Can a protestant church be called a church?

[Wannano]

CCC
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements, Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

Thank you Ammi for providing the only real charitable response to this completely ignorant question. If the CC itself recognizes that non-Catholic churches (not the buildings but the organization/people) are used by the Holy Spirit as a means of salvation for mankind it is time the laity are informed. The fact is, the Holy Spirit is alive and active within non-Catholic Churches because the reality is that they are as much a part of the Church Christ established as is the Catholic Church, if they have not departed from the teaching of Christ.

 

[tafan2]

Here is the problem. The person referred to by the OP said that the Jesus himself defined what a church is. That is correct, but it is not the only definition, at least not in the English language, which Jesus most certainly did not use. So we have the common definition given here, ie a building for Christian worship, and we have the definition as a community of believers. Jesus defined the second yes, as his Church, the one Church. But even here, the early Church changed it to two definitions: a local Church headed by a bishop, ie what we call a diocese and universal Church.
So the person in the OP is way off. Protestant denomonations should not be called churches, I agree. But even that’s not a hill to die for. But protestant church buildings can certainly be called churches.

 

[acanonlawyer]

I appreciate all the canon law answers and that’s perfectly clear

You made my day.

but I’m still confused I guess on a bit of a jurisdictional level in terms of who gets to say what a church is and isn’t

The Catholic Church has the authority to define what she means by “Church” and has done so (most recently in the document Dominus Iesus http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html , at, for example, n. 17) but only (again, as far as I know) in regard to the institutional/hierarchical/authoritative level, not at the level of buildings.

At the same time, if the Lutherans of the world want to come together and say what they mean by “Church”, no one from the Catholic Church will stop them. As a Catholic, though, I won’t live by what the Lutherans say when my own Church has said something else.

Regarding the term “Bishop”, I wouldn’t mind calling people “bishop” if that is what they call themselves (even if they are not Catholic bishops). … I remember a time when I was accosted by a guy at a gas station. He wanted money. Eventually, I asked what his name was and he said “Bishop.” I called him “Bishop.”

Dan

 

[mcq72]

This is a close family member. And I’m Catholic too, just a little less… ummm… “militant” ?

Well, i would have a few miltant words myself in return. Like it reminds me of those who said, " I am of Peter" or “I am of Paul”, like good for you, such a fine Christian pedigree. Or like the apostles being proprietary and looked down on other disciples who didn’t "hang out " with them, Jesus correcting the apostles. Or like those who proudly boasted to Jesus of lineage to Abraham and Moses, being satisfied and justified in that.

 

[TC3033]

I don’t think anyone told you to cut ties with your parents…and to be fair, this is the first time any of us received this info… Your OP made it sound like a friend (at best).

Either way, my advice would still stand. I would have excused myself from the conversation and upon receiving the email my reply would have been to no longer try to engage me on the subject…and recommend utilizing their smartphone app next time.

 

[Wannano]

I was giving directions to a very religious TLM catholic, and said “turn left at the church”. They corrected me, saying “the ‘so-called’ church?”. I thought this was a little bit rude / unnecessary / offputting, but that aside, were they correct? I realize that these churches are not part of “the Church”, but is the word “church” itself reserved for Catholics? Not sure where to go on this one…

How old are you Mabu?

 

[Wannano]

At the same time, if the Lutherans of the world want to come together and say what they mean by “Church”, no one from the Catholic Church will stop them.

What has truthfully brought this change? Is it a change of heart within the CC or lack of control of temporal power?

 

[mabu]

Indeed … but I’m used to it by now. I just keep a long mental list of conversation topics that bring out the soap box, so we keep the peace when I avoid bringing them up! We do have a really good relationship overall, but yeah… don’t bring up Vatican II

 

[mabu]

I’m 36… and the folks I’m talking about here are my parents, in their late 60s.

 

[mcq72]

Protestant denomonations should not be called churches, I agree. But even that’s not a hill to die for.

Well some have died for it, on both sides. Gives a clue to the baseness of such unnecessary theological musings.

 

[TULIPed]

Defined terms notwithstanding, I would think that you’d be safe to err on the side of reverence when discussing a place where our King promised to be present, no?

"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

 

[BartholomewB]

But some of the trad gang with which I hang insists on saying “you mean pastor” each time someone mentions a Lutheran priest.

When your trad gang friends read Chapter 1 of Luke, how do they fill in the blank in verse 5? Here it is in the Douay Rheims:

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain ——— named Zachary, of the course of Abia; and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name Elizabeth.

 

[BartholomewB]

Your “trad gang” are a mirror image of certain Protestants I have met online. They argue that no Christian church can correctly call its clergy “priests” because, in the New Testament, that term is used exclusively of the Temple priesthood. Christians have “elders” and “overseers,” they say. Only Jews and pagans have “priests.”

 

[ChuckB]

p.s. Any advice how to best respond? This is a close family member. And I’m Catholic too, just a little less… ummm… “militant” ?

An exaggerated eye-roll would have been appropriate.

 

[Tommy999]

If a Catholic wants to witness to a Protestant and have the Protestant listen in good faith, he won’t insult the Protestant’s faith by saying his church isn’t a church. If he or she insists on calling the Protestant’s denomination or church building anything less than a ‘church’, I doubt the Catholic will be taken seriously from that point on, even if the Catholic believes he is telling it like it is.

I’ve always been more open to Catholics sharing their beliefs when they first show respect for my faith. When they come at it from a humble and respectful “Here’s how Catholicism can enhance your Christian faith” perspective I am all ears.

 

[ChuckB]

If a Catholic wants to witness to a Protestant and have the Protestant listen in good faith, he won’t insult the Protestant’s faith by saying his church isn’t a church. If he or she insists on calling the Protestant’s denomination or church building anything less than a ‘church’, I doubt the Catholic will be taken seriously from that point on, even if the Catholic believes he is telling it like it is.

I’ve always been more open to Catholics sharing their beliefs when they first show respect for my faith. When they come at it from a humble and respectful “Here’s how Catholicism can enhance your Christian faith” perspective I am all ears.

Well said.

 

[TruthSeeker3]

Church in the Bible was never a building but a gathering of Christ followers.

 

[Athanasiy]

What if you were moved to the area where there are no Catholic churches, then you ll probably go to Protestant one.
At least some Christian community.
The same if you ll get to Jews only area, or Muslim only area, you ll go there to a Protestant church if you see one.

 

[Athanasiy]

Man, I injured my finger and had to go to a hospital one day before I visited Messianic Church and touched Torah with my fingers when it was carried around.
Well, it’s their tradition in a church to touch Torah.
Hopefully, It is christianized Torah, therefore I also touched it but not with a Bible but with fingers.
I am ecumenical catholic, and I do not believe in their Eschatology and for me it is difficult to grasp some things which have to do with God’s ethnic favoritism, but honestly I just believe that Jews impregnated all nations with the revelation and its admirable.

 

[De_Maria]

I was giving directions to a very religious TLM catholic, and said “turn left at the church”. They corrected me, saying “the ‘so-called’ church?”. I thought this was a little bit rude / unnecessary / offputting, but that aside, were they correct? I realize that these churches are not part of “the Church”, but is the word “church” itself reserved for Catholics? Not sure where to go on this one…

Have you ever seen a Protestant genuflect when he enters his place of worship? I don’t think so. Other Protestants would consider him crazy if he did. The reason being that they don’t believe the Lord is in their house.

“Church” means “house of the Lord”.

The word “Church” is derived from the Greek “Kryiakon” meaning “The Lords House”. …
Search for: What is the root meaning of the word church?

Therefore, your friends were technically correct. Since the Protestants discarded the belief in the Real Presence of the Holy Eucharist and since, even those who do believe in the Real Presence, reject the idea of adoration of the Holy Eucharist, their buildings do not house the Lord. They are not Tabernacles as are the Catholic and Orthodox buildings.

I’m assuming you’re Catholic and that you know that the candles which are lit beside the Tabernacles in a Catholic Church, signify the presence of the Holy Eucharist, the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. That is why we genuflect when we enter a Catholic Church, as secular people genuflect when they are in the presence of a King.

I hope that helps.