Can a Roman Catholic attend a Byzantine Mass when there are Roman Rite options available?

[Hesychios]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Hello Edmac, welcome to the forum!

I’m coming late to this thread, being newly registered. I am an
ex-Latin, now canonically a member of an EC Church.

1. On the matter of canonically changing churches (within
   the Catholic communion) I most strongly recommend that
   no Latin Catholic seriously consider such a step without
   first having regularly participated in the whole liturgical life
   of the EC parish involved for at least two years. There is,after
   all no rush, and no compulsion. Many active members of
   my own EC parish, old-timers there, are still canonically Latins.
   …

Edmac

I am interested in your opinion about something. Since you have just completed the process of canonical transfer I think you would be good person to ask.

Some have stated that a canonical Latin attending a Byzantine church such as yours must observe all of the canonical Holy Days of the latin church, or incur a mortal sin.

I am not actually aware if that has been brought up in this forum, but elsewhere it certainly was mentioned.

I am aware that some members of these Byzantine parishes remain canonically Latin for decades. So then, in your opinion do most of the Latins registered in your parish observe the Latin calendar as a matter of course? And (if I may ask) did you do so throughout the interim period of your discernment over changing canonical enrollment?

Thank you,
Michael

 

[Aileen74]

**Yes you can. **

*Before you receive the Eucharist in the Byzantine Catholic Church you’ll need to speak with the priest ahead of time to find out what the Fasting requirments are and he made ask for proof that you are Catholic &/or that your children have been Confirmed before he gives them Communion.

 

[a_pilgrim]

Before you receive the Eucharist in the Byzantine Catholic Church you’ll need to speak with the priest ahead of time to find out what the Fasting requirments are and he made ask for proof that you are Catholic &/or that your children have been Confirmed before he gives them Communion.

If you are, indeed, a canonical member of the Latin Church, you are bound by the pre-Communion fasting requirements of the Latin Church, not those of the Byzantine Church - no need to re-adjust your current fasting methods to fit those of the Church you’re visiting. Also, your children may receive Holy Communion even if they haven’t yet been confirmed within the Latin Church. Again, they, like you, are bound by the Canons of the Latin Church as well - since eligible Latin Catholic children who have not yet received the Sacrament of Confirmation regularly receive Our Lord in Holy Communion within their own canonical Church, they may do so in any other sui iuris Catholic Church as well. This is understandably a little tougher the other way around, where Byzantine Catholic toddlers and infants approach for Holy Communion in a Latin parish (which they’re fully entitled to do) - sometimes not even the priest realizes that they may, in fact, receive!

Regardless, it’s still a good idea, as you say, to speak to the priest beforehand, if for no other reason than to introduce yourself and your family and to let him know that you are visitors from the Latin Church.

 

[Edmac]

Dear Hesychios/Michael;

Actually I changed about ten years ago.

If you are a Latin Catholic you are bound to observe the
Holy Days according to Latin requirements. I believe that
our parishioners who are still canonically Latins do so.
I did during the period when I was still a Latin.

For your info,and anybody else’s who might be interested,
I did not go to Eastern Catholic churches looking for an
alternative to all the hideous nonsense that was going
on in so many Latin churches. I only went, initially, just
to find out how the Byzantine Rite worked. I ended up
going to my present church and ended up staying.
Mind you, I was born in 1944, and so had twenty odd
years of pre-VatII Catholicism which was, in my parish
anyhow, dreary, dead and dull. People don’t know how
badly the Tridentine Rite Mass could be and was celebrated
in those days.

The Byzantine Liturgy, well celebrated, was a revelation.

Edmac

 

[Aileen74]

If you are, indeed, a canonical member of the Latin Church, you are bound by the pre-Communion fasting requirements of the Latin Church, not those of the Byzantine Church - no need to re-adjust your current fasting methods to fit those of the Church you’re visiting. Also, your children may receive Holy Communion even if they haven’t yet been confirmed within the Latin Church. Again, they, like you, are bound by the Canons of the Latin Church as well - since eligible Latin Catholic children who have not yet received the Sacrament of Confirmation regularly receive Our Lord in Holy Communion within their own canonical Church, they may do so in any other sui iuris Catholic Church as well. This is understandably a little tougher the other way around, where Byzantine Catholic toddlers and infants approach for Holy Communion in a Latin parish (which they’re fully entitled to do) - sometimes not even the priest realizes that they may, in fact, receive!

Regardless, it’s still a good idea, as you say, to speak to the priest beforehand, if for no other reason than to introduce yourself and your family and to let him know that you are visitors from the Latin Church.

When going to a Latin Church do as the Latins do & visa versa; however, since, at least in the Melkite Church, priests only give Holy Eucharist to those they know by name - if a Latin Catholic goes up for the Holy Eucharist and the priest hasn’t met them and know, they are Confirmed in the Catholic Church then the priest will turn them away. I’ve seen it happen in my church before. One little girl was actually Catholic and the priest knew it and still denied her because he knew she wasn’t yet Confirmed - this is the practice of the Melkite Catholic Church.

If anyone visits another Church within the Catholic Church, you need to have respect for the Church and the Traditions of that Church that you are visiting. Each eastern church has a set fast before someone can initially begin to receive Holy Eucharist for the first time - this different from the normal fast one practices before Holy Eucharist.

Just a side note, in the Latin Catholic Church it is okay to receive the Holy Eucharist in that hand - it wouldn’t matter if the person coming up for the Holy Eucharist is a Latin Catholic, the Melkite Catholic priest would NEVER give the Holy Eucharist in the hand.

You need to have respect and love in your heart! It would seem to me that if one doesn’t have a heart to respect the Traditions of another Catholic Church, then perhaps you shouldn’t be visiting it.

Read Pope John Paul II’s encyclical - Light of the East to see what how the Roman Patriach view the situation - he calls for all Catholics to be respectful and cherish each others Traditions.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

When going to a Latin Church do as the Latins do & visa versa; however, since, at least in the Melkite Church, priests only give Holy Eucharist to those they know by name - if a Latin Catholic goes up for the Holy Eucharist and the priest hasn’t met them and know, they are Confirmed in the Catholic Church then the priest will turn them away. I’ve seen it happen in my church before. One little girl was actually Catholic and the priest knew it and still denied her because he knew she wasn’t yet Confirmed - this is the practice of the Melkite Catholic Church.

Aileen,

I have no idea where you came by this information but, as a Melkite Catholic for almost a decade longer than you are old, I can assure those reading that such is not the case. It would absolutely violate the requirement that each Church give a full measure of respect to the canons of the other Churches in the Catholic communion. I can’t imagine that either Archimandrite Mark or Father Brendan would be fostering any such practices, contrary to the canons.

Each eastern church has a set fast before someone can initially begin to receive Holy Eucharist for the first time - this different from the normal fast one practices before Holy Eucharist.

This is more misinformation,

Just a side note, in the Latin Catholic Church it is okay to receive the Holy Eucharist in that hand - it wouldn’t matter if the person coming up for the Holy Eucharist is a Latin Catholic, the Melkite Catholic priest would NEVER give the Holy Eucharist in the hand.

You’re right in this regard - it is not, however, anything that anyone has suggested would be done and, if by the suggestion that someone would expect it, you are seeking to add plausibility to your other assertions, the effort fails. The principles involved are not the same.

Many years,

Neil

 

[wannabee]

Thank goodness for the Irish Melkite

I had been afraid to post on that question though I felt that much of the information given by Aileen74 was erroneous.

Certainly within the UGCC if the Priest knows your name he will use it otherwise you can quietly say it to him just before you are Communed.

Our kiddies are Communed at Baptism and thereafter whenever at DL and are brought forward,so this comment would also be wrong

Each eastern church has a set fast before someone can initially begin to receive Holy Eucharist for the first time - this different from the normal fast one practices before Holy Eucharist.

I am beginning to wonder if Alieen74 has somehow confused Confirmation in the RC Church with First Communion . The two Sacraments are administered at separate times but nowadays there may only be an interval of some months between the two in some Dioceses.

In the RC Church , Baptism , Communion and Confirmation are all the Sacraments of Initiation and are administered at different times except in the case of those entering the Church under RCIA when they are administered at Pascha / Easter.

In the Eastern Churches - both Catholic and Orthodox they are given together as the Mother and child come to Church following the Birth of the child.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The proper term for the Byzantine “Mass” is the Divine Liturgy. The term Mass comes from a closing prayer in the Roman Missal: Ite Misa est, if I remember it correctly. It’s a widespread misnomer. I remember about two years ago attending a special museum exhibit on medieval Novgorod. I remember that the museum proctors made the same mistake in their descriptions of the Byzantine service. In the comment book, I made note of this change.

Latin Rite Catholics may fulfill their Sunday obligation by attending a Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy. There are other Eastern Catholic services (such as the Qurbono of the Maronites) that also fulfill the Latin Catholic Sunday obligation.

That is correct. Edward Faulk, a bi-rite Deacon that in the East, what we call Mass is called Divine Liturgy.

 

[Aileen74]

Aileen,

I have no idea where you came by this information but, as a Melkite Catholic for almost a decade longer than you are old, I can assure those reading that such is not the case. It would absolutely violate the requirement that each Church give a full measure of respect to the canons of the other Churches in the Catholic communion. I can’t imagine that either Archimandrite Mark or Father Brendan would be fostering any such practices, contrary to the canons.

This is more misinformation,

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

Sorry but none of this is misinformation. The incident I refer to, I knew the mother and the little girl. It was about 10 years ago. They were Roman Catholics. The little girl was baptized in a Roman Catholic Church. Then they moved to another area of the state and ended up going to a Byzantine Catholic Church in San Luis Obispo where the priest had been giving her little girl the Holy Eucharist. Then they moved to Sacramento & began attending my church. Fr. Mark (at the time not Archimandrite) told them that the little girl must be Chrismated (Confirmed) before she could continue receiving the Holy Eucharist in his church and that the other priest of the Byzantine Church had broken canon law by giving it to her - not that the other priest should be condemned, but rather Fr. Mark must be faithful to the canons even if another priest wasn’t - since it is required that all who receive the Holy Eucharist in the Melkite Greek Catholic Church (or in any Eastern Catholic Church) must be Baptized, Confirmed & then receive Holy Eucharist…in that order. A few weeks later the little girl was Chrismated (Confirmed) and from that day forward began receiving Holy Eucharist. Later the mother and daughter moved again. They haven’t been back to our Church in years now. Archimandrite Mark certainly followed canon law in doing this.

If you’ve really been in the Melkite Church since before I was born, then this practice should be nothing new to you.

The full measure of respect of the canons of the various Churches within the Catholic Church is to be honored by those attending those Churches; not for the Church visited or attended to conform to the canons of another Church within the Catholic Church for one or more individuals who for whatever reason are visiting or attending outside their Rite - it would be unheard of for this to be done, just as you admit regards to how to receive the Most Holy Eucharist.

For the Melkite Church (or any other Catholic Church) to change it’s practice of the canons for each person who attends would be insanity.

Based on your logic then, I could go to a Roman Catholic Church and demand to receive the Holy Eucharist made of leavened bread - yeah that would go over real well! Exagerating to make a point. A point that: We as individuals must have respect and honor the canons of the Church we visit or attend for the duration of that visit or attendance. Churches practices/Traditions should never bend to the will of an individual who is visiting/attending outside of their Rite/Church within the Catholic Church.

May God grant you many years as well. And peace to us all.
Aileen

P.S. To all, Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[vocatio]

I’m sure you believe what you say is true. However, I recently asked a Byzantine Catholic priest about the protocol for doing this. He told me that we just needed to let him know our name when we went forward for communion. He said nothing about confirmation requirments. He explained that the Eastern Orthodox do sililar practices that you speak about Alien. But I bet that just like good intentioned priests in the Roman Catholic Church there are also Eastern Catholics that alos get some things not quite so rite. I am very interested in Eastern Catholicism and have been researching this for about a year now. I’m terrified of offending someone like this. I’ve seen so many illicit things. I’m attracted to the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern Churches. I love it. But getting my wife to follow is really difficult and my oldest son is discerning a vocation in the Latin Catholic Church. I have no right to disturb what God is doing with him. So I stay, content that God will open the door to the diaconate here in the west if it is truly His will.

 

[Woodstock]

In Aileen’s example, it seems the child is under the age of reception in the Latin Church, the child had not properly received the sacrament according to the rubrics of her own Church, and the priest was younger at the time than he is now and possibly had not faced the situation previously.

The norm is that a person who can receive in his own Church can receive in any other Catholic Church. That means an unchrismated 8 year old Latin child who has received his First Communion according to his Church’s guidelines may receive in the Melkite Church and a chrismated infant Melkite may receive in the Latin Church, and a three-year-old chrismated Chaldean may receive in a Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish which still practices First Communion at age 7.

I’ve seen Eastern Catholic priests who will commune unchrismated children who have not been communed previously (as the first priest in Aileen’s example did) and that seems to me to be more problematic. It is my understanding that an Eastern priest may not give First Communion to a Latin child without permission from the child’s ordinary. I would like to ask a canon lawyer about that some time. Has anyone here done so?

 

[wannabee]

Let’s see if we can simplify this a wee bit - it’s getting complicated.

No parent, Latin or Eastern should present their child to receive Communion if they are attending Mass or DL in a Church that is not their own , UNLESS that child receives Communion in their own Church

How about that as a sensible statement ?

 

[KathleenElsie]

I recommend that you read up on the Divine Liturgy first. It is VERY different from the Novus Ordo.

Our homeschooling family goes once or twice a month to the Liturgy at St. Mary’s in McKeesport, PA. Yes it is very different from the NO but the priest at St Mary’s is wonderful at telling us when we need to do things and all the children participate. It is a wonderful and Holy time for us all.

 

[ronyodish]

Our homeschooling family goes once or twice a month to the Liturgy at St. Mary’s in McKeesport, PA. Yes it is very different from the NO but the priest at St Mary’s is wonderful at telling us when we need to do things and all the children participate. It is a wonderful and Holy time for us all.

KathleenElsie,

Is that St. Mary Romanian Catholic Church with Fr. Paul Voida? If so, I just attended the Divine Liturgy there for the first time last Sunday with a Roman Catholic friend of mine. We then went out with Fr. Paul to a local Chinese restaurant. He’s a good and wonderful priest.

God bless,

Rony

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Let’s see if we can simplify this a wee bit - it’s getting complicated.

No parent, Latin or Eastern should present their child to receive Communion if they are attending Mass or DL in a Church that is not their own , UNLESS that child receives Communion in their own Church

How about that as a sensible statement ?

Absolutely correct, my sister

Let me extend it - No priest may licitly refuse the Eucharist to a child of another Church sui iuris if that child has been admitted to the Eucharist in their own Church sui iuris

Many years,

Neil

 

[wannabee]

Total agreement with that Neil

And as an EMHC in an RC Parish I hesitate to admit to that - but I was - probably illicitly too - but we will not go into that ] I did have my knuckles rapped for giving Communion to a wee kiddy who could have been no older than 4 - if she was that . The whole family were EC , very plain to see , and the wee one stood in front of me - I raised 1 eyebrow to her Mom who discreetly nodded .

I did really have to defend myself for that one .

 

[KathleenElsie]

KathleenElsie,

Is that St. Mary Romanian Catholic Church with Fr. Paul Voida? If so, I just attended the Divine Liturgy there for the first time last Sunday with a Roman Catholic friend of mine. We then went out with Fr. Paul to a local Chinese restaurant. He’s a good and wonderful priest.

God bless,

Rony

YES and Fr. Paul is wonderful.:dancing: We all feel just so blessed. My Latin rite grandsons serve when they are attending weekday DL.:yup: Fr. Paul takes the time to go over the differences and similarities of our rites and the kids look forward to it. LOL sometimes there are 6 to 10 adults and 20 to 30 children in attendance.:extrahappy:

 

[RCcanadian]

Well, I am guessing that Eastern Catholics have a different way of administering the Sacrament. It is just my opinion that in this case, one should stick with the form that they already know instead of receiving forgiveness in form that is foreign to them. Of course any Catholic can receive all 7 sacraments, but that’s my take on Reconciliation.

Actually, you can receive the sacrament of reconciliation from an Eastern Rite Catholic priest. I say this with certainty because I attended a very strict Catholic High School and the chaplain at our school was an Eastern Rite priest. He facilitated our liturgies throughout the year, lead us in prayer in the mornings, organized retreats and held confession anytime but at certain times of the year (Easter and Christmas and at graduation for those students graduating) every student was made to go to confession. In the sense that every student had a time assigned to them and at that time (during class) you went to see our school priest in the chapel ( it was beautiful). There were confessionals in the chapel but he encouraged face to face confessions which seriously make you think about sinning-- knowing that you are going to have to face Fr. whoever…but the sacrament of reconciliation was the same, penance was the same and everything so no worries there and obviously no worries about going to an ERC liturgy either.

 

[5Loaves]

Christ is ascended!

Actually, you can receive the sacrament of reconciliation from an Eastern Rite Catholic priest. I say this with certainty because I attended a very strict Catholic High School and the chaplain at our school was an Eastern Rite priest. He facilitated our liturgies throughout the year, lead us in prayer in the mornings, organized retreats and held confession anytime but at certain times of the year (Easter and Christmas and at graduation for those students graduating) every student was made to go to confession. In the sense that every student had a time assigned to them and at that time (during class) you went to see our school priest in the chapel ( it was beautiful). There were confessionals in the chapel but he encouraged face to face confessions which seriously make you think about sinning-- knowing that you are going to have to face Fr. whoever…but the sacrament of reconciliation was the same, penance was the same and everything so no worries there and obviously no worries about going to an ERC liturgy either.

Welcome to the CAF Eastern Catholicism section.

You’ve dusted off quite an old thread here.

Interesting experience you had as a young person.

Sounds like you maybe had a bi-ritual priest who was making some accommodations to serve in a Latin setting. Normally confession in the East is different from the West. There’s a current thread “question about Confession” which has a little about the sacrament from an Oriental Catholic and Eastern Catholic perspective.

 

[guanophore]

There is a Byzantine Church about three blocks from where DH works and we have often considered going to Mass there. But he brought up a question that neither of us knew the answer to the other day - can a Roman Rite Catholic just choose to attend a Byzantine Mass when there are Roman Rite options available for Mass? Or would attending any other Rite for that matter only be used when no Roman Rite option were available?

I’ve never even thought to post in the old Eastern forum so at the very least the change got me to make a post here!

I hope this new forum works out for everyone.

~Liza

Not only you can, but you SHOULD! Every Latin should do so at least one time. You will feel as though you have stepped back into history about 1000 years. In the East, though, it is called Divine Liturgy. “Mass” is a Latinization.