Can a "normal Joe" interpret Bible passages/scripture?

[Unfinished]

Lazerlike42:

The original recipiants had the enormous advantage of knowing what the background to the letters was. Let me give an example.

Let’s say that you didn’t know how to use your computer, so I came to see you and taught you how. Now assume I go home, and you go to download e-mail. However, you get an email with an attachment, and you don’t know how to download the attachment, because I never told you, or you forgot what I said. Say you write a letter to me asking how to download attachments. I write back, and say, “My dear Malachi, I am so thankful to hear from you. As far as the e-mail is concerned, all you need to know is to press the paperclip button.” You receive this letter and know what it means and are able to understand it completely.

This is the situation that the reciepiants of Paul’s letters were in. Now assume you put the letter on your desk, and then someone else finds it later. They read it, and think, “all I need to know about e-mail is that button! Great!” However, when they go to use the email, they don’t understand what it says and don’t use the e-mail right, thinking they only have to press one button when in fact they have to do a lot more. This is the position the Protestants are in. They lack the context, whereas the original reciepiants had the context.

That is the most profound thing I have heard in a long time. I couldn’t think of a better example if I tried. Thank you. I just wish I had this a month ago.

Adam

 

[Lazerlike42]

Unfinished:

That is the most profound thing I have heard in a long time. I couldn’t think of a better example if I tried. Thank you. I just wish I had this a month ago.

Adam

Your welcome!

 

[SolaChristo]

As a believer in the gospel and in the salvation of Jesus it is necessary also to believe the bible and what it says. The bible says I will be given the Spirit of Truth and I believe that because its Gods word. If I come with unbelief---- what if -----I will not be able to accept that truth.

 

[vern_humphrey]

SolaChristo:

As a believer in the gospel and in the salvation of Jesus it is necessary also to believe the bible and what it says. The bible says I will be given the Spirit of Truth and I believe that because its Gods word. If I come with unbelief---- what if -----I will not be able to accept that truth.

Can you quote the verse that says that?

 

[mlchance]

malachi_a_serva:

The original receipients of the epistles determined for themselves the meaning of these/those letters. They did not have a Magisterium to tell them what they mean/meant.

Yes, they did. “The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.” As long as their has been the Church, there has been the Magesterium.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Nicene]

Malachi are you a believer? If so you have been given the Spirit of Truth which will lead you to all Truth. The Ethiopian eunich did not have that Spirit of Truth unlil after he came to believe, Dont be lead astray,

This sounds as though you believe in bible alone and the bible checks itself, would that be a correct statement?

Lets see if that pans out:

1. After Moses died was his body assumed into heaven? If so show us where scripture (OT) checks itself on this, if not, again show where scripture checks itself on this.
2. When the apostles quote Jesus are the sayings to be found in the gospels?
3. In Mark when Jesus is approached about the apostles plucking grain on the sabbath, is his statement accurate when he refers to the OT?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[mercygate]

VociMike:

You can’t test things according to scripure if you don’t know what scripture means. For example, when you test the doctrine of the Real Presence according to scripture, what result do you come up with? What result do Catholics come up with? Now what?

Actually, take it back a step. You can’t test things according to Scripture if you don’t know what Scripture IS.

You have to know that the books you are holding in your hand actually are the Word of God. How do you know that? Catholics know how they know what books belong in the Bible.

 

[mercygate]

SolaChristo:

As a believer in the gospel and in the salvation of Jesus it is necessary also to believe the bible and what it says. The bible says I will be given the Spirit of Truth and I believe that because its Gods word. If I come with unbelief---- what if -----I will not be able to accept that truth.

If we are reading the same Bible, it does not say that each of us individually, independently of the Church will be given the spirit of truth. If you are quoting John 16:13, Jesus is promising the spirit of truth to his immediate audience: the 11. In other words, when you, Sola, receive “the spirit of truth” if it is a different “truth” than that received by the Apostles, guess whose “spirit” trumps?

Apart from the Apostolic fellowship, no “spirit of truth” stands on its own authority.

How can a personal interpretation of Scripture have a more authentic “spirit of truth” than that promised by Our Lord himself to the Church which he delegated at the Great Commission (again, only the 11 were present) to “teach all nations”.

 

[SolaChristo]

mercygate:

If we are reading the same Bible, it does not say that each of us individually, independently of the Church will be given the spirit of truth. If you are quoting John 16:13, Jesus is promising the spirit of truth to his immediate audience: the 11. In other words, when you, Sola, receive “the spirit of truth” if it is a different “truth” than that received by the Apostles, guess whose “spirit” trumps?

Apart from the Apostolic fellowship, no “spirit of truth” stands on its own authority.

How can a personal interpretation of Scripture have a more authentic “spirit of truth” than that promised by Our Lord himself to the Church which he delegated at the Great Commission (again, only the 11 were present) to “teach all nations”.

John 14,15 and 16 and 1John4 promises us the Spirit of Truth to his disciples . I am a disciple of Christ, you are not?

Lets have an example
John1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend F1 it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. F2 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, F3 and His own F4 did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ " 16 And F5 of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, F6 who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Do I need someone telling me what this passage means or can I do my own study and come to a good understanding of it? I say the latter.

 

[SolaChristo]

VociMike:

You are a believer. I am a believer. I believe something different than what you believe. So that means at least one of the following things.

1. I am not a believer.
2. You are not a believer.
3. The promise to be led into all truth does not apply to individuals, at least not in this life.
4. The promise to be led into all truth includes being led into the pillar and foundation of Truth, the Catholic Church.

Comments?

Do you believe you can walk with God as Moses did? Do you believe you can have angelic visitations as Abraham had? Do you believe you can have dreams as Joseph did? Do you believe you can hear the voice of God? Do you believe that God wants to train and teach you personally?

 

[Nicene]

NM apologies, read wrong poster.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[mercygate]

SolaChristo:

John 14,15 and 16 and 1John4 promises us the Spirit of Truth to his disciples . I am a disciple of Christ, you are not?

Insofar as I am a disciplie of Christ, I listen to those whom he chose to be closest to him. Since I was not at the Last Supper, I have to trust those who were. If I claim to be his disciple, but deny the Apostolic teaching, then I am failing in my discipleship.

Lets have an example
John1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, . . . . … For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, F6 who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Do I need someone telling me what this passage means or can I do my own study and come to a good understanding of it? I say the latter.

When you say “do my own study” you are already accepting the possibility that there is an authority other than your own personal conversation with the Holy Spirit involved in your effort to understand. Catholics do not say that you need to have somebody tell you what what every passage of the Bible means. (You should hear my explication of the Deuteronomic and Gospel texts: “not by bread alone” as it relates to John 6 and Hebrews 9-10!) We are saying that if an individual claims to have received the “spirit of truth” but that spirit contradicts the Apostolic teaching, then it is not the Apostolic teaching that is in error. For example, early on, the passage you quote was used to justify gnostic teachingst about the person of Christ. Did the gnostics receive the spirit of truth when they interpreted that passage? And who is to say that they did not? Only the Church.

 

[sadie2723]

Jeanette L:

Which is why my standard reply to the Fundamentalist/Evangelical who likes to try to debate me with a barage of Scripture verses is this:

Your interpretations of the Scriptures are interesting, but do you claim them to be infallible? End of conversation.

Man…that is a great point!

I am using that one! Thanks!

Brad

 

[VociMike]

SolaChristo:

Do you believe you can walk with God as Moses did? Do you believe you can have angelic visitations as Abraham had? Do you believe you can have dreams as Joseph did? Do you believe you can hear the voice of God? Do you believe that God wants to train and teach you personally?

I cannot understand the point of your questions.

 

[VociMike]

SolaChristo:

…Do I need someone telling me what this passage means or can I do my own study and come to a good understanding of it? I say the latter.

Do you need someone telling you the nature of the Trinity, and the nature of the Incarnation, which those verses touch upon? Yes, you do. There is no way you would be able to figure those things out on your own. Many heretics have tried in the past, and they all supported their errors with scripture.

 

[1Christ1Church]

Lazerlike42:

The Church teaching on this is found right in the BIble:

Act 8:30 So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
Act 8:31 And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

2 Peter 3:16 - …There are some things in [the Scriptures] that are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

WOW, thanks Rome!!! Philip recieved the good news of Jesus and gave back to God what God has given him to the Ethiopian! Then the Ethiopian believed the word of God and realized he wanted to be baptized for repentance of his sins. WOW, I wonder if Rome ever sent the Ethiopian his baptism certificate!

Come on, you hear the living word of God from another, you believe, get baptized. Read and learn from the king of kings himself in the Gospels. Go teach and be fishers of men and belong to the one true church of heaven.

 

[vern_humphrey]

1Christ1Church:

WOW, thanks Rome!!! Philip recieved the good news of Jesus and gave back to God what God has given him to the Ethiopian! Then the Ethiopian believed and realized he wanted to be baptized. WOW, I wonder if Rome ever sent the Ethiopian his baptism certificate.

Come on, you hear the living word of God from another, you believe, get baptized. Read and learn from the king of kings himself in the Gospels. Go teach and be fishers of men and belong to the one true church of heaven.

Do you actually think it pleases God when you make fun of the Bible?

 

[1Christ1Church]

vern humphrey:

Do you actually think it pleases God when you make fun of the Bible?

How am I making fun of the bible? Im making a point that we are not idiots. How grand it must be to the demons of this world that we that have the word of our almighty God in our hands and we need a small select few to interpret it for us.

This is not a game, never was, never will be.

God Bless in the name of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit

 

[Nicene]

1Christ1Church:

How am I making fun of the bible? Im making a point that we are not idiots. How grand it must be to the demons of this world that we that have the word of our almighty God in our hands and we need a small select few to interpret it for us.

This is not a game, never was, never will be.

God Bless in the name of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit

Apparently some do. Tell us the meanings of the above passage. Maybe you skipped them out of rhetoric? Or do you truly not know?

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[vern_humphrey]

1Christ1Church:

How am I making fun of the bible?

You said, and I quote:

**

WOW

, thanks Rome!!! Philip recieved the good news of Jesus and gave back to God what God has given him to the Ethiopian! Then the Ethiopian believed the word of God and realized he wanted to be baptized for repentance of his sins. WOW, I wonder if Rome ever sent the Ethiopian his baptism certificate!
**

1Christ1Church:

Im making a point that we are not idiots.

And ridiculing the Bible in the process.

1Christ1Church:

How grand it must be to the demons of this world that we that have the word of our almighty God in our hands and we need a small select few to interpret it for us.

Perhaps God wants His word interpreted by people who won’t ridicule it.

1Christ1Church:

This is not a game, never was, never will be.

Which is why I was shocked that you would take such a tone about a passage from Acts.