Can a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Christian be a sacramental marriage?

[BornAgain11]

That’s not correct.

A Catholic can marry a non-baptized person in the Catholic Church if the Bishop grants a dispensation for “disparity of cult”. IOW, the Bishop gives his permission for the Catholic to marry someone who has different form of worship. The Church doesn’t force someone to be baptized unless they want to be. The Bishop might also grant a dispensation for ‘lack of canonical form’ giving the Catholic permission to marry in the non-baptized person’s Church. Both those dispensations would be requested by the priest who is preparing the couple and he would say what his reason(s) is for asking for the dispensation to be granted.

Hummm and why does the Bishop have such authority? Like I said my husband and I had to jump through hoops to get a dispensation so he could marry outside of the catholic church. The priest/bishop would NOT have done so without a certificate of baptisim. Sure he still could have married me just with out the churches “okay”. Gee that would be great to see “disparity of cult” after someones name who is a Chrisitan but who yet hasn’t made the commitment to Christ to be baptized. Mark 16:16

 

[msugeotech]

Yes, all 3 priests were wrong in this case.

Nope, 3 priests told me if I was not baptized my husband could not get a dispensation through the Catholic Church. Unless of course all 3 priests were wrong?

 

[BornAgain11]

Yes, all 3 priests were wrong in this case.

That is very humble of you to admit that! There are debates going on all over the forums saying that Priests can’t be wrong…I wonder if its a Minnesota Priest thing?

 

[BornAgain11]

Then they were functioning with their own agenda because the Church allows such marriages to occur. Such marriages are not rare since many of our parishioners marry members Salvation Army or Pentecostal Churches.

Well its easy for a Catholic to get married in a Non-Catholic Church. Its just harder the other way around…

 

[Phemie]

Is there a spot to read exactly what is said in the convaliation ceremony? I’d like to show my DH what he is in for.

Simply put, you’ll be getting married. You’ll speak your vows in exactly the same form as you would have spoken them if you’d done it in the Church first. As far as the Church is concerned, the moment you speak your vows your valid marriage starts.

 

[SMHW]

Hi Holly!
Well I can answer this one! I went through something similar! My husband (at the time) being catholic and I being a non-denom had to jump through a lot of hoops to get married in a church other than a Catholic one. He would yes have to be baptized as long as the Pastor baptizes in “the Father Son and Holy Spirit” it is consisdered okay by the Catholic Church and have a document and a signed paper. So-- no marriage can take place in a Catholic church unless he is baptized is what more than one priest told me.

Hi BornAgain11.

I’m not sure you answered the question that Holly3278 was asking.

Catholics can (within the laws of the Catholic Church) enter into marriage with other Catholics, with baptized non-Catholic Christians, and with unbaptized persons. The last two cases do require a legal dispensation from the usual laws. In your case it sounds like you also obtained a dispensation from the usual “form” in order to be married in a location other than a Catholic Church building. But you were still married “in the Church” since you abided by the laws of the Catholic Church.

The sacramentality of a marriage refers to the very nature of marriage between Christians. I presume you have learned a bit about the Catholic concept of a sacrament. I won’t go into that here but Catholics believe that Matrimony is actually a sacrament when two baptized Christians are validly married. Marriage can be just as valid when one or both parties are not baptized. But it can’t be sacramental.

Holly is contemplating marriage with an unbaptized man. With the proper dispensations she can get validly married “in the Catholic Church” but she will not have a sacramental marriage. It would be a “natural” marriage.

(If the unbaptized partner to a natural marriage is ever baptized the marriage will at that time become sacramental.)

 

[SMHW]

That is very humble of you to admit that! There are debates going on all over the forums saying that Priests can’t be wrong…I wonder if its a Minnesota Priest thing?

I wonder if the issue is that the laws do require Catholics to marry Catholics. It’s just that it is usually so easy to get a dispensation from the laws that for all practical purposes the law seems not to exist.

But when a Catholic marries a non-Catholic Christian, or particularly when a Catholic marries an unbaptized person (for purposes here an unbaptized person is considered non-Christian) the priest/bishop would be cautious about granting the dispensation if the marriage would be a danger to the Faith of the Catholic.

 

[Phemie]

Well its easy for a Catholic to get married in a Non-Catholic Church. Its just harder the other way around…

No, actually it isn’t. It’s easier to get a dispensation to marry a non-baptized than to get a dispensation to marry in a place other than the Catholic Church.

Perhaps the priests in your case didn’t want to celebrate a marriage to a non-baptized person, but there was nothing forbidding them from doing so as long as their bishop said “OK”.

 

[agapewolf]

Nope, 3 priests told me if I was not baptized my husband could not get a dispensation through the Catholic Church. Unless of course all 3 priests were wrong?! Also said if not baptized (in general) no marriage could take place in the catholic church—again told by all 3 priests. I have names in numbers if you want to call!

I just played a wedding last week where the guy was Catholic and the girl was non-baptized. And it was done in a Catholic church.

You are sorely misinformed, and I think its possible you misunderstood your priests.

The priests may have not wanted to let you get married if you werent’ baptized because they saw reason that it wasn’t a good idea in your particular case. Often people will hear something for their particular case and apply it as a general rule to everyone. Can’t be done that way. ORRR…they could have been saying that if you werent’ baptized, then it would not be a sacramental marriage in the Catholic church…which would be the truth.

Also, do not get offended by the term “disparity of cult” This is an official canon law term.in This case, it is used for the correct definition of “cult” - the group of the Catholic church…(NOT used in the secular definition of cult…a creepy brain-washing group).
Disparity of cult means a Catholic will marry someone who is not baptized.

 

[Phemie]

Hummm and why does the Bishop have such authority?

Because Canon Law grants it to him. It’s as simple as that.

Gee that would be great to see “disparity of cult” after someones name who is a Chrisitan but who yet hasn’t made the commitment to Christ to be baptized. Mark 16:16

“Cult” in church language simply means “a specific system of religious worship”. It’s doesn’t have the pejorative meaning as it does in contemporary speech.

 

[Just_Lurking]

I wonder if the issue is that the laws do require Catholics to marry Catholics. It’s just that it is usually so easy to get a dispensation from the laws that for all practical purposes the law seems not to exist.

Disparity of cult is one of the few (only?) places where canon law explicitly lists the conditions that are required for a dispensation, so as to ensure a degree of uniformity across all the different bishops.

Dispensation from canonical form is left to the complete discretion of the bishop.

 

[BornAgain11]

Hi BornAgain11.

I’m not sure you answered the question that Holly3278 was asking.

Catholics can (within the laws of the Catholic Church) enter into marriage with other Catholics, with baptized non-Catholic Christians, and with unbaptized persons. The last two cases do require a legal dispensation from the usual laws. In your case it sounds like you also obtained a dispensation from the usual “form” in order to be married in a location other than a Catholic Church building. But you were still married “in the Church” since you abided by the laws of the Catholic Church.

The sacramentality of a marriage refers to the very nature of marriage between Christians. I presume you have learned a bit about the Catholic concept of a sacrament. I won’t go into that here but Catholics believe that Matrimony is actually a sacrament when two baptized Christians are validly married. Marriage can be just as valid when one or both parties are not baptized. But it can’t be sacramental.

Holly is contemplating marriage with an unbaptized man. With the proper dispensations she can get validly married “in the Catholic Church” but she will not have a sacramental marriage. It would be a “natural” marriage.

(If the unbaptized partner to a natural marriage is ever baptized the marriage will at that time become sacramental.)

I understood her question! Thanks! I was told by Priests here in Minnesota that an unbaptized person can not get married in the Catholic Church plain and simple. Now if they were to get baptized Catholic or baptized as long as the words FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT durning baptisim were said they would be allowed marriage in the catholic church with of course a dispensation still needed. Just telling you what I was told. Actually looked over my notes again that I wrote during the meetings with the Priest.

 

[BornAgain11]

Disparity of cult is one of the few (only?) places where canon law explicitly lists the conditions that are required for a dispensation, so as to ensure a degree of uniformity across all the different bishops.

Dispensation from canonical form is left to the complete discretion of the bishop.

Tell me then why is it up to a bishop to decide on a dispensation or not!? When Jesus is our High Priest…hummmm.
“Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly
calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our
profession, Christ Jesus;”
Hebrews 3:1, KJV

Gal 2:11, Acts 17:11, Matthew 16:23

 

[SMHW]

Tell me then why is it up to a bishop to decide on a dispensation or not!? When Jesus is our High Priest…hummmm.
“Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly
calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our
profession, Christ Jesus;”
Hebrews 3:1, KJV

Gal 2:11, Acts 17:11, Matthew 16:23

I’m not sure why this is an issue for you. Canon Law and Liturgical law are legal systems like any others. And within these systems are means for certain individuals to grant dispensations for various aspects of the law. We are not saying that these laws are doctrinal. But we believe Jesus granted authority to his bishops (the Apostles and their successors) and that these bishops, in particular the chief bishop, the Pope, have the right to make rules to govern the Church.

Since the Church, acting through the bishops, (through the authority granted to her by Christ) set up Canon law it makes sense that the bishops would be the ones who can grant exceptions to Canon law.

I could see you, as a non-Catholic, rejecting the concept of Canon and Liturgical law but then why worry about who has the right to grant dispensations?

 

[Alindawyl]

Tell me then why is it up to a bishop to decide on a dispensation or not!? When Jesus is our High Priest…hummmm.
“Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly
calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our
profession, Christ Jesus;”
Hebrews 3:1, KJV

Gal 2:11, Acts 17:11, Matthew 16:23

Jesus is the High Priest, true. But the boss never leaves without appointing someone to mind the office until his return. He told us he was leaving, and he told us he would be back. Until then, he delegated authority to the Church to act on his behalf.

God certainly knows what he’s doing

From the relevant page of the Code of Canon Law:

*Canon 1086

1. Marriage between two persons, one of whom is baptized in the Catholic Church or has been received into it and has not left it by means of a formal act, and the other of whom is non-baptized, is invalid.

2. This impediment is not to be dispensed unless the conditions mentioned in Canon 1125 and 1126 are fulfilled.

1. If at the time the marriage was contracted one party was commonly held to have been baptized or the baptism was doubtful, the validity of the marriage must be presumed according to the norm of Canon 1060 until it is proven with certainty that one party was baptized but the other was not.*

So as you can see, the invalid nature of the marriage due to one of the two persons not being baptized can be dispensed (provided the proper conditions are met).

Those conditions are spelled out when talking about marriage to a baptized non-Catholic:

*Canon 1124

Without express permission of the competent authority, a marriage is prohibited between two baptized persons of whom one is baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it after baptism and has not defected from it by a formal act and the other of whom is enrolled in a Church or ecclesial community not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

Canon 1125

The local ordinary can grant this permission if there is a just and reasonable cause; he is not to grant it unless the following conditions have been fulfilled: (1) the Catholic party declares that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of falling away from the faith and makes a sincere promise to do all in his or her power to have all the children baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church; (2) the other party is to be informed at an appropriate time of these promises which the Catholic party has to make, so that it is clear that the other party is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party; (3) both parties are to be instructed on the essential ends and properties of marriage, which are not to be excluded by either party.*

The “local ordinary” in this case is the diocesan bishop.

*Canon 1126

The conference of bishops is to establish the way in which these declarations and promises, which are always required, are to be made, what proof of them there should be in the external forum and how they are to be brought to the attention of the non-Catholic party.*

Normally the three points covered in Canon 1125 are handled by way of some kind of Marriage Preparation class. For my wife and I (she’s not Catholic), it was a weekend retreat at the Oblate School of Theology with a couple dozen other engaged couples. I made sure she knew ahead of time anyway, but all relevant points were covered at the class and a record of our participation forwarded to the archdiocese of San Antonio.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Tell me then why is it up to a bishop to decide on a dispensation or not!? When Jesus is our High Priest…hummmm.
“Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly
calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our
profession, Christ Jesus;”
Hebrews 3:1, KJV

Gal 2:11, Acts 17:11, Matthew 16:23

A question often asked? And leads to much confusion when outsiders like us look in. In my experience the greater the Catholic percentage is of a general Christian community the less likely the local Bishop is to approve any dispensation. The more Christian competetion there is the more likely he is to approve.

 

[deescim]

Is there a spot to read exactly what is said in the convaliation ceremony? I’d like to show my DH what he is in for.

The Convalidation ceremony is the actual Rite of Marriage. There is no real difference in the Rite, only the Liturgy preceding the Rite because it usually does not take place within the Mass.

dee

 

[jlhargus]

Hummm and why does the Bishop have such authority? Like I said my husband and I had to jump through hoops to get a dispensation so he could marry outside of the catholic church. The priest/bishop would NOT have done so without a certificate of baptisim. Sure he still could have married me just with out the churches “okay”. Gee that would be great to see “disparity of cult” after someones name who is a Chrisitan but who yet hasn’t made the commitment to Christ to be baptized. Mark 16:16

JL: I think I see the problem why they would say you need proof of baptism. You were claiming to be a Christian without being baptized.

 

[dnomyaR]

I’m in a relationship with a woman who has been baptised Catholic as a child and attends Mass with me regularly but considers herself a Methodist because that is what her extended family practices.

Just curious if this could be a sacramental marriage, since she is baptised.

 

[Seatuck]

I’m in a relationship with a woman who has been baptised Catholic as a child and attends Mass with me regularly but considers herself a Methodist because that is what her extended family practices.

Just curious if this could be a sacramental marriage, since she is baptised.

Yes, Baptism is the gateway to all the other Sacraments.