Can a Roman Catholic attend 'Anglican Catholic' mass?

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crazzeto said:
Under certain condtions, sure you can be there… If your good about aboslutly limiting your participation there, maybe… But then one considers whether or not you are putting your self in the near occation of sin. You will be tempted yes, to participate? Perhaps more than one really ought to. For instance even with our eccumenical spirit a Catholic is still aboslutly restricted from even offering a response durring worship which contains a theology contradictory to the faith, what are the chances you’ll end up violating this?

The best attitude towards this is, go if you have a real good reason to. Wedding, baptism, etc. Certainly refrain from participating in communion, even if everyone at that church says “hey man, it’s ok”… No, no it’s not ok.
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On the infrequent occasion that I attend an Episcopalian Eucharistic liturgy, I only ever sit in back, observe and listen. More frequently, however, I attend Vespers services at the local Episcopal cathedral, or Lessons and Carols during Lent and Advent. On those occasions, I do find myself singing, to be honest. I’ve often wondered if that might be going beyond what one ought to do. Anyone know for sure?

Can a Catholic legitimately sing the hymns sung at an Episcopalian Vespers service, or at a celebration of Lessons and Carols? I mean, if the Pope can pray and sing at ecumenical worship services with non-Christians, am I really tempting the wrath of the Almighty by singing “Once in Royal David’s City” at an Anglican church?
 
Pregustator said:
On the infrequent occasion that I attend an Episcopalian Eucharistic liturgy, I only ever sit in back, observe and listen. More frequently, however, I attend Vespers services at the local Episcopal cathedral, or Lessons and Carols during Lent and Advent. On those occasions, I do find myself singing, to be honest. I’ve often wondered if that might be going beyond what one ought to do. Anyone know for sure?

Can a Catholic legitimately sing the hymns sung at an Episcopalian Vespers service, or at a celebration of Lessons and Carols? I mean, if the Pope can pray and sing at ecumenical worship services with non-Christians, am I really tempting the wrath of the Almighty by singing “Once in Royal David’s City” at an Anglican church?
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That’s the question, and the problem is you really need to sit down with the materials you will be participating with and hash out the theology. To be sure, it doesn’t automatically contradict catholic teaching just because it’s anglican. But then again, Anglican theology is tainted by the 39 Articles and the heavy protistantism they introduce. As such, caution is required when participating with their liturgies of any kind (even Vespers).

There is (or soon will be at least) a vatican approved common book of prayer. Perhaps one good way to hash it out is to obtain the vatican approved version (if possible) and see where the Anglican liturgy your participating in differs from the Vatican approved versions.
 
crazzeto said:
That’s the question, and the problem is you really need to sit down with the materials you will be participating with and hash out the theology. To be sure, it doesn’t automatically contradict catholic teaching just because it’s anglican. But then again, Anglican theology is tainted by the 39 Articles and the heavy protistantism they introduce. As such, caution is required when participating with their liturgies of any kind (even Vespers).

There is (or soon will be at least) a vatican approved common book of prayer. Perhaps one good way to hash it out is to obtain the vatican approved version (if possible) and see where the Anglican liturgy your participating in differs from the Vatican approved versions.
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If a Catholic attends and participates in a Choral Evensong I see no problems from a theological point of view, that is unless Holy Scripture offends you. The hymns, collects, readings are either taken directly from the bible or are paraphrases thereof. Based on CAF music discussions, it looks like the typical Catholic parish sings hymns, songs and service music composed by protestants all the time.
 
Pregustator said:
I think that’s the right way to put it. You can go to an Anglican service, or to an Anglo-Catholic service, but doing so on Sunday, obviously, will not fulfill your obligation. I attend Anglican services at the local Episcopalian cathedral frequently, because they’re so incomparably beautiful: Mass, Vespers, what have you. But I don’t do this in place of Catholic Mass and services, mind you. I do this after fulfilling my obligation, because after all of the lack of beauty, majesty, and solemnity that my own Church offers, I need to get my ceremonial fix from the Episcopalians.

If the parish in question is an Anglican Use parish, then it is an actual Roman Catholic Church and attendance at Mass there does fulfill your Sunday obligation. You’ll want to find out whether it is a Catholic church or not.
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This is exactly why I went Byzantine when I reverted back. I was so dissolusioned with the abuses of the Novus Ordo, and fell in love with the beauty and reverence of the Divine Liturgy.
 
Actually Anglican hymns are very Catholic, there might be an exception with the newer hymnal they use, but not the one from 1940. They are the same hymns sung in my parish. Of course I attend a traditional parish and we use an old hymnal, not one of the contemporary ones, which I find some of the hymns protestant in many of them.

As a former Anglo Catholic I would participate in singing the Creed, Gloria etc. but not in taking Holy Communion, nor genuflecting towards their altar. I asked my priest who is very traditional and old fashioned if I could bow at the crucifix as I am attending a meeting, which included Benediction, Mass and talks by an Anglican priest and an Anglican Use Catholic priest to the congregation to inform them as to why they should come into the Ordinariate. It is my old parish and I will show respect as long as my Pastor says it is okay.

Actually to be honest at least in most Anglo Catholic parishes you would find their liturgy to be more in line with the EF than the OF. As long as I acknowledge the fact that Blessed Sacrament is not valid in the church, singing the same words we sing at Mass don’t appear to be going against the Churches teachings. Also I am very excited that my old parish might become Catholic and want to be there to see how people are responding to the offer.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
BernadetteM said:
Actually Anglican hymns are very Catholic, there might be an exception with the newer hymnal they use, but not the one from 1940. They are the same hymns sung in my parish. Of course I attend a traditional parish and we use an old hymnal, not one of the contemporary ones, which I find some of the hymns protestant in many of them.

As a former Anglo Catholic I would participate in singing the Creed, Gloria etc. but not in taking Holy Communion, nor genuflecting towards their altar. I asked my priest who is very traditional and old fashioned if I could bow at the crucifix as I am attending a meeting, which included Benediction, Mass and talks by an Anglican priest and an Anglican Use Catholic priest to the congregation to inform them as to why they should come into the Ordinariate. It is my old parish and I will show respect as long as my Pastor says it is okay.

Actually to be honest at least in most Anglo Catholic parishes you would find their liturgy to be more in line with the EF than the OF. As long as I acknowledge the fact that Blessed Sacrament is not valid in the church, singing the same words we sing at Mass don’t appear to be going against the Churches teachings. Also I am very excited that my old parish might become Catholic and want to be there to see how people are responding to the offer.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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It’s a wonderful development, this bringing in to our Catholic culture the Anglican approach to liturgy, which I have always admired and appreciated. The Anglican converts and their liturgy may well serve to set a good example for the rest of the Church in the English-speaking world with respect to how to deliver liturgical worship well.

Take away the female Episcopal ministers, if one were to attend the principal pontifical liturgy at the Roman Catholic cathedral in my diocese on a given high feast day, and then witness on the same feast the principal pontifical liturgy at the Episcopal cathedral a block away, most people, I think, would have to conclude that the Episcopal cathedral delivered a far more impressive and rather more Catholic-seeming ceremony than the Catholic cathedral did.

From the music, to the vestments, to the reverence, to the ceremonial precision, to the six candles on the high altar, to the incense, the Episcopal ceremony reminds one so much of the “old” Catholic Mass, only that it is in English, and devoid of the very severe restrictions of the pre-Vatican II liturgy. And this is a cathedral that describes itself, not even as “High Church” but as “Broad Church” (middle of the road).

At any rate, ceremonially and liturgically speaking, I believe that the embrace of Anglican converts and their customs can only enhance the worship experience of Roman Catholics in our anglophone world.
 
elgar said:
…Based on CAF music discussions, it looks like the typical Catholic parish sings hymns, songs and service music composed by protestants all the time.
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Yup. Who doesn’t like “Ein’ feste Burg”?
 
Why would anglicans use one of our most famous Roman Catholic saints??
 
Catholic87 said:
Why would anglicans use one of our most famous Roman Catholic saints??
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Which saint are you referring to? Anglicans have recognized almost all the Catholic saints, as really there are no others, except some within the Orthodox Church.

The Anglican Communion doesn’t have the right to decide who are saints and declare
one anyway.

God Bless

Bernadette
 
CB_Catholic said:
As of now, those Anglican parishes that have come into communion with the Catholic Church are called “Anglican Use” parishes. They are Roman Catholic, not Anglican, but their Liturgy is one from their Anglican roots. Any Catholic may attend Mass there, but there aren’t many of them, maybe 6 or 7 in the US. The parish you are talking about is probably not one of them–I did a Google search and didn’t find any in New Jersey. They would identify themselves as Roman Catholic and would call themselves an “Anglican Use” parish, not an Anglican Catholic parish, and they only exist in this country.

A Catholic may not fulfill his Sunday obligation at an Anglican Parish or receive Communion there. The current situation of some Anglican bodies wanting to come into communion with the Catholic Church and establishing Ordinariates is currently being worked out with Rome. Someone else may be able to fill in on the details, I’m not that up on it, but I believe that is mostly happening in England.

Our Lady of the Atonement in Texas is an Anglican Use parish–they have a website which you can Google and read about them, and I believe they have the words to the Liturgy there also.
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and where did you get that from? as far as i know watching a priest the other on EWTN, they themselves said that Catholics may not go to their services. they can come to the CC but Catholics are not pass on to their churches. that is what i heard from Anglicans priests making their way to Rome.
 
wisdomseeker said:
and where did you get that from? as far as i know watching a priest the other on EWTN, they themselves said that Catholics may not go to their services. they can come to the CC but Catholics are not pass on to their churches. that is what i heard from Anglicans priests making their way to Rome.
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Catholics do not fulfill their obligation by attending a service at an Anglican church, but Anglican Use parishes are Roman Catholic parishes that utilize a Vatican-approved version of the Anglican liturgy. Although this is primarily for the benefit of Anglican congregations that have converted to the Roman Catholic Church, any Roman Catholic may participate in the liturgy offered at an Anglican Use venue, and, in doing so, fulfill his obligation.
 
wisdomseeker said:
and where did you get that from? as far as i know watching a priest the other on EWTN, they themselves said that Catholics may not go to their services. they can come to the CC but Catholics are not pass on to their churches. that is what i heard from Anglicans priests making their way to Rome.
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Catholics may not become official members of the Anglican Use Parishes but they are free to attend Mass there
 
ConstantineTG said:
Catholics may not become official members of the Anglican Use Parishes but they are free to attend Mass there
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Actually there are many Latin Rite Catholics who are registered members in some of the Anglican Use parishes.

Once the Ordinariate is established I believe you will see more of them joining these parishes.

At this point I think it depends on the local Bishop whether one can register as a member, but once the Ordinariates are established they will not be under the local Bishop, but an Ordinary.

Although some might see Anglican Use parishes as a negative, they are really a plus for the Church, as there are many Catholics who don’t want to attend an OF Mass and the same goes for the EF, but the Anglican Use Mass has the reverence, beautiful music and is in the vernacular, except at some settings of the liturgy when parts are sung in Latin. Which appeals to Catholics who don’t feel comfortable with the Latin, but want a more traditional liturgy.

These parishes have brought back Catholics who didn’t feel they fit in either choice of the Latin Rite liturgies. The AU Mass is a Latin Rite liturgy.

We will have to wait and see how Rome and the CDF handles all the details once the Ordinariates are established. At this point there are many unanswered questions.

God Bless

Bernadette
 
BernadetteM said:
Actually there are many Latin Rite Catholics who are registered members in some of the Anglican Use parishes.

Once the Ordinariate is established I believe you will see more of them joining these parishes.

At this point I think it depends on the local Bishop whether one can register as a member, but once the Ordinariates are established they will not be under the local Bishop, but an Ordinary.

Although some might see Anglican Use parishes as a negative, they are really a plus for the Church, as there are many Catholics who don’t want to attend an OF Mass and the same goes for the EF, but the Anglican Use Mass has the reverence, beautiful music and is in the vernacular, except at some settings of the liturgy when parts are sung in Latin. Which appeals to Catholics who don’t feel comfortable with the Latin, but want a more traditional liturgy.

These parishes have brought back Catholics who didn’t feel they fit in either choice of the Latin Rite liturgies. The AU Mass is a Latin Rite liturgy.

We will have to wait and see how Rome and the CDF handles all the details once the Ordinariates are established. At this point there are many unanswered questions.

God Bless

Bernadette
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and where does the Church teaches that?
 
BernadetteM said:
Actually there are many Latin Rite Catholics who are registered members in some of the Anglican Use parishes.

Once the Ordinariate is established I believe you will see more of them joining these parishes.

At this point I think it depends on the local Bishop whether one can register as a member, but once the Ordinariates are established they will not be under the local Bishop, but an Ordinary.

Although some might see Anglican Use parishes as a negative, they are really a plus for the Church, as there are many Catholics who don’t want to attend an OF Mass and the same goes for the EF, but the Anglican Use Mass has the reverence, beautiful music and is in the vernacular, except at some settings of the liturgy when parts are sung in Latin. Which appeals to Catholics who don’t feel comfortable with the Latin, but want a more traditional liturgy.

These parishes have brought back Catholics who didn’t feel they fit in either choice of the Latin Rite liturgies. The AU Mass is a Latin Rite liturgy.

We will have to wait and see how Rome and the CDF handles all the details once the Ordinariates are established. At this point there are many unanswered questions.

God Bless

Bernadette
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Not sure if it will be the Bishop or the Vatican who would prevent people from switching parishes. Like with Eastern Catholics, its more likely a Latin Catholic can switch to an Eastern Church than for an Eastern to Latin Rite because the Vatican doesn’t want to deplete the already small numbers of Eastern Catholics, and they want to maintain their membership if not grow so that the traditions will be preserved.

But I agree with you that the AU could provide a great option for those who seek traditinalism but wants it in the vernacular.
 
wisdomseeker said:
and where did you get that from? as far as i know watching a priest the other on EWTN, they themselves said that Catholics may not go to their services. they can come to the CC but Catholics are not pass on to their churches. that is what i heard from Anglicans priests making their way to Rome.
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Anglican Use parishes are those that have already “made their way to Rome”. They are no longer Anglican churches but Catholic Churches using a form of the Mass that retains (but is not exactly like) some of the elements of a traditional Anglican Mass. Prior to the most recent overture, there were 7 Anglican Use parishes in the US (mostly in Texas). Most Catholics are unlikely to have encountered one and may not even know they exist.

Here’s some interesting reading on the Pastoral Privalege.

pastoralprovision.org/
 
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