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bilop
Guest
So if I cheat on my wife in the privacy of my home, that’s OK with God?
Hmmm. Wasn’t there a commandment about that one?
May God Bless You and enlighten you.
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Hmmm. Wasn’t there a commandment about that one?
May God Bless You and enlighten you.
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GraceDK
Guest
IzzyIdle.
Welcome to the forums.
You accuse me of hate talk… I am sorry you feel that way… it must be tough for you. You obviously have a personal issue with these things.
I gotta tell you, I have been living in sin myself for some time in my life (not anymore) and that just felt really bad in my soul… I was never at ease… always when I read about the sacrificial love of Christ I wept. If you know Him you’ll understand.
Okay… so what have we in Scripture: (…) their foolish hearts were darkened. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the **degrading of their bodies **with one another (…) God gave them over to **shameful lusts **(…) men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men comitted indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion ( Romans 1, 221-27)
Evil will devour itself. We all will die with our wickedness and foolishness, and all will pass away, but Jesus Christ, who is the TRUTH, will remain eternally… unlike the dinosaurs pal… I invite you to receive Jesus in your heart as your personal Lord and Saviour… He can heal you in every way.
By the way… nature is fallen… therefore we are not all doing so good but there is illness, disabilities and crippled limbs
Welcome to the forums.
You accuse me of hate talk… I am sorry you feel that way… it must be tough for you. You obviously have a personal issue with these things.
I gotta tell you, I have been living in sin myself for some time in my life (not anymore) and that just felt really bad in my soul… I was never at ease… always when I read about the sacrificial love of Christ I wept. If you know Him you’ll understand.
Okay… so what have we in Scripture: (…) their foolish hearts were darkened. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the **degrading of their bodies **with one another (…) God gave them over to **shameful lusts **(…) men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men comitted indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion ( Romans 1, 221-27)
Evil will devour itself. We all will die with our wickedness and foolishness, and all will pass away, but Jesus Christ, who is the TRUTH, will remain eternally… unlike the dinosaurs pal… I invite you to receive Jesus in your heart as your personal Lord and Saviour… He can heal you in every way.
By the way… nature is fallen… therefore we are not all doing so good but there is illness, disabilities and crippled limbs
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goofyjim
Guest
If they can love God and love their neighbor as themselves then they can be just as good a Christian as anyone else can.
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rlg94086
Guest
As a “practicing” homosexual, they are living in a state of constant mortal sin. It is the same as a heterosexual couple who are living together.
An adulterer needs to confess and repent from their adultery. Then, they are no longer an adulterer. If they stumble and cheat on their spouse again, they have become an adulterer again. The key is in the attitude of repentance. So, someone who is “living in sin” needs to move out in order to repent. Similarly, a “practicing” homosexual needs to break off their homosexual relationship(s) and remain chaste. If they stumble, then they are like any other Christian. If they choose not to repent and defy Church teaching, then I would find it hard to say they are being a “good Christian.”
It doesn’t mean we don’t love them, but we would be remiss if we didn’t correct them and explain that they can’t partake of the Blessed Sacrament until they repent and receive absolution.
An adulterer needs to confess and repent from their adultery. Then, they are no longer an adulterer. If they stumble and cheat on their spouse again, they have become an adulterer again. The key is in the attitude of repentance. So, someone who is “living in sin” needs to move out in order to repent. Similarly, a “practicing” homosexual needs to break off their homosexual relationship(s) and remain chaste. If they stumble, then they are like any other Christian. If they choose not to repent and defy Church teaching, then I would find it hard to say they are being a “good Christian.”
It doesn’t mean we don’t love them, but we would be remiss if we didn’t correct them and explain that they can’t partake of the Blessed Sacrament until they repent and receive absolution.
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CathCentrist
Guest
ditto. Gays can be good nd bad like heteros - people need to accept that and stop labeling them as evil
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rlg94086
Guest
You are correct, they aren’t evil, but their acts are sinful. A distinction has to be made between orientation and practice.
There is no doubt that someone who is “gay”, as in someone who has SSA and does their best to live a chaste (i.e. celibate in their case) life, is as “good” a Christian as a “hetero” who does their best to live a chaste life.
On the other hand, someone who is a “practicing” homosexual (i.e. purposely performing homosexual acts and denying the sinfulness) has chosen to live as a “bad” Christian, in the same way that someone who uses artificial birth control and denies it sinfulness.
Therefore if you are going to use the terms “good” and “bad”, the answer is “no.” A “practicing” homosexual can’t be a “good” Christian. They must repent from their sin, be absolved and do their best to sin no more (i.e. live a chaste life) - just like the rest of us.
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Keikiolu
Guest
You guys are funny…!
Armed with no idea of what you’re talking about, you bravely saunter into the field, not even aware that you’ve been struck and killed by your own “weaponry”.
Standing there for a time,… ghostlike,… awaiting the “theological fool ghost-whisperer” to tell you you need to move on toward that big bright light, you pose and jab with humorous effect to the worms which slowly devour your rotting corpse in the mire of the battlefield.
Alas,… such dash you possess…!
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Mannyfit75
Guest
They can be good Christians just as long as they don’t practice homosexual behavior, and if they are Catholic. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that all baptized are called towards chastity.
In regards to marriage individuals also:
That is very clear as black and white right? I hope this will help open the eyes of those who have SSA…
Chastity and Homosexuality:
. The Christian has "put on Christ,"135 the model for all chastity. All Christ’s faithful are called to lead a chaste life in keeping with their particular states of life. At the moment of his Baptism, the Christian is pledged to lead his affective life in chastity.
In regards to marriage individuals also:
. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should** reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love**. They will help each other grow in chastity.
That is very clear as black and white right? I hope this will help open the eyes of those who have SSA…
Chastity and Homosexuality:
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goofyjim
Guest
Thanks for the judgement but I was serious. There are no worms devouring my rotting corpse any more than anyone else’s.
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Dempsey1919
Guest
There is a quote falsely attributed to me by Newbie2. I would like to clarify that I did not post that and it in no way represents my views.
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goofyjim
Guest
Instead of trading barbs back and forth let’s let God decide who is a good Christian. It’s time to end all these threads on homosexuality.
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Dempsey1919
Guest
I disagree. There are some homosexuals who are determined to impose their belief that homosexuality is ok. It is not. I dislike the fact that so many on these forums have forgotten that this is a sin; instead they go around proclaiming that it is an acceptable alternative lifestyle.
I started this thread because I wanted to know how to deal with these people. I found it strange how they managed to reconcile their beliefs with their sinful lifestyle.
I am not condemning people who have same sex attraction but live a celebate life. I admire these people for bearing their cross and fighting the good fight. However, I will never condone or support a person who lives a homosexual lifestyle.
I started this thread because I wanted to know how to deal with these people. I found it strange how they managed to reconcile their beliefs with their sinful lifestyle.
I am not condemning people who have same sex attraction but live a celebate life. I admire these people for bearing their cross and fighting the good fight. However, I will never condone or support a person who lives a homosexual lifestyle.
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thistle
Guest
You obviously don’t read much scripture then because you are wrong.
A few examples for you:
Leviticus 18:22
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.
Jude 7
Likewise, Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Romans 1:26-27
Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:9-11
with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,
according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
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Newbie2
Guest
Sorry, where is it? I’ll correct it; I’m not sure how to work the multiple quote thing yet.
PM me!
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
My personal belief, which came about in my Catholic teachings not to judge a person on a single thing and then make it define that person.
Same-gender preference people are people too. There is no hard and fast rule that makes them second- or third-rate (or even lower) in the eyes of people.
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fix
Guest
But, that does not mean certain acts are good. No one is saying we define perons by their bad acts. What I am saying is that bad acts affect all of us and it is disingenuous to not call sin a sin and claim fidelity to Jesus.
That is not the issue at all.
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Bennie_P
Guest
You are not quite right about making judgments; the qualifier is that you judge not for you will be judge by the same standard. Otherwise you don’t go pointing out others sins when you fall short in a similar sin or living in sin, for example as an adulterer condemning an adulteress as we see in the story of Jesus and the prostitute. It is the duty of Christians to stand up for the teachings of the Church and correct their brothers and sisters in an appropriate manner. That doesn’t mean you go around looking for the sin in others, but it also doesn’t mean you be complacent when others are trying to spread false teachings, as in this case about the morality of homosexual behavior. The scriptures are clear, as well as the teachings of the Church, homosexuality is disordered and practitioners of the ‘gay’ lifestyle will not enter the kingdom if they reject God’s grace.
Gal 6:1-7 Brethren, and if a man be overtaken in any fault, you, who are spiritual, instruct such a one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Bear ye one another’s burdens: and so you shall fulfil the law of Christ.
For if any man think himself to be some thing, whereas he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
But let every one prove his own work: and so he shall have glory in himself only and not in another.
For every one shall bear his own burden.
And let him that is instructed in the word communicate to him that instructeth him, in all good things.
Be not deceived: God is not mocked.
Mat 7:1-6 Judge not, that you may not be judged.
For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?
Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?
Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.
2Ti 3:15-17 And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures which can instruct thee to salvation by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice:
That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.
2Pe 2:18-19 For, speaking proud words of vanity, they allure by the desires of fleshly riotousness those who for a little while escape, such as converse in error:
Promising them liberty, whereas they themselves are the slaves of corruption. For by whom a man is overcome, of the same also he is the slave.
1899 Douay-Rheims Bible – public domain
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brianwalden
Guest
God has decided - He has guided His Church to declare that the proper interpretation of revelation is that homosexual acts constitute grave sin. If this is wrong, then all of Catholic theology of the body is wrong. Are you going to come up with your own theology concerning human sexuality?
How is a person who repeatedly and unrepentantly commits homosexual acts any different from the following:
a person who repeatedly and unrepentantly fornicates
a person who repeatedly and unrepentantly murders people
a person who repeatedly and unrepentantly steal
a person who repeatedly and unrepentantly lies
a person who repeatedly and unrepentantly [insert your favorite mortal sin]
This is the question the OP was asking. I agree with his assertion that there is no way to reconcile their actions with being a good Christian. This doesn’t mean that they’re a bad person in the general. All of the people above may give half their money and all of their free time to charity, they might never say an unkind thing to anyone, they might love puppies and always obey the speed limit. That still doesn’t make them good Christians.
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Keikiolu
Guest
I know you were serious. That’s why it’s both funny and tragic.
Would you like a translation of what I said, so that you might come a little tiny bit closer to understanding what I mean?
Here it is, regardless:
Someone who would say that anyone can be a good Christian while simultaneously not being a good Christian, either doesn’t understand what “good Christian” means, or has no understanding of the concept of simple contradiction.
Anyone who thinks that Christians “HATE GAYS”, as people, as opposed to the fact that Christians HATE GAY BEHAVIOR but LOVE those who do it, as people, has no understanding of what a Christian is.
Both statements PROVE that the “wielder” of those statements use them to no effect other than to make themselves look extremely foolish and utterly uneducated on the subject in question.
Now,… if the “wielder” is truly humbly sincere with exposing themselves as they did, then they are to be pitied and helped to acquire more education so as to not make themselves look any more “goofy” than they already do.
Below are the statements made by the “wielders”:
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wcknight
Guest
I don’t understand gay attraction, and I don’t know enough about gays to say it is natural or unnatural. I just know the Church teaches that gays are to abstain from sexual behavior, and I know that Jesus tells us not judge others lest we be judged.
St Paul tells us that sin leads to death and yet, we are all sinners. However we are on a life long journey to turn away from sin, to make our lives more perfect and holy so we can enter Heaven unblemished. Jesus established His Church to show us the way and since the Church says it is wrong then we should try our best to abide by that.
Personally, I think gays have a much tougher road to travel. They are asked to do something that none of us heteros are required to do. The clergy do so voluntarily so we know it is not impossible.
Yet it must be extremely difficult to love someone like a spouse and not be able to express that love. In years past I might have thought that to be impossible, but in my later years, sex has not been as irresistable.
As far as being a good Christian, I go back to what it means to be a Christian, and that is one who believes Jesus is God Almighty, and one loves God above all else and one who loves their neighbors. IF they can reconcile their lives with these principles then of course they can be good Christians.
St Paul tells us that sin leads to death and yet, we are all sinners. However we are on a life long journey to turn away from sin, to make our lives more perfect and holy so we can enter Heaven unblemished. Jesus established His Church to show us the way and since the Church says it is wrong then we should try our best to abide by that.
Personally, I think gays have a much tougher road to travel. They are asked to do something that none of us heteros are required to do. The clergy do so voluntarily so we know it is not impossible.
Yet it must be extremely difficult to love someone like a spouse and not be able to express that love. In years past I might have thought that to be impossible, but in my later years, sex has not been as irresistable.
As far as being a good Christian, I go back to what it means to be a Christian, and that is one who believes Jesus is God Almighty, and one loves God above all else and one who loves their neighbors. IF they can reconcile their lives with these principles then of course they can be good Christians.
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