Can a spouse *demand* children?

[graceandglory]

How is it cold? Granted he’s for NFP not artificial contraception but his poor wife how long is she supposed to wait? If he’s soooooo against a child because of debt how is my comment (which is not accusatory btw but a hope-not thing) about abortion “cold”? I’ve personally know people that try the NFP/contraception route then the baby is there then it’s still NO WAY we can’t afford it…ie he pushes for abortion. NOTICE I DID** NOT** SAY THE OP WOULD DO THAT BUT THAT I HOPE HE WOULDN’T.

DoT

I was in that kind of a “marriage.” It was a grievous situation. I was on forced birth control for the entirety of it. When I did get pregnant on artificial birth control, I feared both times that my “Christian” husband would force me to get an abortion. It really is the next step. He absolutely did not want me to have a child with him and I was always afraid of him. As a fundamentalist, I thought the highest good was to be a submissive wife, and that I would be following God’s will if I did that. (I had stepped out of the Catholic Church, and didn’t know better). I really didn’t know what I would do if he would force me to abort. Yet I realized that was in his heart.

 

[graceandglory]

I know a woman who wanted more children very badly, but her husband insisted on using birth control. She would not cooperate with it. She asked her priest if she could secretly defeat the birth control in order to open their marriage to children. The priest told her that while she was correct in refusing her cooperation with her husband’s decision to contracept, her intended deception would not be morally permissible. .

That was what my heart told me to do also. My life is a testimony that God can work miracles even through that. My twins were conceived because I got sick and took antibiotics – in a foreign country-- !

 

[graceandglory]

I think you wife is wrong to threaten you with divorce, but I also think it is wrong for you to dismiss her longing for a child.

In my situation, my X’s refusal to ever want to even talk about having children, when I was grieving the loss of my hopes and dreams, the loss of motherhood, the loss of what I had longed for my whole life, was indicative of the nullity of the sacrament. He had no clue what marriage was about, and entered into it lying to me. You can’t even imagine the aftershock I was in after we married and he told me this.

The wife in this situation sounds like she is going through what I went through. It’s possible her husband never intended to make a sacramental marriage with her. If she is realizing that he will never be open to children, it is wise for her to talk to a priest about a possible annulment, so that she can be open to a real sacramental marriage while she is still young.

I pray I have not given any advice that is not faithful to Catholic teaching.

 

[ac_claire]

I’d like to toss this into the discussion. I’ve been married almost years now, and my wife still isn’t pregnant. To be honest, I was slightly shocked when a previous poster considered that 2 years was a terribly long time. Now, our situation had other factors (both laid off 2 months into the marriage, ~1.5 moths after that we had a mere $13 in the check book; now I’m starting law school in August). However, I feel perfectly fine in saying that a valid reason to hold off on children for a bit is just to spend time as a couple and get used to being married before adding one or more new people into the mix. Now, not everyone may want to, and that’s fine. But let’s not be so quick to decry those who do.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

Indeed, and you’ll notice that I said as much. And I’m certainly not denying that some may not want to wait. And congrats on the almost-honeymoon baby. But I was only responding to the shock that some people seemed to have about waiting two whole years to have a baby, and trying to raise an issue that hadn’t been mentioned before.

Sam, the Neon Orange Knight

Personally, I wouldn’t say I’m shocked by a couple waiting two years to have children. But I do question it. (In a general sense…I’m not gonna go around and question your individual situations- it’s your life and your situation.) My concern is that the attitude you’re expressing here…that you think it’s perfectly valid to put off having children so the couple can get used to being married, and get to know eachother, etc…is sort of unnaturally separating marriage from procreation. Like, marriage is one thing, and kids are *another *thing…a cool extra you can add in when you’re ready for it. The Church says that the two are inseperable. A true Christian marriage is one that is ordered toward the procreation of children. That means the basis and foundation and the flesh and bone of the marriage is ordered to this end. I think the attitude of separating the “couple” part of marriage so much from the “having children” part of marriage is a social trend that leads to children being seen as an optional, extra choice. Instead of procreation being part of the marriage from the very beginning, from the vows onward, which is how the Church defines it.

 

[EasterJoy]

In my situation, my X’s refusal to ever want to even talk about having children, when I was grieving the loss of my hopes and dreams, the loss of motherhood, the loss of what I had longed for my whole life, was indicative of the nullity of the sacrament. He had no clue what marriage was about, and entered into it lying to me. You can’t even imagine the aftershock I was in after we married and he told me this.

The wife in this situation sounds like she is going through what I went through. It’s possible her husband never intended to make a sacramental marriage with her. If she is realizing that he will never be open to children, it is wise for her to talk to a priest about a possible annulment, so that she can be open to a real sacramental marriage while she is still young.

I pray I have not given any advice that is not faithful to Catholic teaching.

The OP never said he doesn’t want children! He’s asking about his wife’s assertions:
“My wife argues that God will provide and that her Grandmother had a bunch of kids that she couldn’t afford, and they are all fine. Furthermore, she is threatening a divorce if I am not willing to start having kids now. She says that it is grounds for annulment because we are not open to children, and that she has a marital right to children, and that I cannot withhold children if she wants them.”

Does the Church say that married couples must be open to children regardless of whether they can reasonably expect to support them, because God always provides? No
Does the Church say that wanting to delay childbearing because the couple is already deeply in debt is proof that the marriage vows were invalid? No
Does the Church say that if either party wants children immediately, the marriage is invalidated if the other party does not give in? No

The OP is not withholding marital relations. They are not contracepting. He also does not say he does not want children, only that he believes it to be irresponsible to have them now. The wife does not have proof of her assertion that the marriage is invalid. As the couple is still married, the Church would presume the marriage is valid. Threatening divorce is counter-productive.

It is time for discussions, not threats. This story can come out in a way that satisfies everyone’s need to do their duty before God. Many people have families while paying off educational debts. That doesn’t happen automatically, though. Finanical stressors have been known to ruin marriages and families. It is prudent to consider economics when deciding how to use NFP. It may be that with a sacrificial change to their standard of living, though, this couple will very soon be in a position to reasonably service their remaining debt while still being able to support their children.

 

[ac_claire]

The OP never said he doesn’t want children! He’s asking about his wife’s assertions:
“My wife argues that God will provide and that her Grandmother had a bunch of kids that she couldn’t afford, and they are all fine. Furthermore, she is threatening a divorce if I am not willing to start having kids now. She says that it is grounds for annulment because we are not open to children, and that she has a marital right to children, and that I cannot withhold children if she wants them.”

Does the Church say that married couples must be open to children regardless of whether they can reasonably expect to support them, because God always provides? No
Does the Church say that wanting to delay childbearing because the couple is already deeply in debt is proof that the marriage vows were invalid? No
Does the Church say that if either party wants children immediately, the marriage is invalidated if the other party does not give in? No

Good post…but it shuld be pointed out that the issue isn’t the wife wanting children “immediately”. According to the OP, they’ve already been married for 2 years. Barring any kind of emergency situation, that’s (arguably) an awful long time to be using NFP. And as far as if they can “reasonably afford” having kids…there is no issue of losing their shelter or being out on the streets with no food, etc. The issue (again, according to the OP himself) is that he wishes to pay off some more debt first.

So…I can definitely see his wife’s point, too. Having children is a part of marriage, not an “extra” thing to be added when it feels right.

 

[EasterJoy]

Good post…but it shuld be pointed out that the issue isn’t the wife wanting children “immediately”. According to the OP, they’ve already been married for 2 years. Barring any kind of emergency situation, that’s (arguably) an awful long time to be using NFP. And as far as if they can “reasonably afford” having kids…there is no issue of losing their shelter or being out on the streets with no food, etc. The issue (again, according to the OP himself) is that he wishes to pay off some more debt first.

So…I can definitely see his wife’s point, too. Having children is a part of marriage, not an “extra” thing to be added when it feels right.

If they married with no financial footings, or quickly got themselves past their eyeballs in debt, they wouldn’t be the first couple to do it. There is a point where you have to say that getting married in the first place took a certain tolerance of risk, yes, you’re right about that. The wife has a point. Still, if all you’ve accomplished in the first 2 years of marriage is to bury yourself deeper in a hole from which no sane person would want to try to support a family, you still have a grave economic situation. The fact that using NFP to postpone children is getting really, really hard and very, very old, while the biological clock continues to tick does not change that.

Having said that, there is no real financial safety in this world, at least not if your spending always rises faster than your income. You have to know the difference between a want and a need, or you’re going to get the chills every time you think of money. Marriage takes sacrifices, and living far enough within your means to provide for children is one of them. Marriages *need *to be open to children. If finances are the obstacle, the couple has a duty to remove the obstacle in the most timely manner that is reasonably possible, not just avoid children in the hopes that their finances will magically get better.

That’s something for the OP and his wife to hash out. It may be that both parties are going to have to move out of their comfort zone to come to a decision.

 

[graceandglory]

The OP never said he doesn’t want children! He’s asking about his wife’s assertions:
“My wife argues that God will provide and that her Grandmother had a bunch of kids that she couldn’t afford, and they are all fine. Furthermore, she is threatening a divorce if I am not willing to start having kids now. She says that it is grounds for annulment because we are not open to children, and that she has a marital right to children, and that I cannot withhold children if she wants them.”

Does the Church say that married couples must be open to children regardless of whether they can reasonably expect to support them, because God always provides? No
Does the Church say that wanting to delay childbearing because the couple is already deeply in debt is proof that the marriage vows were invalid? No
Does the Church say that if either party wants children immediately, the marriage is invalidated if the other party does not give in? No

The OP is not withholding marital relations. They are not contracepting. He also does not say he does not want children, only that he believes it to be irresponsible to have them now. The wife does not have proof of her assertion that the marriage is invalid. As the couple is still married, the Church would presume the marriage is valid. Threatening divorce is counter-productive.

It is time for discussions, not threats. This story can come out in a way that satisfies everyone’s need to do their duty before God. Many people have families while paying off educational debts. That doesn’t happen automatically, though. Finanical stressors have been known to ruin marriages and families. It is prudent to consider economics when deciding how to use NFP. It may be that with a sacrificial change to their standard of living, though, this couple will very soon be in a position to reasonably service their remaining debt while still being able to support their children.

Dear Easter joy,
Sheesh! What part of “It’s possible…” don’t you understand?

Did I hit a nerve or what? All I did was share my experience. My experience was real, and my husband didn’t ever intend to bring about a sacramental marriage and family with me. I was always submissive to him. At the beginning he made it sound so holy. My experience is my experience. I was on forced contraception for 12 yrs and marital relations were refused for 3. I never made any threats. I also didn’t understand what a Sacramental Marriage was at the time. The highest aim for a protestant wife was to submit to her husband. I did that. We can all learn from one another. Peace be with you.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

If they married with no financial footings, or quickly got themselves past their eyeballs in debt, they wouldn’t be the first couple to do it. There is a point where you have to say that getting married in the first place took a certain tolerance of risk, yes, you’re right about that. The wife has a point. Still, if all you’ve accomplished in the first 2 years of marriage is to bury yourself deeper in a hole from which no sane person would want to try to support a family, you still have a grave economic situation. The fact that using NFP to postpone children is getting really, really hard and very, very old, while the biological clock continues to tick does not change that.

Having said that, there is no real financial safety in this world, at least not if your spending always rises faster than your income. You have to know the difference between a want and a need, or you’re going to get the chills every time you think of money. Marriage takes sacrifices, and living far enough within your means to provide for children is one of them. Marriages *need *to be open to children. If finances are the obstacle, the couple has a duty to remove the obstacle in the most timely manner that is reasonably possible, not just avoid children in the hopes that their finances will magically get better.

That’s something for the OP and his wife to hash out. It may be that both parties are going to have to move out of their comfort zone to come to a decision.

 

[EasterJoy]

Dear Easter joy,
Sheesh! What part of “It’s possible…” don’t you understand?

Did I hit a nerve or what? All I did was share my experience. My experience was real, and my husband didn’t ever intend to bring about a sacramental marriage and family with me. I was always submissive to him. At the beginning he made it sound so holy. My experience is my experience. I was on forced contraception for 12 yrs and marital relations were refused for 3. I never made any threats. I also didn’t understand what a Sacramental Marriage was at the time. The highest aim for a protestant wife was to submit to her husband. I did that. We can all learn from one another. Peace be with you.

I understood “It’s possible her husband never intended to make a sacramental marriage with her” very well. I did not say it was impossible. I gave reasons that it was less than likely that the OP is giving his wife the same treatment as your husband gave you.

Let’s remember that the thread was started by the husband, not the wife. He did not ask “Is it true that our marriage isn’t valid unless we are open to children?” He asked, “Is it true that our marriage isn’t valid unless we are open to children right now?” The truth is, the validity of the marriage depends on whether the couple was open to children when they made their vows. Although the choice to sin later sometimes indicates that the original vows were only lip service, a change in heart doesn’t render a valid marriage invalid. His wife may be in for a very rude awakening in her understanding of canon law.

You went through a tragedy, and it is worth it for the OP to think about. The flip-side is, though, that the OP’s wife could throw away a valid marriage only to find that she is not free to marry after she ruins it, because the tribunal finds that she ruined a valid marriage. Her misconceptions about this question could prove to be what robs her of the family she hopes for, not her husband. That would be a great, great tragedy, too, for more reasons than we want to count up.

 

[HHMom]

I will answer more to the money concerns.

What will be the financial impact of having a baby?

1. Will your wife have to stop work? If not, there’s no impact.
2. Food. If she’ll breastfeed and puree table food, this is no impact.
3. Diapers. Ok there will be an impact wether you use disposable or cloth.
4. Clothes. The baby shower will cover you for 6 months to a year if you have a bunch of smart moms buying the clothes. After that do you know how many unworn, unsoiled baby clothes hang in second hand shops? Do you know how many friends would love to share clothes with someone who needs them?
5. Crib, carriage or car seat. At best you should only have to get one carriage and two car seats over the child’s lifetime. Unless one of the g-ma’s wants to buy you one, a second hand one can be found for nothing if you look hard enough. All 3 can be had with a baby shower.

Speaking as a mom, this is not insurmountable.

To this mom the “real” cost of raising a kid hits when it’s time for college. THAT’s the big expense.

Good Luck! B

p.s. Look up Jim-Bob and Michelle Duggar on the internet if you are still concerned about raising a family and not having all your ducks in a row.

 

[pconwell]

Wow, I didn’t think this topic would get so popular. I really appreciate everyones thoughts. I’ve been reading and studying, and I have learned a lot. Keep up the good discussion!

Just an FYI, My wife and I have a meeting scheduled with a priest next week (the week of the 14th.)

Thanks again.

 

[mommamaree]

Wow, I didn’t think this topic would get so popular. I really appreciate everyones thoughts. I’ve been reading and studying, and I have learned a lot. Keep up the good discussion!

Just an FYI, My wife and I have a meeting scheduled with a priest next week (the week of the 14th.)

Thanks again.

I hope you don’t mind if I add my two cents here. My husband and I (a long time prior to becoming Catholics) had a ‘five-year plan’ that never decreased. First it was to get us through college (we married at 19). Then it was to pay off school debt, and then it was to get my husband established in his career, and then it was to get me through grad school (for which I got paid, but ultimately decided I didn’t want to finish the degree). The ‘five-year plan’ always had financial reasons for its basis, but it never got any shorter in our perspective. One day, after repeating to a childless friend who asserted I would be the first to have babies that my husband and I have a ‘five-year plan’, I realized how hollow and shallow those words sounded to me suddenly. I wondered, ‘why are we still waiting?’ So I went home and asked my husband, in all sincerity, why in the world are we still postponing having babies. He thought about it and seemed troubled too. Suddenly, we both got excited about baby-making and we knew that we were more than ready for this great adventure. But my husband and I were in agreement from the beginning of our relationship that neither of us would push the other to acquiesce to having children before we were ready, especially since we were married so young. But in truth, I had wanted a baby for years before that day, and had kept my desires to myself because I didn’t want to burden my husband with guilt over making me wait. When a couple is in accord, it is a wonderful thing, so exciting and romantic. But if one person or the other feels guilted or forced or on the other hand, denied something precious that was promised to them, this can lead to serious marital discord, as you are experiencing.
OP, I hope that your wife can have a productive and frank conversation with you about why now is the time, in her mind, to start your family. I hope that you can have compassion for her need for a baby, and respond with kindness. Some men do not understand the physical longing that women have in their mid-20s or later to have a child with the man they love. At times, it is almost like a grieving or a hunger. Our bodies were simply designed to nurture and nourish life, and sexual fulfillment with our husbands leads to us having needs for the fulfillment of being with child, giving birth, and breastfeeding that child. Even if prudence requires you to wait a bit longer to build some financial stability, give your wife something to look forward to. Begin planning with her and talking about your hopes and dreams for your babies and growing family. Talk about preparations you can make in your home to welcome a baby. These things can give her hope that you and she are on the same page, but that you are taking your role as husband and father, and by extension, financial provider, very seriously.
I understand her heartache, but I also understand your reasons for delaying. Both are valid and should be addressed in your conversations. Neither of you should feel like your fears or dreams are being dismissed. There is always a way to come to a satisfactory compromise in these situations. God bless you both.

 

[SMHW]

Even if prudence requires you to wait a bit longer to build some financial stability, give your wife something to look forward to. Begin planning with her and talking about your hopes and dreams for your babies and growing family. Talk about preparations you can make in your home to welcome a baby. These things can give her hope that you and she are on the same page, but that you are taking your role as husband and father, and by extension, financial provider, very seriously.
I understand her heartache, but I also understand your reasons for delaying. Both are valid and should be addressed in your conversations. Neither of you should feel like your fears or dreams are being dismissed. There is always a way to come to a satisfactory compromise in these situations. God bless you both.

:clapping:

 

[yladoob]

Hello fellow Catholics. I am the wife you have all been discussing and praying for. Please accept my deepest and most humble gratitude for your discernment and prayers and for sharing your intimate experiences with my husband. It has helped him tremendously in the past few weeks.

Our situation:
NFP: We have only begun to use NFP to avoid pregnancy. And when I say begun, I mean the day he posted his question. I am very grateful to him that we no longer use a barrier for the marital act. However, I feel it would help illuminate the situation for those of you wondering why I “threatened” to divorce him if we did not begin trying to conceive.
**The validity of our marriage: **Neither of us had ever heard of the right to the marital act open to procreation before we married and we only spoke with a priest once. And that discussion was more about paperwork than it was about marriage. After that, we went to an engaged couple’s retreat which we thoroughly disliked and ignored and had one session with the deacon who would marry us in only a few weeks. Bottom line: we were not prepared for marriage. We married out of the fear of being alone and out of an unhealthy codependency. I ignored Catholic teaching and intended to postpone children because it was what my husband wanted. He thought and said it would be immoral to have children or to even use NFP to avoid children until we were out of debt. I did not have the courage or self-confidence to end our relationship. I also learned that at the time of the marriage, he thought and hoped that I would “grow out” of Catholicism. To be fair, I also hoped and prayed that he would convert.

Our current situation: As I became more aware of myself and God’s desires for me, I began to ask my husband for more. Things like openness to procreation, a deeper connection between us, and participation in the Church. He had never intended to give me these things. He often stated his desire to get a vasectomy after we had 3 or 4 children. I told him I could not agree with the use of artificial birth control any longer and asked Arch Bishop Timothy Dolan of New York how to handle that. He said a last resort would be to let my husband use contraception that I would not participate in. (Barrier) So, we did that. However, I couldn’t help but wonder if our marriage was valid. If we gravely lacked the understanding of the vows we took, why should I hold him to them? I did not threaten to divorce. I merely asked if the vows never happened, why should we prolong our assumed marriage. Let me also say that I understand why my husband worded it like this. We were both angry, confused and upset. I’m sure it sounded at some point that I was threatening to divorce.
Since then, my husband has decided to become Catholic. However, as many of you have stated, it doesn’t matter what happens during the course of your marriage. What matters is what happened when you said your vows. I truly believe that our marriage is invalid. I know I did not understand what I promised and I’m 99% sure he did not either.

The question is: Does God want you to keep the promises you did not know you were making?

I’m sure we could reconcile and have a productive and healthy life with the changes we’ve made. However, neither of us married out of mutual respect, trust or love. I want my husband to have a good sacramental marriage with someone he falls in love with, not someone he woke up married to. And I want that for myself as well. Is that selfish?

 

[mommamaree]

Yladoob -
Dear sister in Christ, your post just broke my heart. My husband and I recently became confirmed in the Catholic Church, and had to learn all about sacramental marriage, prior to our convalidation ceremony. We had NO idea what Christian marriage was meant to be, but we did know that we deeply loved each other, and always have, and neither of us has any intention of allowing for divorce. We are still learning about what sacramental marriage requires of us, but we went ahead with convalidation (we had to in order to be confirmed, as I was baptized Catholic as a baby but not raised in the Church) because we knew that Catholic marriage was the type of marriage we intended to enter into when we eloped at 19, although we later realized that our marriage was not valid. Our previous intentions regarding lifelong marriage to each other led us to quickly do what we needed to do in order to make our marriage sacramental. Now we have the comfort in knowing that divorce isn’t even an option, because in God’s eyes, we will always be bound together. But that prior intention and deep love was already there, and in your situation, you believe that it is not. But would you like that to be true for you? Would you like for God to make your marriage into something that can be treasured, not only by you, but by all your family, friends, children, grandchildren, greatgrandchildren? Would you like for God to make your love for each other bloom into a gorgeous rose that never withers? Because God can do all these things, and more, for you and your husband. You both seem to be good people who respect each other and care about each other. Perhaps you lost your way a bit. But God will always lead you back to the Truth. Why not ask God to save the marriage you already have with your husband, rather than worrying about annulment and divorce and remarriage. You are in a marriage already, and no one can tell you if you could get an annulment until after a civil divorce has happened. So why take the risk? Why not work with the bonds of love that already bind you to your husband, and ask God to deepen and multiply those bonds? You and your husband are already doing your best to learn how to live faithfully according to the teachings of the Catholic Church, so why not continue this process?
Please prayerfully consider this. The fallout from divorce is tremendous. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy, so I certainly hope you and your husband can be spared this agony.

 

[Pug]

Welcome to the discussion, yladoob.

There is a lot of information here in your post. I’m very glad you two are going to visit a priest soon. I think the definitive answers to some of the questions will have to wait until that meeting. With the deep concerns about validity or invalidity, you are going to need a priest to sort it out. A priest is where you would start if you desire to fix the marriage if it is currently invalid. Also, a priest is where you would go to begin an annulment process, although those are not begun until the couple is divorced, generally. I know you want answers right now, but truly the priest is where a Catholic goes to begin either process. Also, it is quite possible that the priest may give you the assurance that you need to go forward with your marriage.

I’m so sorry the marriage preparation that you two received did not ultimately provide enough preparation and information to you. Unfortunately, that has happened to many people. Now you are in pain because of it, doubting that your marriage was ever valid. I imagine this is a huge turmoil in both of your minds. Your clarification about only starting NFP in the last week or two helped, by the way. I did not realize that from the original post, so I expect some others may not have realized it either. Contraceptive use at the start of a marriage is not a guaranteed proof of invalidity, though.

Answering your red question is a tough one. God may be calling both of you now to a deeper understanding of marriage and your love for each other. Be open to that possibility. But, I don’t know, maybe you are exploring saying something like, “If this marriage is invalid, then I don’t consent to having it made valid.” I can’t tell. I could be imposing ideas that went through my mind once onto you. Also, I’m not sure if you want to explore that idea in front of your husband on the forum. The amount of pain a statement like that can cause is huge. Perhaps wait until more information is gotten from the priest, if that is the trend of your thoughts.

I wish I had the wisdom to counsel you better. Peace be with you. :hug1:

 

[Onegin]

That’s not totally true. Economic reasons can be a valid reason to postpone childbearing through NFP.
Read Responsible Parenthood by Pope John Paul II.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP840801.HTM

Respectfully, I disagree. If, before they are even married, the couple knows that they are economically unable to have children from the outset, a good Priest should counsel them against getting married at that time since the primary purpose of marriage in the first place is the procreation of children (as I quoted in the prior post). This is why I say that couples who start using NFP from the start have already confused it’s intended purpose. Companionship, and all the physical elements of marriage are secondary purposes that must remain secondary.

Where the economic hardships arise after the marriage and were not contemplated beforehand, (that is to say, that the couple at the time of marriage were fully open to children at that time) that is a different issue and may - again at the counsel of a good Priest - be a more appropriate situation to discuss NFP.

All of the above should be framed in light of the fact that I take a very dim view of NFP in the first place, as I believe that had NFP use been widespread amongst Catholics in the past as it is today, there is a great likelihood that the Church would have had a lot fewer Saints and Popes.

But then, this isn’t a very popular idea these days, is it? Modern man loves to be in control of every decision, even those that should belong to God alone.

 

[graceandglory]

. My husband and I (a long time prior to becoming Catholics) had a ‘five-year plan’ that never decreased. First it was to get us through college (we married at 19). Then it was to pay off school debt, and then it was to get my husband established in his career, and then it was to get me through grad school (for which I got paid, but ultimately decided I didn’t want to finish the degree). The ‘five-year plan’ always had financial reasons for its basis, but it never got any shorter in our perspective. One day, after repeating to a childless friend who asserted I would be the first to have babies that my husband and I have a ‘five-year plan’, I realized how hollow and shallow those words sounded to me suddenly. I wondered, ‘why are we still waiting?’ So I went home and asked my husband, in all sincerity, why in the world are we still postponing having babies. He thought about it and seemed troubled too. Suddenly, we both got excited about baby-making and we knew that we were more than ready for this great adventure. But my husband and I were in agreement from the beginning of our relationship that neither of us would push the other to acquiesce to having children before we were ready, especially since we were married so young. But in truth, I had wanted a baby for years before that day, and had kept my desires to myself because I didn’t want to burden my husband with guilt over making me wait. When a couple is in accord, it is a wonderful thing, so exciting and romantic. But if one person or the other feels guilted or forced or on the other hand, denied something precious that was promised to them, this can lead to serious marital discord, as you are experiencing.
OP, I hope that your wife can have a productive and frank conversation with you about why now is the time, in her mind, to start your family. I hope that you can have compassion for her need for a baby, and respond with kindness. Some men do not understand the physical longing that women have in their mid-20s or later to have a child with the man they love. At times, it is almost like a grieving or a hunger. Our bodies were simply designed to nurture and nourish life, and sexual fulfillment with our husbands leads to us having needs for the fulfillment of being with child, giving birth, and breastfeeding that child. Even if prudence requires you to wait a bit longer to build some financial stability, give your wife something to look forward to. Begin planning with her and talking about your hopes and dreams for your babies and growing family. Talk about preparations you can make in your home to welcome a baby. These things can give her hope that you and she are on the same page, but that you are taking your role as husband and father, and by extension, financial provider, very seriously.
I understand her heartache, but I also understand your reasons for delaying. Both are valid and should be addressed in your conversations. Neither of you should feel like your fears or dreams are being dismissed. There is always a way to come to a satisfactory compromise in these situations. God bless you both.

ON the other hand, my protestant friend and her husband were on the five yr plan, assuming that God would open her womb and give them children when they met their five yr goals. Turns out they missed their time, and she never did ever get pregnant or have babies. We should never presume upon God.

 

[zz912]

Hi yladoob,

I can relate somewhat to your experience. I was Baptist when my wife and I married. She is a cafeteria Catholic who is only a lukewarm Catholic. I would probably say that we both were not fully aware of nor in agreement with the vows and promises we made during our marriage. But after the birth of our daughter, we both decided that she needed to go to our parish school b/c our public schools are so bad. Well as her father, I wanted to know everything that she would learn so that I could protect, guide, and educate her properly. While reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church, my eyes were opened by the Holy Spirit about the Church, and the fullness of truth in her. This past Easter I came into the Church fully.

Now my wife is still lukewarm, but I pray that I may play some part in waking her up and helping to light the fire in her. But as to your question about promises that we did know we were making, God has granted to me (and it seems to you and your husband) the awakening to begin to realize the fullness of those promises. But here is the great part, those promises are also tied into blessings that overflow and abound that are ready to be yours. My personal opinion, God awoke you to the fullness of those promises, and granted you a great grace, so that you COULD fulfill those promises.

Spend lots of time praying, ask lots of questions with your priest, work on a debt reduction plan so that you build financial strength in your household. I recommend (as others in this thread have) Financial Peace University by Dave Ramsey. I teach the courses at our parish. Even though he is Protestant, his message does not contravene or go against any Catholic teaching. And it WORKS! You will be on the same page financially, and you’ll begin to work as one toward being good stewards of God’s blessings. I can’t tell you how much wonderful blessings I have seen from couples and singles finally aligning themselves with God’s plan for money.