Can a man and a woman "just be friends?"

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itullian said:
Without a romantic entanglement developing?

I say no. One or the other is gonna eventually get smitten. :love:

I know with me, if I was friends with a girl I was still looking for a way to get her to like me more or she was doing the same
and sooner or later one likes the other more or they :love: :yup:

So if you have an opposite sex friend-------watch out, if you’re not after them, they’re after you. :yup:

What say you?

ps----same with gays, only same sex friends instead.
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I’m trying to stay off CA, but I had to peak in.

No, I wouldn’t say it is inevitable. I would say it something to always be aware of. You cannot afford to get complacent. Never say “it could never happen.” That is really foolish. You can be solidly and unquestionably “just friends” since 1st grade and and have always felt “ew, that would be like incest!”, and the “smitten” thing could still turn up when least expected. Not only are some people really slow to appreciate what is in front of them, but on the less-flattering side people respond to all sorts of conflicts elsewhere in their lives by going out and “falling in love” and imagining that the other problem will go away if they can just obtain the object of their desires. IOW, if your “friend” decides to “fall in love” with you, it isn’t always about you. It may be that he’s just mistaken about how to best cure some inner misery that has nothing to do with you.

Rather, if you are married or vowed to celibacy, you always have to be on the lookout that your friendships are positive things for your marriage or your religious vocation. If they’re not, either the friendship (or the marriage or the religious life) needs adjustments. I would say it is always the friendship that needs to give (or even be cut off), but that is only if there is no unhealthy control thing going on in the marriage or even an emotional strain in the individual that’s not being addressed.

If the precipitating cause of the “romance” is really a problem in the marriage or some inner emotional issue in the “smitten”, then any person of the opposite sex is liable to bring up the same root problem and the same foolish stab at relief. That doesn’t mean that you won’t be forced to put some distance in the friendship until the root problem is dealt with–that is only prudent–but that when you’re unhappy enough to be a person walking around looking for someone to “fall in love” with and solve your problems, simply getting rid of all of your opposite-sex friends won’t remove that danger. You still have to address the underlying issue. Get rid of them, and it could be someone you meet at the bus stop, someone who doesn’t know you well enough or care enough about you to say, “What is going on with you?”. To remove this particular threat to chastity, you have to go to the root of what the real emptiness is that you’re trying to fill.

If you and your friends all have an emptiness and you all think you just need to get married in order to fill it, then yes, you’re going to be constantly “falling” for each other. This is a very common way to deal with the discomfort of having left your parents’ home (and having needed to), but not having your own family yet.

Anyway, I have to stay off, so that’s all I get to say on that.
 
Yes I have many guys friends with and no romantic feelings were ever involved in either side.
 
Of course. About half of my close friends are ladies, and while they are all attractive, funny, and clever, I wouldn’t think twice about dating them. Obviously, I don’t behave with them in the same ways I’d behave with my guy mates, but I don’t see my lady friends as more than friends.
 
It is possible. If there is no attraction it is easier. If there is an attraction, it is more difficult, but if you look at them as a complete human being, you can stay just friends.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
So, by your logic, people that are attracted to both men & women should have no friends al all? 🤷:rolleyes:
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Good point.

I’m a woman.

I have a friend who thought she was a lesbian for a while. I didn’t stop being friends with her. She’s married now. We’re still friends.

I have male friends, quite a few of them. In my teens, I tried dating two boys I was friends with. When we tried to kiss, it was bizarre. It felt like kissing a brother. We didn’t stop being friends.

It is more than possible to have a non-sexual relationship with a person you could theoretically have a sexual relationship with.
 
EasterJoy wrote:
No, I wouldn’t say it is inevitable. I would say it something to always be aware of. You cannot afford to get complacent.
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I agree with this totally. This is coming from someone is female, but tends to be more comfortable around men due to having interests (such as sports) that tend to be male-dominated. When I was younger I totally admit I tended to be naive about how some of my male friends saw me, there were also some self-esteem issues where I just didn’t see myself as desirable. Many a time I was completely oblivious that a guy liked me as more as a friend, then later on I’d realize “oh I guess he must have had a crush on me”. I remember one male friend suddenly made a move on me physically, shortly after we ran into his ex-girlfriend while we were “hanging out”. I was shocked and appalled. But looking back, I realized that I missed a lot of signs that this guy was likely attracted to me for a while before that. That being said, not every male friend wound up crushing on me, either, including my best male friend who I’ve known for years.

And as I have mentioned before, this got to me even more of an issue once I got to the age where many of my peers are now married or at least in long-term serious relationships. I used to think I’d never be “that kind of woman” who’d dare get involved with a married man, and while I never actually dated a married man, I got very close once, much too close for comfort, to the point that the only way I could handle it is to cut off all contact with him. That experience sure made me more cautious about how I handle friendships with men, not just married ones. I don’t think it means platonic friendships are impossible, even if there is some physical attraction going on. While I don’t really buy into the “courtship” model for myself, I do like the emphasis on getting to know someone as your “sister” or “brother” in Christ before embarking on any obviously romantic ventures.
 
I think you implied more than you said
If one held romntic thoughts for the other, that is a unique problem
However, men and women can be friends if they keep the right boundaries.
My father had the rule of not being alone in the house with a female friend or relative. When I was young it seemd kinda square but makes more sense now that I’m older.
itullian said:
Without a romantic entanglement developing?

I say no. One or the other is gonna eventually get smitten. :love:

I know with me, if I was friends with a girl I was still looking for a way to get her to like me more or she was doing the same
and sooner or later one likes the other more or they :love: :yup:

So if you have an opposite sex friend-------watch out, if you’re not after them, they’re after you. :yup:

What say you?

ps----same with gays, only same sex friends instead.
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I’m going to say, it’s difficult. It’s problematic. Between males and females, there is always going to be a certain amount of sexual tension. And friendship can easily change into more, on one or the other person’s part. How often is it that both parties are 100% happy in a married relationship, that neither person brings problems with the spouse into that friendship, that there is NO physical attraction whatsoever between a male and a female friend?

I just have a really hard time imagining how this would work. If both were happily married, maybe. But then, what would that mean to the spouses? It’s just weird, IMO.
 
Well, it can just be friends. Sure can, I’m in love with TheRealJuliane ❤️, but she’s loyal to her marriage, so we are only friends, ya see?
 
Guy here. I say yes, absolutely. I’m in a VERY happy 23 year marriage. Both my wife and I have friends of both sexes. One of my best friends, happens to be another friend of mines wife. We talk, text, Facebook go places with our kids etc. I see nothing wrong with it, nor does my wife, and frankly, don’t understand why anyone would.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
I’m going to say, it’s difficult. It’s problematic. Between males and females, there is always going to be a certain amount of sexual tension.
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I have had plenty of female friends with no sexual tension. As a teenager as well. :rolleyes:
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Between males and females, there is always going to be a certain amount of sexual tension.
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Not always. One of my very best guy friends is an example. The day I met him, there was a noticable lack of any sort of sexual tension. He also asked if he could leave work early one day because “I just love the theatre and there is a performance of [insert musical name here] that evening.” So I thought - that explains it! He must be gay.

Not so much. Before long he started talking about his girlfriend, and how much he looked forward to proposing to her and having children with her. I saw some pictures of the two of them on Facebook kissing with such tenderness. So he’s definitely straight.

It might be interesting to know that in certain more liberal countries (I’m thinking of Sweden, but my friend was South African), men and women more commonly really DO view each other as equals. You will occasionally hear that women prefer American men because they find the sexual tension exciting, whereas men in their own country treat them like friends.
 
The more I think about, the more and more ridiculous this idea sounds.

How in the heck would one avoid making any friends of the opposite gender?

First of all, most hobbies and recreational activities are not segregated by gender.

But let’s give it the benefit of the doubt and say that you found some hobbies or recreational activities which involve only people of your gender. Like, say, certain sports.

So now you have made a bunch of friends of the same gender. Great. Those people will, invariably, have love interests that they will bring around. Plus siblings, cousins or even opposite gender friends of their own.

So here I am, as a guy, playing baseball with other guys. I befriend some of those guys, and we go out for dinner, or drinks. Or we have a birthday party for one of the guys, and so on. I’m going to be meeting and interacting with women at all of these activities. So what do I do, pretend like they don’t exist? Say ‘hello’ but make sure that 95% of my conversation is focused towards the other guys only? (Rude much?) How could I possibly keep myself from forming any friendships in that situation?

So let’s say you lock yourself away. You don’t have any kind of social life, besides being with your family. You’re going to have to insist that those family members don’t bring around opposite gender friends to family activities… not even parties… lest a friendship develops accidentally. Even in this case it might be impossible to avoid forming opposite-gender relationships.

But let’s say somehow, some way, you’re able to pull this off. Congratulations, you have a very strong willpower to resist friendship as if it’s a disease.

Yet even in this case, do you work? You’re going to have to either A) work from home 100% of the time, B) find a gender-segregated workplace, or C) never let a professional relationship become friendly.

Option A is highly unlikely. It is possible for a very limited set of people. I did it for awhile myself, but it was tough to keep up. It’s also tough to earn good pay this way. Again, I know some people do, but this is definitely tough to pull off. It becomes even more difficult if either 1) the other spouse doesn’t work (which most trad Catholics here seem to support) and 2) if you have children in Catholic school (which many trad Catholics also support).

Option B is even more unlikely than A, so far as I can tell. I can’t really think of a gender-segregated workplace besides being a Monk or some of the occupations which may be gender-segregated by chance (like a mechanic’s shop.) Pickings are very, very, very slim.

Option C is probably the most do-able of all, but can still be tough, as it’s really dependent on what kind of work you do. Many people spend a good deal of time with their co-workers and often they share an interest (same profession). They will know at least a little bit about each other’s lives and chances are they will have to interact on a daily basis with opposite-gendered co-workers. It’s quite difficult to meet an amiable person, interact with them every day and not develop a platonic friendship of some degree or another.

But let’s say you have pulled all of this off. Somehow, some way, you manage to avoid friendship with anyone of the opposite gender. Despite all of the odds, you have done it.

At that point, my concern shifts from “how are you going to do it?” to “is it worth it?” In order to get to this point, you’ve sacrificed much in the way of human contact. The value of friendship and companionship is unmeasurable. Though we recognize the importance of the family, let us not forget all of the joy, relief from stress, comfort from pain, opportunities for good works and many other things that friendship offers us. Why shut that out?

In short, I think the only and I repeat only reason to avoid all opposite gender friendships is if you have a raging sex addiction, one so strong that any opposite gender friendship becomes a serious occasion for mortal sin. I would suggest that such cases are highly unusual and in such cases, you need to be getting counseling long before you even think of taking a step like this.
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AthenaC:
It might be interesting to know that in certain more liberal countries (I’m thinking of Sweden, but my friend was South African), men and women more commonly really DO view each other as equals. You will occasionally hear that women prefer American men because they find the sexual tension exciting, whereas men in their own country treat them like friends.
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Yes, it’s embarrassing, but we do seem to have a lot of work to do on the gender equality front in the States.
 
Yes, they can, married 11 yrs and both my hubby and I have male and female friends, most in the professional business scene. But be mindful of any hints, changes, suggestions of a romantic or sexual nature and avoid situations that could provide temptation (alone with a friend, awareness of any physical attraction, etc). We’re human after all. :o
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
In short, I think the only and I repeat only reason to avoid all opposite gender friendships is if you have a raging sex addiction, one so strong that any opposite gender friendship becomes a serious occasion for mortal sin. I would suggest that such cases are highly unusual and in such cases, you need to be getting counseling long before you even think of taking a step like this.
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I agree. It does appear to be at least partly a cultural thing - to what extent men are culturally expected to view every female person as a potential sexual mate and treat them accordingly (flirt, comment on appearance, notice physical features) in a particular culture seems to correlate with the amount of sexual tension that will exist.

It does seem to be connected with the general attitude towards women - are they equal persons one can do things with, discuss issues with, have normal conversations with? Or only potential sexual mates?
 
One of my best friends is a male and has been that way for many years. We do love each other but not in a romantic sense nor do we get involved in any sexual activity. Yes, we may show some affection but nothing out of the ordinary besides hugs & perhaps holding hands sometimes. He is one of a few people I trust completely to talk about certain things in confidence also.
 
As usual, I think the problen here is largely one of poorly understood definitions and many here are using the word friends quite loosely to include acquaintences.

If you define as “friend” anybody you’d let into your Facebook circle (or whatever its called), then of COURSE men and women can be friends. But if you define “friend” as someone you confide in, tell your hopes and dreams to, share your frustrations with and ask for help when you need it, I’m in the NO WAY category.

I’ve got lots of female friends. But I’d never go out for dinner with any of them when my wife is out of town or go over to one of their homes by myself, etc.

Mock me all you want, but the statistics on adultery speak for themselves. The ones most at risk are the ones who think it could never happen to THEM. It’s all about drawing your line far enough away from the cliff. Stay 5 feet off the edge and you’ll never lose your balance. As a guy who can’t stand pro sports and endless (meaningless) related statistics, it ain’t easy making guy friends. But it’s worth it to safeguard my marriage.
 
manualman said:
But if you define “friend” as someone you confide in, tell your hopes and dreams to, share your frustrations with and ask for help when you need it, I’m in the NO WAY category.

I’ve got lots of female friends. But I’d never go out for dinner with any of them when my wife is out of town or go over to one of their homes by myself, etc.
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Two of my four best friends that I confide in, tell my hopes and dreams to, share my frustrations with and ask for help when I need it are men - the other two are women. I sometimes see them at home with my husband present (he is friends with them too - but they’re not *his *best friends - he has his own) and I sometimes see them outside of the home - not when my husband is out of town, mind you (who’d watch the kids?)

My four best friends are very different personalities - two are artistic and devout Christians (one Orthodox, one Catholic), one is politically minded and Jewish, and one is a very scientifically minded but also poetic agnostic. I relate to them a bit differently based on these personal differences. It had never even occurred to me to divide them by their sex. In fact, with the men I talk about relationships more.
 
PatriceA said:
No, not naive. Mature and in a good marriage. I have friends of the opposite gender and so does my husband.

You can speak for yourself and your experience. But in my life, a man and a woman just being friends works.
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👍
 
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