Can a protestant church be called a church?

[PickyPicky]

The reason being that they don’t believe the Lord is in their house

Can that be true? Perhaps you are excluding Anglicans from your definition of “Protestant”, but don’t all Protestants believe God is among them when they worship?

 

[neophyte]

I suggest asking them what word they would use in that situation, and telling them you’ll try to remember to use it if they’ll try to remember to not give you a hard time if you don’t (or if it ends up being really clunky, like “the third big brick building with a steeple”).

 

[TULIPed]

The reason being that they don’t believe the Lord is in their house.

I”m sorry @De_Maria - this just isn’t true. As to genuflection - our Episcopalian brothers and sisters do so and they are Protestants. Many Methodists still have “kneelers” in the pews.

As to the presence of our Lord at worship - recall that he said this (to all of us):

“For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

We do believe that Christ - who always keeps his promises - keeps this one as well. Christ is really present in a Protestant (or Catholic) church filled with people, or in a house church - in Iran for example - with only 4 or 5 praying and worshiping Him. Thanks be to God.

 

[De_Maria]

Can that be true? Perhaps you are excluding Anglicans from your definition of “Protestant”, but don’t all Protestants believe God is among them when they worship?

Basically, you have the idea that Jesus is present when two or three gather vs the idea that Jesus is present in the Holy Eucharist. Those who simply believe that Jesus is present when they come together to worship, do not believe that Jesus is present in that building when they exit. They consider the building, now empty.

If you’ve ever noticed, when a Catholic passes a Catholic Church, he makes the sign of the Cross, acknowledging and honoring the presence of the Lord in His Church, whether anyone else is in it or not. We know that Christ is present in His Church, in the Holy Eucharist.

 

[GKMotley]

As, for example, the history of certain Anglicans. As also the holy water stoup.
As also the chancel lamp.

 

[De_Maria]

As to the presence of our Lord at worship - recall that he said this (to all of us):

“For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

We do believe that Christ - who always keeps his promises - keeps this one as well.

What if the building is empty? Do you believe that Jesus remains present therein, in the Holy Eucharist?

 

[TULIPed]

Do you believe that He’s ONLY there in that particular church building?

We believe that the Holy Spirit is present in all believers, all of the time. I understand and respect that “physical presence” is very important to Catholics. When I enter a Catholic Church, I am especially mindful of the presence of our Lord - and thus I genuflect as well. (I’m a bit more hesitant with he sign of the cross, as I get confused as to go left or right - over the heart first, correct?)

All I’m saying is that we Protestants believe that Christ is present - really present - in our buildings as well. I’m sure that if and when you enter one, you’ll be as respectful as I am, no?

 

[De_Maria]

Did you understand why we cross ourselves when passing a Catholic Church? We don’t do it when passing a Protestant building.

On the contrary, we don’t deny that Jesus is present wherever two or three gather in His name. We simply recognize that Protestants don’t believe that Jesus is present within their buildings when they are not in there worshipping.

 

[De_Maria]

Do you believe that He’s ONLY there in that particular church building?

He’s in every Catholic Church. Long before Motel 6 left the light on for you, Catholic Churches recognized the presence of Our Lord, in the Holy Eucharist, by lighting a candle beside the Tabernacle.

We believe that the Holy Spirit is present in all believers, all of the time.

In Baptized believers. So do we.

I understand and respect that “physical presence” is very important to Catholics. When I enter a Catholic Church, I am especially mindful of the presence of our Lord - and thus I genuflect as well. (I’m a bit more hesitant with he sign of the cross, as I get confused as to go left or right - over the heart first, correct?)

One way is the Catholic tradition. The other is the Orthodox. So, as far as I’m concerned, they are equally valid.

All I’m saying is that we Protestants believe that Christ is present - really present - in our buildings as well.

When the building is empty?

I’m sure that if and when you enter one, you’ll be as respectful as I am, no?

I’ve been in many. No one is respectful. The first time, I did genuflect. I was corrected. I was told it was not necessary. The “crowd” only hushed after the music began.

Again, notice the difference between the silent and respectful way that Catholics enter their Church, get on their knees and begin to pray and the nonchalant, happy go lucky, conversational way that Protestants enter theirs. I’ve never been to a Protestant gathering where they acknowledged the presence of the Lord before the sermon began.

Have you?

 

[GKMotley]

Freely granted.

 

[De_Maria]

May not what?

you don’t speak for everyone on the topic.

Did I say that I did?

Nor can you sum up what all ‘Protestants’ (that giant rather nebulous group* believe so easily.

But I can sum up my experience with Protestants, as I’ve seen them in their worship spaces and have had conversations where they acknowledge that they do not believe in the Real Presence.

*Indeed they are somewhat motley. This term has been used with the kind permission of GK Industries.

I certainly don’t deny this idea. They all pretty much believe as they individually desire. But, that doesn’t change the fact that very few of them believe that Jesus is present in an empty building. And therefore, in my opinion, their empty buildings should not be referred to, as churches.

 

[TULIPed]

There’s no question that Catholics do a much better job of being respectful in and around churches than we Protestants do - in general. I’m sorry that you were corrected for genuflecting. I would hope that such a thing wouldn’t happen in my (Reformed) church.

We acknowledge the presence of Christ in our midst many times during our worship. I don’t know which church you attended, but I do think it’s a shame that His presence was never acknowledged.

Back to the point though - I’ll speak for my Reformed tradition - we believe that Christ is present in our building - and we believe that he’s present in yours. We respect your traditions - and take others at their word on theirs. We do this because our King was kind and respectful of all people - even sinners. He was present in the houses of even tax collectors and Pharisees. Perhaps you’d give us Protestants the benefit of the doubt?

 

[De_Maria]

Nor is that true across the board.
[/quote]

Lol! That is what motley means.

 

[GKMotley]

As also the exposition and benediction of the Sacrament. To continue a theme.

 

[De_Maria]

We acknowledge the presence of Christ in our midst many times during our worship.

How about before? How about after?

I don’t know which church you attended, but I do think it’s a shame that His presence was never acknowledged.

Do you believe that He is present in your empty building? When all the believers exit the building, is He still there?

Back to the point though - I’ll speak for my Reformed tradition - we believe that Christ is present in our building -

Even when two or three are not gathered there?

and we believe that he’s present in yours.

Because you recognize the Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist which is in the Taberncacle that all may adore Him?

If not, why do you believe He is present in Catholic Churches?

We respect your traditions -

And we respect yours. MOST Protestants deny the Real Presence and I’m not aware of any Protestants who leave the Holy Eucharist in the Tabernacle to be adored. Are you?

and take others at their word on theirs. We do this because our King was kind and respectful of all people - even sinners. He was present in the houses of even tax collectors and Pharisees. Perhaps you’d give us Protestants the benefit of the doubt?

As someone else said, Protestants are a motley group. How can one tell the one’s who believe in Christ’s Real Presence from those who don’t, simply by looking at their buildings?

 

[De_Maria]

mot·ley
/ˈmätlē/

adjective
incongruously varied in appearance or character; disparate.

 

[TULIPed]

It seems your definition of a church is only one associated with a belief in the RP. We can agree to disagree.

As for me, I believe that a church is anywhere Jesus Christ is worshiped (even a small home in a country where worship must happen secretly). I believe it’s a place where lives are saved, believers are baptized, couples are married, people are fed - both physically and spiritually - all in the great name of Christ.

And so, I call a building where Catholics worship a church. I do it with respect and reverence. I do this, even if you don’t or won’t reciprocate.

 

[De_Maria]

According to the Orthodoxwiki, it is reserved. But not exposed for worship or adoration:

Reserved Sacrament​

The Eucharist is normally reserved in a tabernacle on the altar table, although there is no strict rule as to the place of reservation. There are no services of public devotion before the reserved sacrament, nor is there any equivalent to the Roman Catholic functions of Exposition and Benediction. The priest blesses the people with the sacrament during the course of the Liturgy, but never outside it.
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Eucharist

 

[De_Maria]

Sure, we can agree to disagree. But, why didn’t you answer the simple questions that I asked?

Do you believe that He is present in your empty building? When all the believers exit the building, is He still there?

 

[OddBird]

I know of traditionalists who refer to “Protestant temples,” but in my view such usage is offensive to Jewish congregations who have a historic claim on that term.

That’s interesting. In my French-speaking world “temple” is a word often claimed by Protestants to designate their buildings, because some find the word “church” too Catholic. I had never thought about what the Jewish community could have to say about it. Thank you.