Can a person just trust in Jesus and remain a Catholic?

[rarndt01]

I was formerly a evangelical who was a solely a believer in Jesus Christ and I only prayed and showed my devotion to him alone. I find my new Catholic religion very hard to adjust to, because a great deal of devotion is given to Mary as well as Jesus. Even the Rosary is divided between recital prayers to Our Father and Hail Mary. Can’t I just be devoted to Jesus alone and not Mary and still remain Cathoic? Has anyone who has recently converted form an evangelical background experienced these same feelings?

 

[carol_marie]

I think so long as you accept the Catholic teaching on Mary - without sin, Mother of God, remained a virgin etc., Jesus can remain your main focus. I too am evangelical so I know where your at with the Mary devotion. Maybe in time you’ll get more used to it…I did. I just continually remind myself that Mary always points the way to her Son. She too is His biggest fan so I don’t think she minds one bit if we are so in love with Jeus that we want to be devoted to Him. God bless you! CM

 

[Todd_Easton]

When you go calling at the Lord’s house in prayer, I think it would be impolite if you didn’t at least once in a while say hello to his mother and thank her for her role in bringing your best friend into the world.

 

[twf]

I’m a former Evangelical myself, and I understand that the concept seems at first foreign. At first it may be difficult. You still should try to foster a devotion to our Lady, though. Jesus will help you, and she will as well. Pray about it. We are to imitate Jesus…that’s what focussing on Jesus means. Jesus honoured Mary as His Mother, and crowned her Queen of Heaven. We must thus in turn honour her as well. She is the greatest of all creatures. God created her as a the immaculate (sinless, perfect) Mother of God. She is both our spiritual mother and our model of the perfect disciple. We are missing out on so much if we do not foster a devotion to her. She is our Mother. She is a powerful intercessor. Remember the Wedding at Cana? Jesus told her that it was not yet his time, but since she had asked him, he turned the water into wine. Mary, as the Mother of the Church, has a special role in drawing us closer to Jesus. Through her, our relationship with Christ is strengthened. I am still fostering my devotion to Mary.
Ask yourself this. If Mary was chosen to be the Mother of God himself, then don’t you think that she must have something to offer us as our mother?

 

[twf]

Now, also keep in mind that we do not venerate Mary because of her own merit. Her glory is God’s. She is like the moon, which reflects the light of the sun. We honour her because Jesus gave her the dignity and honour of being His mother. Think about that for a moment. She bore the creator of the universe in her womb, and raised him as her son.

In the Old Testament, in the Kingdom of Israel, the Queen Mother was often an important position. Beethsheeba, for example, King Soloman’s mother, had a throne to the right of the king, and would intercede for the people, bringing their requests and concerns before the king. Now of course people could go directly to the king as well, but his mother had a special place in his heart, so her intercession was especially powerful. This is true of Mary, who is the Queen Mother in the Kingdom of Heaven (one of her titles is Queen of Heaven and Earth). She is not divine. She is finite. But Christ set her apart for a special role in his plan.

Your question is similar to asking whether or not you can just focus on Jesus and forget about other Christians around you. Jesus doesn’t want it that way. He wants us to be a living communion, working together for His glory. Christ likes to use hands and feet…to use us to carry out his plans (by us I mean creatures).

Marian devotion is closely interwoven with Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Since time immemorial, Christians have honoured Mary as the New Eve, the Mother of God, and as a model of holiness. The Holy Father, a man with a great devotion to our Lady, has written quite a lot on her. To be honest, I have not read much of his writings yet, but I am currently reading the apostolic letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae (The Rosary of the Virgin Mary), which can be found at francescoproductions.com/pages/rosariumvatican.html. I’m sure others out there can recommend many great books and articles that will help you understand and appreciate Mary’s role in our spirituality.

This is paragraph #971 from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

*“All generations will call be blessed”: “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.” [Lk 1:48; Paul VI, MC 56] The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honoured with the title ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs…This very special devotion…differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.” [LG 66] The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an ‘epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary. [Cf. Paul VI, MC 42, SC 103]*

God bless you on your journey. May Mary and all the angels and saints intercede before God on your behalf.

Oh, and a bit off topic, but Carol did you ever get my PMs?

 

[jimmy]

Todd Easton:

When you go calling at the Lord’s house in prayer, I think it would be impolite if you didn’t at least once in a while say hello to his mother and thank her for her role in bringing your best friend into the world.

Wow, I have never thought of it that way. That is a good answer.

 

[puzzleannie]

A Catholic MUST trust in Jesus to remain Catholic. Trust in Jesus means trust in everything He taught, everything He gave us, which exists on earth in the Church He founded. This does not exclude trust in those He appointed to teach and guide us, and those who have died in His service and know enjoy the eternal presence with Him, foremost among whom is His mother.

 

[vudster]

I struggled with this at first also. Then, I became a parent and everything became clear. Mary needed salvation through Jesus as much as we did. It is not through her that we are saved but instead through her Son. However, she is the first and best disciple and her voice on our behalf is one that I believe Jesus finds impossible to ignore. As a family man, I now recognize my own need for a family of faith - both in the pews around me and in Heaven.

 

[Exporter]

For what it’s worth.

Each night I end my prayers with, “Thank you God, Jesus and The Holy Spirit for what Jesus did, for my life and for my family”.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

As Catholics, we have something much more than trust in Jesus as a mere abstract proposition. We are covenantally bonded with him. It is a bond of kinship. Therefore, just as Jesus is our brother and king, so Mary is our mother and queen. The saints are our brothers and sisters. When you join Christ’s Church, you don’t get just “me and Jesus”, you get a gigantic family.

Scott

 

[jmm08]

rarndt01: At one time I also considered myself an evangelical. I remember when I was in college that I thought Catholics were so dumb to pray to Mary. Mary, mother of God? How can that be? God created everything so how did Mary get to be first? I had friends who “got saved” and used to be Catholic and I was hoping they would soon get over the Mary stuff.

My advice to you is this:

(a) Get a copy of Fulton Sheen’s “Life is Worth Living” and start reading it. Read only one lesson each day (in the morning is best). To me, Fulton Sheen explains so much so well. I cannot explain as well as he does. You can probably borrow it from your local library if you don’t have the money to buy it.

(b) Even as an evangelical I was taught that one way of really learning the Bible was to meditate on scripture. Even to pray the Word back to God. The first 2 of 3 lines of “Hail Mary” is word-for-word scripture. The 3rd line is just a personal request to Mary.

So try it. Pray the Lord’s prayer and then ten Hail Marys every night just before you go to bed. It only took me a few days to start to see more about Mary.

(c) I hope you are signed up for RCIA. If not, then do it. They only start it up once a year and now is the time. Otherwise, you may need to wait an extra year. RCIA is only at an investigating phase at this time (you don’t yet need to be certain you want to be Catholic).

(d) Mary mother of God. My explanation at this time is like this (I could be wrong). Mary was the natural birth mother of Jesus Christ our Lord (in the flesh). Jesus existed first. But Mary was his birth mother here on earth. Mary has the title “Mother of God” and “Queen of Heaven”. It is similar to how the English loved their “Queen Mum” – the mother of Queen Elizabeth II. The “Queen Mum” wasn’t the “Queen Mum” until Elizabeth became Queen.

I am in RCIA this year (2nd meeting is tonight).

 

[MariaG]

I think part of the problem is the words you are using. I know in the Evangelical church, we did our morning devotions. That meant morning prayer and worship to God.

You still thinking of devotion as belonging only to God. Worship belongs solely to God, but we can be devoted to our family. I worship God alone, but am devoted to my children. I worship God alone, but am devoted to my Church. I worship God alone, but am devoted to the Word of God. Devotion does not equal worship. It appears as if even if the head knowledge of this concept is there, it hasn’t yet reached your heart.

Personally, I have to tell you that I too had that same difficulty. So, at first, I choose not to ask the Saints to pray for me. I did not have devotion to Our Blessed Mother. I did not disrespect her, but neither did I offer her devotion. Devotion and worship were still too intertwined to offer it to anyone but God alone. Eventually, my heart caught up with my head. I can now offer devotion to Our Blessed Mother without ‘crossing the line’ into worship. Devotion is not the same as worship. But until you can grasp that with your head and your heart, my personal opinion is to simply worship Christ alone and let devotion to Mary come when devotion is does not mean the same thing as worship to you.

God Bless,
Maria

p.s.
I also prayed to God to help me understand with my heart the difference between worship and devotion!

 

[dhgray]

rarndt01:

I find my new Catholic religion very hard to adjust to, because a great deal of devotion is given to Mary as well as Jesus.

Don’t stress over Mary. It took me years, after converting, for me to recognize her. When my wife would say the Rosary, I would leave the room. ALL WE ASK is that you do not dismiss her as many of our non-Catholics do and to pray for a greater understanding. For without Mary, Jesus would not have been born. Of course, God would have choosen another, but he did not. He choose Mary and she said yes and dedicated her life to serving the Lord. Mary, in my life, is an example of total dedication to God that I must try to emulate. And that is why I honor her.

 

[tru_dvotion]

Those convert brothers and sisters who have struggles with the role of Our Mother, are dealing with residues of false teaching from their former faith concerning the Mother of God. No cradle Catholic has problems with her role, except when they embrace false teaching from non Catholic sources. It would be fruitful to investigate, what else might be lurking from the former beliefs. Getting through RCIA or even being Catholic from birth is no assurance that one is fully catholicized.

 

[Melchior]

tru_dvotion:

Those convert brothers and sisters who have struggles with the role of Our Mother, are dealing with residues of false teaching from their former faith concerning the Mother of God. No cradle Catholic has problems with her role, except when they embrace false teaching from non Catholic sources. It would be fruitful to investigate, what else might be lurking from the former beliefs. Getting through RCIA or even being Catholic from birth is no assurance that one is fully catholicized.

Respectfully, I think you overstate your case. I never was comfortable with the way many Catholics practice their Marian devotion. I had not a single Protestant influence as a child and I could not figure out the people who seemed to worship Mary.

And my 75 year old, very devout Catholic mom doesn’t get it either. She is a cradle Catholic and a model of faith and she is devoted to Jesus and loves Mary but find little or no value in her prayer life with regard to Mary. She sees it as many cradle Catholics I know do. There are very many Catholics, lots of ethnic ones in my area that seem to be Mary worshippers. There are plenty who are not, but there are plenty of cradle Catholics in my experience who are woefully ignorant of many aspects of basic Catholicism/Christianity and definately cross the line from veneration to worship.

I wish I took pictures at the feast of the Lady of Fatima at the Cathollic church in my neighborhood last week. Some of the nice old Portuguese ladies looked like they were worshipping a statue to the casual observer. This is what makes non-cathollics and many practicing catholics cringe. This is one of those things where the Church needs to teach (from the pulpit) the right way to pay honor to Mary without crossing the line, because this is one of the things that drives many Catholics to Protestantism. Most Evangelicals in my area are former Catholics and this is one of things that helped them become Evangelicals. Not Marian devotion. But an ignorant, over-zealous Mary worship by those who should but don’t know any better.

Please know that I am not saying that Catholics who know their faith worship Mary. I know better. But I am saying there are many Catholics who are religious but don’t know their faith and do end up worshipping Mary or at least come inappropriately close.

All that said, I believe Mary is the Mother of God, is full of grace and is our mother and I love her.

Mel

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Mel,

Some of the nice old Portuguese ladies looked like they were worshipping a statue to the casual observer.

I’m sure a causal observer in OT times would have said the same of Abraham, who bowed before men, or those kneeling and praying before an image-adorn Jewish Temple, or of those Jews who turned toward the image-adorn Temple, to bow or kneel in prayer.

The most holy artifact of OT times was the Ark of the Covenant. Surely a casual observer could have easily concluded that the Jews worshipped the image-adorn object because of the reverence they had for such a artifact. Perhaps even concluding that they worshipped the graven image of the golden cheribum of the Ark’s design.

I believe the problem is with those presuming to know what is in the hearts of those kneeling or bowing and praying.

My wife (a convert influenced by Adventist teachings) was initially bothered one day by my boy facing a statue of St. Mary in our chapel when he prayed the Rosary. She asked my boy why he did it. He said it helped him to focus. Hmmmm… a wonder what a casual observer would have presumed?

 

[Scott_Waddell]

One of the unfortunate stereotypical arguments is the old-woman-with-rosary example. The suggestion is that she could not possibly understand the difference between hyperdulia and latria. Without specific evidence of abuse of Marian devotion, as opposed to genral sense of a casual observer not getting it (since when does PR considerations constitute abuse?), it is simply bad faith to generalize.

Scott

 

[Melchior]

Dave & Scott,

I appreciate what both of you are saying. But these people are my neighbors, I grew up with there children in some cases and I know them and their culture. I believe they are sincere but I also believe many of them don’t know the difference or where to draw the line. Do you guys deny that this could happen? I am not saying Catholic teaching is wrong. I am saying that honesty demands any Christian to admit the potential of misuse of anything and that it does in fact happen in all traditions. Heck our local paper has a St. Juded chain letter prayer every week. It says St. Jude will do this or that miracle for you if you say this prayer 8 times and tell 10 other people to do the same. These are not Baptists paying for these ads. Superstition can be very strong among some Catholics and it can turn Icons in Talismen for them. I can’t tell you how many non-practicing Catholics, and Orthodox for that matter, in my life superstitiously kiss a medal, crucifix or Icon in the same manner that someone knocks on wood. Yet they will live like the devil without a second thought.

I know how easy this is because I can see the potential in myself to do such things. In fact I have abused the sign of the Cross in this very way. As a Lutheran! I am just saying that people will appreciate Catholics admitting that these things do happen. Nobody, probably including most Catholics, believe deep down that this does not happen. If you don’t believe me come up to Boston for a week or two and you will see what I mean.

Mel

 

[tru_dvotion]

Melchior]Respectfully, I think you overstate your case. I never was comfortable with the way many Catholics practice their Marian devotion. I had not a single Protestant influence as a child and I could not figure out the people who seemed to worship Mary

On the contrary Mel. Otherwise, your thinking would be quite different. Plus the generalizations you are making about Marian devotion tell me otherwise. Our outlook is shaped by not only conscious choices; they are also shaped by forces and ideals that make the way into our experience without conscious realization. I have no way of knowing why your mom found little or no values in her prayer life with regard to Mary, but this also has shaped your attitude. How could it not? To some extent we are all products of our environment, especially our formative years leave an imprint, in that we either embrace the values we learned as a child or we reject them. So no, I do not believe one can come to a conclusion as you have regarding Catholic devotion to our Holy Mother without outside influences. And yes, yours are Protestant sentiments and are not Catholic.

There are very many Catholics, lots of ethnic ones in my area that seem to be Mary worshippers. There are plenty who are not, but there are plenty of cradle Catholics in my experience who are woefully ignorant of many aspects of basic Catholicism/Christianity and definately cross the line from veneration to worship.

Wait a minute; what do you base your analysis on regarding these Catholics? What makes you think they worship rather than venerate? What makes you so sure they are ignorant of many aspects of basic Catholicism/Christianity? The very fact you separated Catholicism from Christianity is a telltale sign you are not terribly well versed in Catholicism yourself. You see Catholicism IS Christianity.

Some of the nice old Portuguese ladies looked like they were worshipping a statue to the casual observer. This is what makes non-cathollics and many practicing catholics cringe. This is one of those things where the Church needs to teach… the right way to pay honor to Mary without crossing the line, because this is one of the things that drives many Catholics to Protestantism. Most Evangelicals in my area are former Catholics and this is one of things that helped them become Evangelicals. Not Marian devotion. But an ignorant, over-zealous Mary worship by those who should but don’t know any better.

Gee, as if it mattered what these evangelicals think? Should we suppress our devotion to our Holy Mother just so these won’t “cringe”? If this drives a Catholic to Protestantism, he was never a Catholic in the first place, and I say to these people, Amen, go on your way.

Please know that I am not saying that Catholics who know their faith worship Mary. I know better.

On the contrary Mel, that is exactly what you have just expressed.

All that said, I believe Mary is the Mother of God, is full of grace and is our mother and I love her.

You may love her Mel, but you do not seem to be able to relate to ancient forms of Marian devotion, especially in the cultural context. The outward expressions of Catholic Marian devotion never was and never will be a sign of Mary worship.

God bless.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

I believe they are sincere but I also believe many of them don’t know the difference or where to draw the line. Do you guys deny that this could happen? I am not saying Catholic teaching is wrong. I am saying that honesty demands any Christian to admit the potential of misuse of anything and that it does in fact happen in all traditions.

Yes, abuse can happen, I don’t deny that. I DO deny that your belief that “many of them don’t know the difference or where to draw the line” carries any authority. The only thing you have established is that the more flowery forms of Marian piety creep you out. So what? If you can give me a clear, provable example of abuse and an actual Church teaching that it is violating, I will consider it.

Scott