Can a non-believer be closer to God than a Christian?

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Agnostic_Batman said:
So, in my opinion, a believer who confronts his faith and subsequently becomes a disbeliever is closer to God than a believer who does not.
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I would only agree with you if the person who became a unbeliever became more loving and more fully human. But ultimately LOVE will lead them to God and particularly to Christ one day (in my opinion) since God is the source of all LOVE. Christians believe LOVE (God) became a Human Being.
 
Ultimately it is LOVE (real) that saves us - not a dogma. And what does it mean to be saved? My experience tells me (not just some quote out of the Bible) it is knowing that I am loved and in being loved am able to love others. For me the exact opposite is true. Hell is the inability to receive or give love (total narcisism). Being saved means becoming fully human. Becoming fully human cannot happen without LOVE totally changing a person’s life - regardless of whether they are Christian or Atheist. No one will get into heaven (be fully in God’s presence) until LOVE has totally transformed them and made them fully human.
 
BrunoMaria said:
To think that such atheist who is convinced that there is no God could by any means be closer to God than he who believes in God and confirms God’s being and so is close to God, is absolutely incredible.
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So you wouldn’t agree with other posters here who claim any good I do, as an atheist, is only done because of, and through, God, even though I personally do not believe such a deity exists?

If you do agree, then God would have to be pretty close to me, and by extention, me to Him, if He’s working through me - even though I’m unaware of that fact.

🤷

Sarah x 🙂
 
I am going to say this very VERY clearly. LOVE is the ONLY standard by which each of us will be judged one day and enter into God’s presence fully. A person who is an atheist and is a more loving human being - God is closer to that human being than to a “believer” who is unloving.

St. Augustine paraphrased again - “There are many in the Church God does NOT have and there are many NOT in the Church God does have.” LOVE is the only standard God judges by. I will leave it to Theologians to explain the relationship between LOVE and FAITH. Somehow my common sense tells me they are intricably linked.

“Whoever lives in love lives in God and God in them. Whoever does not love does not know God.” 1 John

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many ’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me". Matthew 25:31-46

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 3All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 3He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ Matthew 25:31-46
 
atheistgirl said:
So you wouldn’t agree with other posters here who claim any good I do, as an atheist, is only done because of, and through, God, even though I personally do not believe such a deity exists?

If you do agree, then God would have to be pretty close to me, and by extention, me to Him, if He’s working through me - even though I’m unaware of that fact.

🤷

Sarah x 🙂
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I would totally agree with you Sarah. I’m sure you put some Christians to shame. If you are truly loving, God is close to you and you close to God (even though you do not know it). A car moves by the gasoline in the engine even though you may not know how. Grace (God) is moving you if you are loving another human being and that is a very beautiful thing to me. You are not a second class human being to me because you do not “believe”.
 
How many Angels can dance on the end of a pin? That’s what these silly discussions amount to… :cool:
 
tomcnj said:
How many Angels can dance on the end of a pin? That’s what these silly discussions amount to… :cool:
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I don’t mean this in a derogatory manner, but your ignorance is really on display. There is a reason Ghandi said he never became a Christian - because he never met one. That is a challege to all Christians that they “become” what they “believe”. People don’t care what you know until they know that you care. I am of the mind that “BEING” is infinitely more important than “DOING”. We are human “beings” … not human “doings” …
 
jkiernan56 said:
I don’t mean this in a derogatory manner, but your ignorance is really on display. There is a reason Ghandi said he never became a Christian - because he never met one. That is a challege to all Christians that they “become” what they “believe”. People don’t care what you know until they know that you care. I am of the mind that “BEING” is infinitely more important than “DOING”. We are human “beings” … not human “doings” …
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You most certainly DO mean it in a derogatory manner, so it makes you not only a hypocrite but a liar too. 👍

Let me just add… “sticks and stones, baby”… :cool:😛
 
I most certainly did not mean to be derogatory in my reply. I think a person who says the question is absurd is ignorant of what is important in their faith. I’m sorry you feel the word ignorant is derogatory.
 
jkiernan56 said:
I most certainly did not mean to be derogatory in my reply. I think a person who says the question is absurd is ignorant of what is important in their faith. I’m sorry you feel the word ignorant is derogatory.
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I don’t need you to tell me about faith. I was just lamenting the useless discussions about fanciful and silly minutiae, as if that’s what the Almighty put us here to do, but then again what do I care? It was just a comment meant to wake some of you up to your folly. Maybe He (or the more genderless “Omnipotent It”) inspired me to make it. Maybe not. By all means, carry on… 👍
 
Interesting that you like to refer to God genderless … do you know anything about John Paul 2’s “Theology of the Body”?
 
jkiernan56 said:
Interesting that you like to refer to God genderless … do you know anything about John Paul 2’s “Theology of the Body”?
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I just don’t think that “God” can be held within one very human and carnal construct as “gender”, regardless of what Paul or any other primitive human wrote eons ago. That’s the danger of being a slave to any human composed historical document. I can FEEL you judging me… hypocrite. 👍
 
Really - you feel judged by my asking you if you know anything about John Paul 2 Theology of the Body? I’m sorry again you feel that way. I won’t ask you any more questions or respond to any more of you comments so that you don’t feel threatened anymore.
 
jkiernan56 said:
Really - you feel judged by my asking you if you know anything about John Paul 2 Theology of the Body? I’m sorry again you feel that way. I won’t ask you any more questions or respond to any more of you comments so that you don’t feel threatened anymore.
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I don’t feel threatened. I just think it’s dumb to go back and forth about ancient writings by ancient people, unless it’s really good fiction. To each their own. My original comment was a simple lament on seeing people get all into it about these silly questions that all amounts to “who is a better Catholic/Christian/whatever”. Better off spending time helping others “out there” in the real world. I only found myself to this useless place via an email they they sent me.
 
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