Can a practicing Catholic vote for a pro-life 3rd party instead of Trump?

[LethalMouse]

yeah but there is that whole “the one who has the greater chance at preventing…such and such”. Sorry, Trump doesn’t excite me and he’s no pro-lifer people.

Long term goals?

The number of people who want to vote 3rd party has drastically increased, the number who DO has increased much less so. Each vote for the 3rd party is an ever increasing image to the masses that there is more than 2 options and that we actually have a free state.

Unfortunately it is hard to make these decisions to a point…but I can say I really regret not going 3rd last time. I went Romney and only because if Obama is a 80 bad Romney was a 79…

TBH I am more torn on this one, Trumps actually policies aren’t all that bad in alot of areas and given the existence of Congress I think his stupid people rallying cries are just that… but IDK for sure so even if he did try to make those things happen I don’t see them passing.

And in general if people pay more attention to the congressional, senate, and state elections and stop focusing on the figurehead we could maybe do better. We are not electing a King.

The fear in fairness is if I vote Johnson and not Trump and we get the other…well likely much won’t pass.

However I had hoped for sanders from them since he would not have passed near anything lol…but Hilary is crafty and connected via pockets… she may do more than she should

 

[mdgspencer]

The Catholic Church doesn’t say about whether or not to vote for a 3rd party candidate.
However, Church leaders have said not to vote for a pro-abortion candidate, unless that person is the lesser of evils among candidates.
Rather than going on what unknown people are telling you about Trump’s abortion stance, I suggest you google to trump abortion or trump abortion catholic and sort through the results.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I am thinking of voting for the Constitution Party’s candidate. I’m sorry, Trump could care less about the pro-life movement and we all know where Hillary stands. Catholics are screwed in this election.

I KNOW the CP’s candidate is truly pro-life. Thanks.

According to Father Dwight Longenecker, Mark Shea, and Dave Armstrong, yes. People who know much more about Theology and politics than I do. No I’m not saying you have to agree with them or even agree with me but Trump is not a pro-life candidate and the idea that we have to pick between the lesser of two evils is a 4 an idea in most countries many countries have multiple parties other than two parties have a plurality of the vote which can cause problems but there’s nothing saying that you have to vote D or R the catechism mentions you having the civic duty to vote it does not say that you can’t vote for a party other than a mainstream political party. Probably no candidate is going to be perfect but at the same time I’m not going to throw away my pro-life views to vote for someone that’s popular. You know I can name several Republican presidents that have been president since I was alive but abortion is still a federal case. I can name several Democrats that promise to eliminate poverty or at least help but it’s still widespread. Ultimately though your vote is your vote not someone else’s and that is up to your conscience not someone elses. I know a lot of people are going to argue with me about this but I’m sorry voting for evil is still voting for evil.

 

[twf]

So a vote for Trump is “morally good”? LOL!!!

The thrice married adulterer who has admitted he has felt no need to ask God for forgiveness is gonna bring morality back to America? WOW!!!

No thanks. 3rd party for me.

We Catholics outside of the USA shake our heads with wonder and great sorrow that any of our brethren could even consider supporting such a vile man. His constant flip flopping, his base cruel insults against women and the handicapped, his crassness (publicly humiliating a nursing mother and her crying baby? What a monster), the mounting evidence of his involvement in con jobs (Trump University…) can all perhaps be forgiven. They prove he is a vile, disgusting, immoral human being, but perhaps these actions could be overlooked to prevent great evil. Yet on top of that, he is very much at odd with the Church on such issues as torture, the murder of non-combatants, and the treatment of immigrants.
Clinton supports evil in her strong pro-abortiob stand. I couldn’t face the Lord after voting for either of them. Both are evil, dark choices.

 

[total_Catholic]

According to Father Dwight Longenecker, Mark Shea, and Dave Armstrong, yes. People who know much more about Theology and politics than I do. No I’m not saying you have to agree with them or even agree with me but Trump is not a pro-life candidate and the idea that we have to pick between the lesser of two evils is a 4 an idea in most countries many countries have multiple parties other than two parties have a plurality of the vote which can cause problems but there’s nothing saying that you have to vote D or R the catechism mentions you having the civic duty to vote it does not say that you can’t vote for a party other than a mainstream political party. Probably no candidate is going to be perfect but at the same time I’m not going to throw away my pro-life views to vote for someone that’s popular. You know I can name several Republican presidents that have been president since I was alive but abortion is still a federal case. I can name several Democrats that promise to eliminate poverty or at least help but it’s still widespread. Ultimately though your vote is your vote not someone else’s and that is up to your conscience not someone elses. I know a lot of people are going to argue with me about this but I’m sorry voting for evil is still voting for evil.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

We Catholics outside of the USA shake our heads with wonder and great sorrow that any of our brethren could even consider supporting such a vile man. His constant flip flopping, his base cruel insults against women and the handicapped, his crassness (publicly humiliating a nursing mother and her crying baby? What a monster), the mounting evidence of his involvement in con jobs (Trump University…) can all perhaps be forgiven. They prove he is a vile, disgusting, immoral human being, but perhaps these actions could be overlooked to prevent great evil. Yet on top of that, he is very much at odd with the Church on such issues as torture, the murder of non-combatants, and the treatment of immigrants.
Clinton supports evil in her strong pro-abortiob stand. I couldn’t face the Lord after voting for either of them. Both are evil, dark choices.

Don’t forget engaging in collective punishment by murdering innocent people, even children (killing families of people deemed terrorists) which also happens to be a war crime and he publicly said he would do it on television. He is a great guy, when responding to allegations that he raped his wife he said it wasn’t a crime. Honestly the Green Party candidate would be more likely to reduce the number of abortions than Trump would.

 

[utah_rose]

He has proven time and time again he doesn’t know where he stands.

Also the Republican platform is pro life, so even though I’m not a fan of him, I sure font want pro abortion Hillary in. The Democratic platform is very pro abortion. She is the greater evil as she’s in bed with PP and has stated the Supreme Court judges she will pick will have to be pro abortion. So voting for any third party candidate will essentially be a vote for her.

If we had a strong third party, it might be different as it would split the Dem vote. I was hoping Bernie would run as an independent or socialist.

 

[PTL]

Also the Republican platform is pro life, so even though I’m not a fan of him, I sure font want pro abortion Hillary in. The Democratic platform is very pro abortion. She is the greater evil as she’s in bed with PP and has stated the Supreme Court judges she will pick will have to be pro abortion. So voting for any third party candidate will essentially be a vote for her.

That!

Voting for third party is indirectly vote for Hillary.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Also the Republican platform is pro life, so even though I’m not a fan of him, I sure font want pro abortion Hillary in. The Democratic platform is very pro abortion. She is the greater evil as she’s in bed with PP and has stated the Supreme Court judges she will pick will have to be pro abortion. So voting for any third party candidate will essentially be a vote for her.

If we had a strong third party, it might be different as it would split the Dem vote. I was hoping Bernie would run as an independent or socialist.

So all that conman has to do is claim he’ll act against abortion and Catholics are magically bound to do it even if he doesn’t give a damn and isn’t going to actually do anything to reduce abortion? Even if he really moved to appoint someone to the Supreme Court who was confirmed it wouldn’t change anything because it wouldn’t achieve a minority. Even if it was banned the truth is abortions wouldn’t go down all that much because mifepristone would still be easy to smuggle in and readily available. It wouldn’t stop abusive men from forcing their girlfriends/wives to have abortions. It wouldn’t stop further impoverishing of women. Donald Trump is paying lip service to get votes, he doesn’t really care.

 

[Kenny_Kamel]

I am from Illinois and currently live in Indiana. If I were voting in Illinois I would vote my conscience with great scrupulosity in any federal election because I know any Democrat candidate is likely to win. I normally voted for the “most Catholic friendly” candidate as an Illinois voter.

As an Indiana voter, being a more tightly contested state, I would definitely vote for Trump

 

[Corki]

The Catholic Church doesn’t say about whether or not to vote for a 3rd party candidate.
However, Church leaders have said not to vote for a pro-abortion candidate, unless that person is the lesser of evils among candidates.
Rather than going on what unknown people are telling you about Trump’s abortion stance, I suggest you google to trump abortion or trump abortion catholic and sort through the results.

The Church doesn’t actually say to vote for the lesser of evils. She says to vote in a manner that has the greatest chance of lessening or limiting the intrinsic evil. The example often given is two pro-choice candidates but one who favors unrestricted access to abortion and one who supports abortion for rape or incest. Neither is a truly pro-life position but one would limit the evil while the other would not.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am thinking of voting for the Constitution Party’s candidate. I’m sorry, Trump could care less about the pro-life movement and we all know where Hillary stands. Catholics are screwed in this election.

I KNOW the CP’s candidate is truly pro-life. Thanks.

There is a big difference between can and should.

One of the reasons to vote third party is to register with the other candidates that thier position cost them votes.

The Catholic vote will lean democrat, trump is the viable pro life candidate. A third party vote does nothing to save a baby’s life, it could ensure the victory of one who wishes to kill babies though.

Is trump a great pro life candidate? No. His vp pick is pleasing though. Is Hillary a great pro choice candidate. North sod the greatest pro choice candidate in history.
One of those two will win. One way or another your vote will help ensure victory for one of those two. Not any third party.

 

[Della]

Trump doesn’t have to be angel from God for us to vote for him, no matter how much we don’t care for his outlandish language and manner of dealing with people. I’m not happy about him, either, but Hillary would do all in her power to push the pro-death agenda to the very max, and that we cannot allow.

Already the government runs our schools’ agendas with outright pro-death propaganda. Imagine how much worse it would be under her. Our elderly, disabled and infirm would be her next target. Our freedom of religion would even more strictly curtailed by the court appointments she would make. Think people, think. Try to be realistic about all this instead of having your heads in the clouds.

We CANNOT vote for Hilary and a 3rd party vote only gives her more votes by taking them away from Trump. He is endorsed by pro-life groups. Sure, he’s not going to rid the country of abortion, but he’s not going to push it, either. He’s going to leave it completely up to each person to decide, instead of putting the power of the government behind it to ensure more women, especially women of color, have abortions willy-nilly with no protections for their health and well-being.

It couldn’t be more black and white if you’d asked for it–Clinton is completely out, a 3rd party candidate vote is a vote for her. That leaves us with Trump as the only viable option, like him or not.

 

[Padres1969]

Trump doesn’t have to be angel from God for us to vote for him, no matter how much we don’t care for his outlandish language and manner of dealing with people. I’m not happy about him, either, but Hillary would do all in her power to push the pro-death agenda to the very max, and that we cannot allow.

Already the government runs our schools’ agendas with outright pro-death propaganda. Imagine how much worse it would be under her. Our elderly, disabled and infirm would be her next target. Our freedom of religion would even more strictly curtailed by the court appointments she would make. Think people, think. Try to be realistic about all this instead of having your heads in the clouds.

We CANNOT vote for Hilary and a 3rd party vote only gives her more votes by taking them away from Trump. He is endorsed by pro-life groups. Sure, he’s not going to rid the country of abortion, but he’s not going to push it, either. He’s going to leave it completely up to each person to decide, instead of putting the power of the government behind it to ensure more women, especially women of color, have abortions willy-nilly with no protections for their health and well-being.

It couldn’t be more black and white if you’d asked for it–Clinton is completely out, a 3rd party candidate vote is a vote for her. That leaves us with Trump as the only viable option, like him or not.

A third party candidate vote is not a vote for Trump, or for Hillary. It’s a vote for the Third party candidate. If I vote for Jill Stein I’m not magically voting for Trump.

 

[Della]

A third party candidate vote is not a vote for Trump, or for Hillary. It’s a vote for the Third party candidate. If I vote for Jill Stein I’m not magically voting for Trump.

It’s voting against him, and thereby voting for Hillary. Remember when Perot ran as an independent in the Bush/Clinton election? Why do you think Clinton won so handily? Because those who should have voted against him by voting for Bush, voted for Clinton by voting for a candidate that didn’t have a chance of winning. If we hadn’t have had such a strong 3rd party candidate that election season, Bush might have won or at least Clinton wouldn’t have won by such a large margin.

Think about it, if you knew disenchanting people against the candidate running against you would drive them into voting 3rd party, wouldn’t you do everything possible to make that happen, if you knew it would take votes away from him? Well, Hillary is no political dummy. And that’s exactly been her plan, or I should say Bill’s plain since it worked beautifully for him, why not for her, as well?

The Clintons know they have the liberal media on their side. All they have to do is make Trump look as bad as possible (not that he isn’t helping them with his wild rhetoric). They’re taking full advantage of his political naivete. All they have to do is get enough people to vote 3rd party, who they know would never vote for Hillary, and they’ve got the White House in the bag.

 

[Gertabelle]

Trump doesn’t have to be angel from God for us to vote for him, no matter how much we don’t care for his outlandish language and manner of dealing with people. I’m not happy about him, either, but Hillary would do all in her power to push the pro-death agenda to the very max, and that we cannot allow.

Already the government runs our schools’ agendas with outright pro-death propaganda. Imagine how much worse it would be under her. Our elderly, disabled and infirm would be her next target. Our freedom of religion would even more strictly curtailed by the court appointments she would make. Think people, think. Try to be realistic about all this instead of having your heads in the clouds.

We CANNOT vote for Hilary and a 3rd party vote only gives her more votes by taking them away from Trump. He is endorsed by pro-life groups. Sure, he’s not going to rid the country of abortion, but he’s not going to push it, either. He’s going to leave it completely up to each person to decide, instead of putting the power of the government behind it to ensure more women, especially women of color, have abortions willy-nilly with no protections for their health and well-being.

It couldn’t be more black and white if you’d asked for it–Clinton is completely out, a 3rd party candidate vote is a vote for her. That leaves us with Trump as the only viable option, like him or not.

You are very well-spoken and argue your point well.

But I just don’t see how I could stand before God and justify voting for either of these two people. The only thing that’s making a Trump vote even remotely* possible is that the establishment hates him so very much, which means he might not be given carte blanche.

On the other hand, with his bank account and his access to certain favors within his granting, I have far too many reservations about who might be “swayed” to Trump’s side should he be elected.

And then there’s these five words that stop me in my tracks: “I’m your Commander In Chief.”

No. Just no.

If we’re talking about answering to God for our vote, I think both of these candidates are just way too dangerous – in my own opinion, which is all I have to answer for. HRC will absolutely push for unrestricted abortion and euthanasia on demand (i.e., physician-assisted suicide).

Trump’s money and very poor leadership temperament causes me worry for the very future of the Constitution itself!

So no, I won’t be voting for either of these very poor choices. In my opinion, they each represent “clear and present dangers” to the future of the US.

Will my vote for a 3rd party take a vote away from one of these other candidates? NO. If a 3rd party weren’t an option, I simply would not vote for president this year.

My vote for a 3rd party candidate is, as Padres 1969 points out, a vote for a 3rd party candidate. Period.

(“remotely” possible, as in far removed from me, as in on the other side of the planet, hidden in a deep dark cave at the end of a dark labyrinth of tunnels, filled with mythological creatures trying to talk some sense into me… you get the idea.)

 

[Della]

No one is claiming Trump is the perfect choice. I was for Rubio myself. But we’ve only got two viable options here, and yes, and again, and because it’s just plain true–how I wish it weren’t, voting a 3rd party candidate hands your vote to the one who will get the most votes by those who are voting for one of the two main candidates. As I explained to Padres, all that does it make easier for one of the two party candidates to take the majority of votes. That’s how it works–again, I wish it didn’t, but that’s the reality of the situation. Trump is no prize, but he’s better that the alternative.

And no, God will not judge you for voting for a less than perfect candidate. God knows very well who is running for office–flawed human beings. He knows we only have two viable choices. The Church teaches us to be wise in how we vote so that the pro-life cause will make some progress rather than be set back another 4 to 8 years.

Please, everyone one. You have to vote against Hillary by voting for Trump–not because you like him, but because she’d be so much worse. I tried hard to get this point across in the last national elections and ran into the same political naivete and so-called “conscience voting” argument then, as well. And what did we get? A 3rd party candidate? One that was at least somewhat pro-life? No. We got a very pro-death, anti-Christian president. If you want the same outcome this year, vote for a 3rd party candidate, but you’ll come to regret it come November.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

No one is claiming Trump is the perfect choice. I was for Rubio myself. But we’ve only got two viable options here, and yes, and again, and because it’s just plain true–how I wish it weren’t, voting a 3rd party candidate hands your vote to the one who will get the most votes by those who are voting for one of the two main candidates. As I explained to Padres, all that does it make easier for one of the two party candidates to take the majority of votes. That’s how it works–again, I wish it didn’t, but that’s the reality of the situation. Trump is no prize, but he’s better that the alternative.

And no, God will not judge you for voting for a less than perfect candidate. God knows very well who is running for office–flawed human beings. He knows we only have two viable choices. The Church teaches us to be wise in how we vote so that the pro-life cause will make some progress rather than be set back another 4 to 8 years.

Please, everyone one. You have to vote against Hillary by voting for Trump–not because you like him, but because she’d be so much worse. I tried hard to get this point across in the last national elections and ran into the same political naivete and so-called “conscience voting” argument then, as well. And what did we get? A 3rd party candidate? One that was at least somewhat pro-life? No. We got a very pro-death, anti-Christian president. If you want the same outcome this year, vote for a 3rd party candidate, but you’ll come to regret it come November.

Remember, this is the Social Justice forum. Not the World News forum. Explicit discussion of political candidates is allowed there, but not here.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Both candidates propose enacting greatly unjust policies.

 

[Personanongrata]

I am thinking of voting for the Constitution Party’s candidate. I’m sorry, Trump could care less about the pro-life movement and we all know where Hillary stands. Catholics are screwed in this election.

I KNOW the CP’s candidate is truly pro-life. Thanks.

You can definitely vote for any 3rd party of your choice. Since they don’t win, it’s kind of like staying home and not voting.