then there must be a quality which is not shared by other orientations and is not sexual in nature. You have had days to demonstrate to us such quality yet you have not been able too. It seems like the truth is that there really isn’t anything more to being gay than sex. You may not want to admit that conclusion, but I don’t see any real chance of being offered such quality and if you did have one, I suspect you would have mentioned it immediately.

Homosexuality has to do with homosexual inclination, the homosexual inclination inclines one to engage in homosexual acts. Ultimately they choose to act on the inclination or not

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Homosexuality has to do with homosexual inclination, the homosexual inclination inclines one to engage in homosexual acts. Ultimately they choose to act on the inclination or not

Sexual attraction has to do with sex, and the claim was that there is more to being gay then sex. This seems to be admitting that the claim is false. Is that the case?

 

[Tyler1234]

I feel that everyone is born heterosexual, and that some, due to one reason or another, stray from this. At that point, they can either continue on their homosexual path, or through prayer and reconnection with Jesus, revert back to heterosexuality.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Sexual attraction has to do with sex, and the claim was that there is more to being gay then sex. This seems to be admitting that the claim is false. Is that the case?

I said that “has to do with homosexual inclination” not that it is only homosexual inclination.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

You should read *The Friend *by Alan Bray, in addition to proving that gay marriage didn’t exist in the Middle Ages it also documented same sex relationships, which didn’t have to do with sex (SSA has always existed, but “homosexuality” is a modern concept).

 

[warpspeedpetey]

I said that “has to do with homosexual inclination” not that it is only homosexual inclination.

…How do you know you are homosexually inclined? If it isn’t sexual then it is either an emotion that all the other orientations can experience, or you are claiming that homosexuals are capable of having emotions no one else is.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

You should read *The Friend *by Alan Bray, in addition to proving that gay marriage didn’t exist in the Middle Ages it also documented same sex relationships, which didn’t have to do with sex (SSA has always existed, but “homosexuality” is a modern concept).

What do you think this has to do with the subject?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

…How do you know you are homosexually inclined? If it isn’t sexual then it is either an emotion that all the other orientations can experience, or you are claiming that homosexuals are capable of having emotions no one else is.

That’s a very limited understanding of psychology

What do you think this has to do with the subject?

Well, if the only distinguisher between homosexuality and heterosexuality is sex with the same sex then we should not have relationships that Alan Bray documented since they don’t involve sex. The only way for those kind of relationships to form would have to be that there is some factor other than sex with the same sex. You’ll just have to read the book to understand.

 

[speakttruth]

What part of the claims debunked have anything to do with this? The claims were that there is some quality to being gay apart from sex, and the other was about the hypocrisy of being tolerant of one alternative lifestyles but not others. I am not sure how you believe this statement applies to that.
Since we aren’t discussing any Church teachings that is obviously a false claim.

We welcome people of diverse viewpoints here, it saddens me to see such intolerance.
The truth or falsity of the claims made are not of a nature that opinion can solve it. One is a logic problem the other is an issue of tolerance. If you think something from those sources changes the outcome of the claims, then feel free to post it.

I am not intolerant of you being on here. I just see a lot of people who may be gay activists on here and I want to remind people that this is a Catholic site for people to learn about our faith or Catholics to know about their faith. You seemed very angry. I apologize if you were offended. Maybe I am not sure what you are even arguing about. It’s over my head and I am not sure what the point is anymore.
God Bless