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Baelor
Guest
I am happy that you consider the issue resolved.
- Status
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hurting
Guest
Well said. While it is entirely possible that persons of the opposite sex can be friends, there is definitely a difference when one or both of the parties is married as opposed to both being single. Even in the latter case there is very much an issue of near occasion of sin.
The question should be - is it a good idea? For married persons I sincerely doubt that it ever is.
O
Oneofthewomen
Guest
This thread just keeps getting more & more bizzare! :hypno:
I am really concerned that there are adults who actually believe that men & women (or people of the same sex who are homosexual) cannot be friends without falling into “near occaision of sin”.
That is the most poposterous thing I have ever heard!
I have been married for over 20 years, and yes, my husband is my “best friend”.
That does not mean though, that I can/would talk to him about everything that is going on in my life. Sometimes, I just need to talk, that is how I work things out.
And sometimes, my husband cannot help me with that. He wants to “fix” things, because he loves me and he doesn’t want to see me hurting, and sometimes things just can’t be fixed. Sometimes, I need a male perspective, and since I have no brothers, and my father, grandfathers & uncles have all passed on, what am I to do?
I have many male friends, actually most of my friends are men.
There has never been any “sexual tension” between us, my husband trusts me, and I trust myself.
Friendship, true friendship, is a wonderful gift from God, that should never be denied because of gender.
Remember, even Jesus had female friends!! (Remember hearing about Mary & Martha?!)
I am really concerned that there are adults who actually believe that men & women (or people of the same sex who are homosexual) cannot be friends without falling into “near occaision of sin”.
That is the most poposterous thing I have ever heard!
I have been married for over 20 years, and yes, my husband is my “best friend”.
That does not mean though, that I can/would talk to him about everything that is going on in my life. Sometimes, I just need to talk, that is how I work things out.
And sometimes, my husband cannot help me with that. He wants to “fix” things, because he loves me and he doesn’t want to see me hurting, and sometimes things just can’t be fixed. Sometimes, I need a male perspective, and since I have no brothers, and my father, grandfathers & uncles have all passed on, what am I to do?
I have many male friends, actually most of my friends are men.
There has never been any “sexual tension” between us, my husband trusts me, and I trust myself.
Friendship, true friendship, is a wonderful gift from God, that should never be denied because of gender.
Remember, even Jesus had female friends!! (Remember hearing about Mary & Martha?!)
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EasterJoy
Guest
Actually, it works out very well for my husband and me, but we had lots of truly platonic opposite-sex friendships before we ever met. When you know the two of them never got anything going back when they could have and when you know you’re always welcome to join them when they go out for lunch, it isn’t the same as if your husband were to come home raving about how you ought to dress like so and so and you ought to try to make this recipe like so and so cooks, and he starts dressing differently when she’ll be there, and so on.
IOW, there are friends, and there are friends.
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Litcrit
Guest
I hope you do agree that those who are unable to go grocery shopping without succumbing to temptation to buy - or STEAL - unhealthy foods should not be telling everyone else that no one should ever be grocery shopping because it’s a near occasion of sin.
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EasterJoy
Guest
What’s with the caps?
Grocery shopping is a bit too necessary for that analogy to work. Households need somebody to buy the groceries, but a married person does not literally have a need for unchaperoned companionship with unrelated members of the opposite sex. You can find true benefits, but it is hard to demonstrate that the same benefits cannot be obtained in other ways. (Remember, we’re not talking about friends whose friendship is enjoyed only with one’s spouse is present, but a friendship that *doesn’t *always have spouses present.)
There are people who won’t let highly processed foods into their house, and they get fairly evangelistic about it. If you try to tell them about all the emotional health benefits they’re missing out on and that the sweetness in fruits is not enough for a normal person, I don’t think you’re going to get very far. That is the boundary that some people believe in. The Church doesn’t teach anything that strict and a boundary that is too tight presents its own dangers; that is about all you can say to them.
Besides, there is a point at which the analogy breaks down in comparing foods that should only be enjoyed by some people and in moderation and emotional relationships between unmarried and unrelated members of the opposite sex. People are not Cheetos or Ben & Jerry’s, and emotional infidelity, unlike the decision to buy something “naughty” out of the bakery case, is something that can happen very gradually, with serious and irreversible consequences.
Do not get me wrong; I think that it goes too far to say that friendships of this kind are so dangerous that they are inherently wrong. I have friendships like this myself, and so does my husband. I’m just not willing to say that someone who believes the rule that people are wise to share all friends of the opposite sex fully with their spouse is totally off the mark. If my husband and I had that rule, I would miss out on some very nice conversations and friendships, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. If my husband felt that way but wasn’t controlling about my friendships in other respects, I’d be willing to observe that boundary for his sake.
Speaking of boundaries, I think this thread proves I am incapble of “just one post”!
:sad_bye:
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Baelor
Guest
I think that the question to be answered is whether one should have to explore other ways that may be fulfilling in the same way the friendship in question is. The only answer being provided is that being alone (even in public) with a friend of the opposite sex is necessarily a near occasion of sin, but no justification for this statement has been provided.
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fbl9
Guest
Wonder what the neigbours would think of this friendship. There is nothing that is comparable to being some one’s friend. A near occasion of sin is just that a near occasion. Unnescessary placing one’s self into a place of temptation becomes a sin when this postion leads one to sin.If having this friendship, as a true friendship, aids you it becomes nescessary. Being honest with yourself and one will know when this friendship ,if it ever could have, becomes a temptation.
Maturity of persons invovled does not nescessary mean that attraction will not develope.
Personally my younger life style never offered much of an opportunity for intamite relationship with a girl. Yes i knew girls as friends but not as confidants/co-conspirciers.
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EasterJoy
Guest
I think they’re saying that their experience says this is so, and so that’s their justification, which is fine for drawing one’s own boundaries. My experience says that sometimes it is not a problem, but that I don’t think it is wise to take that for granted. Maybe there is nothing there today, maybe if this was the only member of the opposite sex left then we’d be quite certain the race would die out with us, but we do have to recognize that we’re not dead yet, particularly when we’re talking about a member of the opposite sex for whom we have some measure of natural affection. If the friendship is important to you, you guard it from having to be eliminated entirely. Kind of like having a house near Yellowstone. Love the bears, but don’t feed them grapes off of your back deck. They’re still bears, even after you get to know them.
Honestly, I think that Catholics who advocate for everyone warning against all friendships between men and women are a little like the Fundamentalists who believe that a good Christian will observe total temperance with regards to alcohol or someone who thinks that either the people or the bears really need to be cleared out of Yellowstone Park. For some particular people (and some particular bears) yes, but we don’t all have that particular weakness. Being prudent doesn’t mean believing that you can ever eliminate every temptation to sin, nor that you ought to try. Sanctity doesn’t happen that way.
Anyway, I really do have to get out of this thread and observe some temperance of my own. I’ll be keeping my male friends, but within boundaries. What I’m going to do about my “CA habit” is the real question!!
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I_am_Iron_Man
Guest
Yes, but God made us so that we are always attracted to the opposite sex, though that doesn’t mean that we can’t just be good friends with someone.
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Bobby_Jim
Guest
Well my experience is thus:
There are girls whom I considered friends, and there were girls whom I considered friends but wished for more, even if I was either too shy to say so, or was “waiting it out” for them to break up with the current boyfriend and then magically notice me, who had been there all the time (reminds me of that song… “the search is over… you were with me all the while”)
Anyway, I found that as long as there was the one female friend after whom I pined, I could have nice friendships with other girls. I occasionally had confused thoughts, occasionally drifting into a “more than friendship” type interest, but not usually in a disruptive way. But I didn’t always take these friendships too seriously, because in the back of my mind was always the other for whom I pined.
Looking back, I think this arrangement was unhealthy - the unattainable other was a form of security blanket that kept me from entering into closer relationships with anyone; the pain or self-pity of forever being lovelorn became a lens through which I viewed the world, clouding my perspective a deeper shade of grey, such that I came to value the pain; the self-pity itself became my companion and my interior monologue.
As the years went by - eventually I think God clubbed me over the head or something, and I met someone, we “courted”, and are now married. In that process I found that she is now my best friend as well as my spouse, and I have very much pulled back (with some intention) from friendships with other women. I don’t seek to enter close friendships with women, and I keep at more distance some women with whom I used to be closer friends. Part of that is driven by geographic distance, as we moved to a different part of the country for a job, but upon relocating I didn’t go out of my way to build a new network of female friends. Seems like a natural way to do things now.
There are girls whom I considered friends, and there were girls whom I considered friends but wished for more, even if I was either too shy to say so, or was “waiting it out” for them to break up with the current boyfriend and then magically notice me, who had been there all the time (reminds me of that song… “the search is over… you were with me all the while”)
Anyway, I found that as long as there was the one female friend after whom I pined, I could have nice friendships with other girls. I occasionally had confused thoughts, occasionally drifting into a “more than friendship” type interest, but not usually in a disruptive way. But I didn’t always take these friendships too seriously, because in the back of my mind was always the other for whom I pined.
Looking back, I think this arrangement was unhealthy - the unattainable other was a form of security blanket that kept me from entering into closer relationships with anyone; the pain or self-pity of forever being lovelorn became a lens through which I viewed the world, clouding my perspective a deeper shade of grey, such that I came to value the pain; the self-pity itself became my companion and my interior monologue.
As the years went by - eventually I think God clubbed me over the head or something, and I met someone, we “courted”, and are now married. In that process I found that she is now my best friend as well as my spouse, and I have very much pulled back (with some intention) from friendships with other women. I don’t seek to enter close friendships with women, and I keep at more distance some women with whom I used to be closer friends. Part of that is driven by geographic distance, as we moved to a different part of the country for a job, but upon relocating I didn’t go out of my way to build a new network of female friends. Seems like a natural way to do things now.
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Gordon_Sims
Guest
I’m one of those who believe that a man and a woman can be just friends. I tend to make friends with people with whom I have something in common. The more shared interests, the more easily it is to befriend them. I tend not to take their gender into consideration; however, as my interests tend to steer away from some of the more stereotypical “guy” things (I’m about as interested in sports as I am in Russian opera), I tend to make friends with women easier than with men (I tend to spend hours talking to my best friend’s wife when she answers, as opposed to 20-30 minutes tops talking to him when he gets to the phone first). I don’t consider any of them anything other than friends, and don’t turn to them instead of my wife in any way, shape or form. I don’t see any problem with the idea of me going out to lunch or dinner with one of them, although most of them are more casual friends and not the sort I’d call up to meet me for a meal. There’s very few circumstances where I’d see myself meeting up with any of them without my wife for any reason, but for the one or two with whom I’d ever go out to lunch/dinner without my wife, she’d see absolutely nothing wrong with it.
That being said, I believe there are some people for whom purely platonic opposite sex friendships are an impossibility. I have one friend who mistakes every single act of anything-less-than-rudeness from a female as a come-on (when the cashier at Wal-Mart asked him to write his phone number on his out-of-state check, he was sure that meant she wanted him to come back the next day and ask her out (turns out she was a lesbian, just like every other one of the hundreds and hundreds of women who have ever shot him down)). I have another friend who would be the first to tell you that men and women absolutely can be friends. In fact, he has lots of very close female friends with whom he goes out to lunch, dinner and drinking all the time. The last time I went out with him and one of these friends came along, she was extremely touch-feely with every guy there, drank most of them under the table, and tried to make out with half of us before the night was over. While I shouldn’t jump to any conclusions about my friend, I came up with some very definite conclusions about his friend (to this day they don’t invite us over if she’s going to be there, not because of anything I said, but because of how angry she got when I refused her advances–and, no, I don’t know why they’re still friends with her). Although these two and several others I know may not ever cheat on their significant others, I can’t say that I’d ever feel entirely comfortable with the notion of them spending much alone time with someone of the opposite sex.
That being said, I believe there are some people for whom purely platonic opposite sex friendships are an impossibility. I have one friend who mistakes every single act of anything-less-than-rudeness from a female as a come-on (when the cashier at Wal-Mart asked him to write his phone number on his out-of-state check, he was sure that meant she wanted him to come back the next day and ask her out (turns out she was a lesbian, just like every other one of the hundreds and hundreds of women who have ever shot him down
)). I have another friend who would be the first to tell you that men and women absolutely can be friends. In fact, he has lots of very close female friends with whom he goes out to lunch, dinner and drinking all the time. The last time I went out with him and one of these friends came along, she was extremely touch-feely with every guy there, drank most of them under the table, and tried to make out with half of us before the night was over. While I shouldn’t jump to any conclusions about my friend, I came up with some very definite conclusions about his friend (to this day they don’t invite us over if she’s going to be there, not because of anything I said, but because of how angry she got when I refused her advances–and, no, I don’t know why they’re still friends with her). Although these two and several others I know may not ever cheat on their significant others, I can’t say that I’d ever feel entirely comfortable with the notion of them spending much alone time with someone of the opposite sex.
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Et_Cetera
Guest
It can be done, but it does get difficult at times.
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Poetpeace
Guest
Yes, I know far too much about a few of my close male friends to ever consider them more than that. However I cannot say the same for him-
I think its down to age and relationship status : for example if I had a met my friend whilst I was in a relationship and not single, it would be different. There would be no temptation for him and none for me. However since we are both single and have been for the time we’ve known each other, he has shown signs (whether intentional or not ) of jealousy if I have dates.
So, to me its down to relationship status of both friends as to whether they can just remain friends.
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Crescentinus
Guest
Being stuck in the proverbial “friend zone” is depressing to the extreme.
C
CaseyDeAnn
Guest
It is absurd to believe that a man and woman cannot be friends without being interested in one another romantically/sexually. Sure, the thought at some point crosses their minds, but that’s usually when they first meet and decide whether or not they’re attracted at all to the other. Of course in some cases an attractive develops, but that’s irrelevant. I’ve had many, many close male friends in the past who were never attracted to/interested in me in any way other than a close friendship. And I’m not hideous, I might add, in case that comes to mind. And don’t say I just wasn’t aware that they probably had feelings for me. They didn’t.Without a romantic entanglement developing?
I say no. One or the other is gonna eventually get smitten.
I know with me, if I was friends with a girl I was still looking for a way to get her to like me more or she was doing the same
and sooner or later one likes the other more or they:yup:
So if you have an opposite sex friend-------watch out, if you’re not after them, they’re after you. :yup:
What say you?
ps----same with gays, only same sex friends instead.
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quettandil
Guest
Are not our lives meant to be preparation for Heaven, where (we have it on the best authority) there are no sexual relationships, but there is no lack of love?
T
THP
Guest
I tend to agree with Manualman. There are acquaintances and friends. My wife is really the only lasting friend that I have. I have numerous people I golf with, go to drink or events with but they are all men.
Let’s say your wife is out of town for several days visiting her mom. Would it be OK to hang out with a really good female friend who you known for years and share your innermost secrets with? Just the two of you at your house for dinner? I say no. A male friend of the same level; I think its fine.
I think its certainly possible but you need to be careful with boundaries if you are married.
Let’s say your wife is out of town for several days visiting her mom. Would it be OK to hang out with a really good female friend who you known for years and share your innermost secrets with? Just the two of you at your house for dinner? I say no. A male friend of the same level; I think its fine.
I think its certainly possible but you need to be careful with boundaries if you are married.
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itullian
Guest
i think thou ist being naive…
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johndelacruz
Guest
Has the asker of this question ever heard of St. Francis and St. Clare of Assisi?
If not, look them up - their relationship can serve as a sort of model of godly and chaste male/female friendships.
You are emblematic of our over-sexualized culture - you really need to expand your study to get beyond your very limited and distorted view of friendship and human sexuality.
I think you believe all people in the world are like you and your friends - but this world is a much bigger and richer place than what you suppose.
If not, look them up - their relationship can serve as a sort of model of godly and chaste male/female friendships.
You are emblematic of our over-sexualized culture - you really need to expand your study to get beyond your very limited and distorted view of friendship and human sexuality.
I think you believe all people in the world are like you and your friends - but this world is a much bigger and richer place than what you suppose.
- Status