Can a man and a woman "just be friends?"

[HonoraDominum]

Speaking as a woman, I will say this: If the man isn’t attracted to the woman, then they can be friends. But all men are attracted to all women, right? Um, no. Take this as a truth from a woman who graduated high school a size 16 and has been “big” her entire adult life. Virtually every one of my male friendships started with me having a crush on him in some shape or form. Some, like my best friend Michael, I truly attempted to date and utterly failed, but fell back on the great friendship that had formed. Others friendships started as a hidden crush, but once the crush faded the friendship was left over. Those are the best.

Oh, but how can a man not be attracted to a woman and yet want to spend time with her? Well, when a woman has a crush on a man, she goes out of her way to fawn on him, bakes him cookies, gets him small “Thinking of You” token gifts, does things for him, and is generally a huge ego boost. Very few people will turn down companionship that is heavily in their favor, especially if there’s good conversation in the mix. And here’s the beautiful part of it - when a boy doesn’t like a girl “that way”, they are completely, COMPLETELY oblivious to the crush if there’s a real friendship there. On multiple occasions, I’ve revealed the crush after the fact to have the boy go, “Really? I never got that vibe.”

Also, my husband was always one of those kind of guys who had all girls for friends, and I was always the kind of girls who had all guys for friends. So he definitely gets it.

Now that I’m married, I do play things a bit differently. I think the trick is that we have our friends, but we don’t go do “date” things with them. I may have dinner with Michael, but it’s not at a romantic Italian bistro, and it doesn’t involve more than 1-2 cocktails. And I buy my own dinner. I have a male friend right now that I only see at church, and I’d never do anything outside of that parameter because as a married woman it would simply be inappropriate, even if it would never be sinful. My husband is good friends with his boss (a woman), and they spend more time together than other co-workers do at our company. However, he always keeps me in the loop of where they are and when he’ll be home and how to get a hold of him and what he’s doing. She and I get along well, so it works out well. We just went to dinner with her and her husband on Monday night.

 

[Litcrit]

Because we share common experiences and perspectives. That is a strong friendship bond, and probably what makes a good friendship…

My good male - and female - friends share common experiences and perspectives with me. I really fail to see how this relates to biological sex.

Could it be a question of stereotypical gender? Men who are only into sports and cars hang out with other men, and women who are into makeup and fashion hang out with other women? And those of us interested in literature, myth, politics, culture, religion and other “neutral” subjects don’t even really notice the sex of our friends?

Oh, but how can a man not be attracted to a woman and yet want to spend time with her?

I realize this was a joke, but the fact that such a joke can be made is very sad indeed.

 

[Moore11]

My good male - and female - friends share common experiences and perspectives with me. I really fail to see how this relates to biological sex.

Could it be a question of stereotypical gender? Men who are only into sports and cars hang out with other men, and women who are into makeup and fashion hang out with other women? And those of us interested in literature, myth, politics, culture, religion and other “neutral” subjects don’t even really notice the sex of our friends?

I realize this was a joke, but the fact that such a joke can be made is very sad indeed.

Of course they can share common experiences. And they can be friends. All I was saying was that it isn’t the case for me. I suppose if a woman could write her name in the snow with better handwriting than me and spit farther, then she would make a fine friend. I am into sports AND politics literature and many other things. But my male friends and I have a special bond, we help with marital issues, sympathize with each other with fathering issues and are comrades. I would find it odd if another woman and I were discussing marital, family and sex issues as I do with my male friends. It is you who seem to be using stereotypes to see things.
While it sure is possible, there are many many broken families who had opposite sex friendships play a part.
I know several divorce lawyers who joke that Facebook is the single biggest boon to their pocketbooks.

 

[Moore11]

That is fine. My statement was about capability, not about actuality.

Then you and I are in 100 percent agreement. In terms of capability you are correct, but in speaking in terms of prudence and practice it would seem that it is the exception, not the rule. But has some have pointed out on this thread, it is entirely possible to be married, or whatever and have a platonic friendship. I’m sure many priests considered Mother Theresa a friend.

 

[Litcrit]

But my male friends and I have a special bond, we help with marital issues, sympathize with each other with fathering issues and are comrades. I would find it odd if another woman and I were discussing marital, family and sex issues as I do with my male friends.

This is truly the case for my male friend and myself as well. In fact, I can only be this close to and open with those female friends who do not see themselves as some stereotypical representatives of the female gender because I cannot discuss marital and family issues with women who take an “us vs. them” approach that many women (and I suppose men too - but I haven’t encountered it personally as much) do.

“Oh, those men, they’re so useless/lazy/inept” - there are far too many women only too ready to say this. I prefer talking to men about my husband - they seem to be better able to appreciate and respect him like I do.

 

[Moore11]

This is truly the case for my male friend and myself as well. In fact, I can only be this close to and open with those female friends who do not see themselves as some stereotypical representatives of the female gender because I cannot discuss marital and family issues with women who take an “us vs. them” approach that many women (and I suppose men too - but I haven’t encountered it personally as much) do.

“Oh, those men, they’re so useless/lazy/inept” - there are far too many women only too ready to say this. I prefer talking to men about my husband - they seem to be better able to appreciate and respect him like I do.

ooohhh be careful, be very careful.

 

[Baelor]

Then you and I are in 100 percent agreement. In terms of capability you are correct, but in speaking in terms of prudence and practice it would seem that it is the exception, not the rule.

That is not what I said. If prudence and practice would dictate that you should not do it, clearly capability is in doubt.

 

[Litcrit]

ooohhh be careful, be very careful.

Can we for once have rational arguments instead of irrational scaremongering on this thread?

I’ve been with my husband for 12 years, married for 7.

I’ve known and been close with my two best male friends for 10 years. Another very close male friend and I go back to high school days, since we were 15.

Exactly when is all this horrible, sinful, sexual, unspeakable stuff that’s lurking right beneath the surface going to break out and explode in our faces? When we’re in an old folks’ home?

 

[Crescentinus]

noms popcorn while waiting for someone to answer my question about being friend-zoned

 

[LSK]

Yes.

I am a woman. I am a widow. I am attractive. I have many friends, both male and female, and have no problem with maintaining a loving and proper relationship with my male friends. If someone has that problem, my heart goes out to them but the question was can a man and a woman just be friends and my answer, based on personal experience of many, many years, is yes.

 

[Moore11]

That is not what I said. If prudence and practice would dictate that you should not do it, clearly capability is in doubt.

Is it your assertion that in every case with every person that it is capable? Or just that for many and in a general way a man and a woman can be friends?

 

[Moore11]

Can we for once have rational arguments instead of irrational scaremongering on this thread?

I’ve been with my husband for 12 years, married for 7.

I’ve known and been close with my two best male friends for 10 years. Another very close male friend and I go back to high school days, since we were 15.

Exactly when is all this horrible, sinful, sexual, unspeakable stuff that’s lurking right beneath the surface going to break out and explode in our faces? When we’re in an old folks’ home?

No one is scaremongering. I think it quite prudent advice to be careful when confiding in an unrelated opposite sex when discussing marital and sexual issues. Period. seems like common sense to me not scaremongering. I’m not speaking to your situation because I have no knowledge of it but I would not offer the idea as prudent marital advice to a general population.

 

[EasterJoy]

ooohhh be careful, be very careful.

It is the rare friend with whom discussions of one’s marriage is a good idea, but when you find that friend, that is a precious friend, indeed. There are even priests who steer far away from listening to the marital troubles of those with whom they socialize!! There are all sorts of mine fields there, even when the friend is your own gender, so yes, it is good to be careful about how and with whom you discuss your marriage.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

No, not defensive at all.
Just pointing out the absurdity of the whole premise of the OP.
My question was rhetorical.
If you read any of my other posts in this thread, here, here, and here, you will see that I am quite confident in my position on this topic,
and FWIW my husband of over 20 years agrees with me!

A bit defensive, no? But since you seem to think you’ve gotten an unanswerable case, I suppose a response should be made. People who identify themselves as bisexual (or homosexual for that matter) have a profound problem with with sexuality IS. It should be no surprise that this condition causes other relationship problems. This is why such an inclination is described as a “disordered inclination” in church teaching.

Another point of clarification here is that many of us are posting from the point of view of married people. Single people have no reason NOT to develop deep friendships with single members of the opposite sex. If it turns into something more … GREAT! But marriage is a pledge to exclusive intimacy with the beloved. That spousal intimacy is not merely physical. Adultery doesn’t just happen one day. It starts via far more benign looking forms of intimacy that sneak up on the participants. If you think you are immune, … good luck.

 

[Neildown]

This is still being argued over?..

 

[Baelor]

Is it your assertion that in every case with every person that it is capable? Or just that for many and in a general way a man and a woman can be friends?

My statement was clear.

Baelor:

To each his own, but I could not consider healthy or well-adjusted an individual who is incapable of interacting with the opposite sex on a platonic basis, which itullian has essentially stated outright he is incapable of doing.

 

[itullian]

that’s right, blame it on poor ol Itullian.

you know in your heart my thesis is correct.

i’m just brave enough to admit it.

 

[Moore11]

My statement was clear.

Ok, But I guess I don’t understand where we disagreed then. For the sake of argument lets concede the idea that a healthy well adjusted person should be CAPABLE of friendship with the opposite sex. If that person discerns that it isn’t prudent to do so in their situation then they would still be well adjusted but just using prudence to decide that they may not have a friendship at this time. I think what I am saying is a huge number of married guys my age do not have woman friends. Are they maladjusted? I don’t think so. There has to be a reason that bowling night is so popular! I’m kidding of course I don’t bowl but do you get what I am trying to say? Or am I doing a bad job expressing myself?

In short terms The original title of the thread is Can but my point is that it probably should read “should”

 

[SRLAUREL]

If there’s no attraction, and they get on like buddies, or if they are professional acquaintances in the workplace, sure.

But if there’s attraction, then, No. It’s too dangerous, especially if either of them are married, ordained etc.

No offense intended but this is silly and makes it sound like human beings are merely driven by sex and are incapable of channeling urges, etc in order to love effectively as Christ loved. In fact men and women can be great friends. They must both be clear on what is allowed and where they will not go in this relationship and commit to loving within these limits. Sisters and priests or brothers often have amazing friendships — not because they don’t feel sexual urges sometimes but because they are clear on the limits of the relationship and the nature of the love that is healthy.

Vows of coinsecrated celibacy or celibate love are precisely that — commitments to love in a way which is not exclusive, does not allow genital expression, and reminds us of how Christ loved all persons. Every person is not called to vow celibate love but every person is certainly called to chastity. This does not mean avoiding situations that MIGHT involve sexual urges or romantic feelings but instead committing to love with integrity in spite of such feelings. (A situation that is a near occasion of sin is a different matter.)

I am really astonished that folks are tending to make sexual urges and romantic feelings more powerful than a commitment to integrity and Christ-like love. Is this simply a way to excuse one’s transgressions (“I couldn’t help myself!”)? Is it an ignorance of the nature of love or the fact that we are made for love even apart from sexual love? Whatever it is about it is a cynical and destructive approach to the human being’s capacity to love in Christ.

 

[Litcrit]

No one is scaremongering. I think it quite prudent advice to be careful when confiding in an unrelated opposite sex when discussing marital and sexual issues. Period. seems like common sense to me not scaremongering. I’m not speaking to your situation because I have no knowledge of it but I would not offer the idea as prudent marital advice to a general population.

It is the rare friend with whom discussions of one’s marriage is a good idea, but when you find that friend, that is a precious friend, indeed. There are even priests who steer far away from listening to the marital troubles of those with whom they socialize!! There are all sorts of mine fields there, even when the friend is your own gender, so yes, it is good to be careful about how and with whom you discuss your marriage.

Perhaps there was a misunderstanding here. I do not divulge intimate details of my marriage to anyone at all, their sex notwithstanding. I have no marital troubles to talk about to anyone, as I happen to be very happily married. I only noticed that this general sentiment, as well as the general sentiment of loving and respecting my husband, seems easier to share with my male friends, perhaps because they like and respect him too. Discussing marital issues in my case will refer to mentioning how my husband and I communicate, how we arrange our lives together, what he’s been up to lately (fishing, sports, music, that sort of thing), and matters of marriage and human sexuality in more general terms, as pertaining to religion or philosophy or whatnot.

In fact men and women can be great friends… every person is certainly called to chastity. This does not mean avoiding situations that MIGHT involve sexual urges or romantic feelings but instead committing to love with integrity in spite of such feelings. (A situation that is a near occasion of sin is a different matter.)

I am really astonished that folks are tending to make sexual urges and romantic feelings more powerful than a commitment to integrity and Christ-like love. … Whatever it is about it is a cynical and destructive approach to the human being’s capacity to love in Christ.

Thank you, Sister, for a beautiful voice of sanity and charity. We needed it.