Can a 'traditional' Catholic prefer the OF?

[ProVobis]

So am I a traditional Catholic? Or does a traditional Catholic have to prefer the Latin Mass, chant, veiling, Communion on the tongue, etc. I’d have no problem going back to that if the church required it, but it’s not my preference.

I don’t think everyone who calls himself a traditionalist is one. We all have some attachment to something in the past, like living in the same city, going to the same church, taking the same route to work every day, saying the same prayers, etc. That’s just being true to our habits and comfort levels. People generally don’t like changes in any form, unless it’s an increase in their pay or their favorite teams suddenly winning games. The OF is two or three generations old so I would expect the younger crowd has all its roots in it. To them that’s their tradition. To them something of the order of venturing into something new (like the old Latin Mass) would put them in a different category than those who were born, let’s say in the 40’s and 50’s. My penny’s worth, for the hour.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Why do you call yourself a Byzantine Traditional Catholic, then?

And I’m only referring to the ‘Traditional’ part.

I am doing so (name removed by moderator)rotest/defience to those who claim the term “traditional” as meaning one who prefers the EF Mass.

 

[TrueLight]

I am doing so (name removed by moderator)rotest/defience to those who claim the term “traditional” as meaning on who prefers the EF Mass.

Oh I see.

 

[Cat]

I like that. I think it describes the situation better.

What interests me is why people don’t leave us with the term ‘traditional’ and insist on pretending that words don’t matter? Of course they matter. People will always have a way of defining themselves in some way. Ideally we would all be really, truly Catholic without ifs and buts, and there would be no need for labels. But the reality is different. The way we define ourselves is the sign of our times I guess. But this too shall pass one day

But…the Pope said it.

Do you not agree with Pope Benedict XVI that Catholics shouldn’t use extra labels to describe themselves?

Why can’t Catholics just say, “I’m a Catholic Christian who prefers assisting at the TLM,” or “I’m a Catholic Christian who prefers assisting at the OF of the Mass.”

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

But…the Pope said it.

Do you not agree with Pope Benedict XVI that Catholics shouldn’t use extra labels to describe themselves?

Why can’t Catholics just say, “I’m a Catholic Christian who prefers assisting at the TLM,” or “I’m a Catholic Christian who prefers assisting at the OF of the Mass.”

This is how I say it actually. But using the term traditional is like shorthand. People know what that means. Here at least.

OK, so the pope said it. But as long as we who prefer the EF are treated like an anomaly in the church and until the EF is normalised again people will use this term to describe their prefrence. That’s reality. How it should be is a different matter. What’s the fuss really about? I guess we should pretend that these differences don’t exist?

 

[TrueLight]

This is how I say it actually. But using the term traditional is like shorthand. People know what that means. Here at least.

OK, so the pope said it. But as long as we who prefer the EF are treated like an anomaly in the church and until the EF is normalised again people will use this term to describe their prefrence. That’s reality. How it should be is a different matter. What’s the fuss really about? I guess we should pretend that these differences don’t exist?

Exactly. I just don’t get it. When asked what religion one is, no one says, I’m a traditional Catholic. They say Catholic. Labels can be bad, but they can also be used just to be more specific or to show subsets of areas of interest. Traditional is a nice, one word way of describing things.

ByzCath, no need to post the Pope’s statement again. I agree with the Holy Father.

But is that an infallible statement? Am I supposed to just scrub any labels from my vocabulary now? Or should I try as much as possible not to use divisive labels?

 

[Cat]

This is how I say it actually. But using the term traditional is like shorthand. People know what that means. Here at least.

OK, so the pope said it. But as long as we who prefer the EF are treated like an anomaly in the church and until the EF is normalised again people will use this term to describe their prefrence. That’s reality. How it should be is a different matter. What’s the fuss really about? I guess we should pretend that these differences don’t exist?

What do you mean when you say “normalizing the EF”?

Hasn’t the Pope’s Motu and his enthusiastic endorsement of the EF done that?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

What do you mean when you say “normalizing the EF”?

Hasn’t the Pope’s Motu and his enthusiastic endorsement of the EF done that?

I mean that it actually becomes a normal thing to have the EF in every parish and that people don’t make a fuss and consider it some kind of a political issue. Because that is how it is despite the motu proprio and the pope’s enthusiasm.

I wonder what is going on here today. This is the ‘traditional catholicism’ forum, right?

 

[TrueLight]

enthusiasm.

I wonder what is going on here today. This is the ‘traditional catholicism’ forum, right?

The regular folks must be cleaning their houses and doing their normal Saturday things.

I’m being lazy this morning, but will get to work in the afternoon!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

The regular folks must be cleaning their houses and doing their normal Saturday things.

I’m being lazy this morning, but will get to work in the afternoon!

And I’m supposed to be working on my PhD. The final deadline is near. Maybe the weird discussion on the thread is a sign that I should log off and do some work for a change.

 

[TrueLight]

And I’m supposed to be working on my PhD. The final deadline is near. Maybe the weird discussion on the thread is a sign that I should log off and do some work for a change.

Ha ha yes. You’ve entered the Twilight Zone.

Congrats on your upcoming degree! What will it be in?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Ha ha yes. You’ve entered the Twilight Zone.

Congrats on your upcoming degree! What will it be in?

Thank you!
Politics. I know. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[Cider]

I mean that it actually becomes a normal thing to have the EF in every parish and that people don’t make a fuss and consider it some kind of a political issue. Because that is how it is despite the motu proprio and the pope’s enthusiasm.

I wonder what is going on here today. This is the ‘traditional catholicism’ forum, right?

I feel that way on a daily basis.

And yes the EF is hardly the norm, I moved from a city of 2 million that had no diocesan EF and now live in another smaller city where we have one diocesan EF a week. Hardly the norm. The EF will become normal when we have it at least in every parish on Sundays and on holy days of obligation.

 

[jwinch2]

All Faithful Catholics are Traditional, prefering one set of Church allowed options does not change that.

Bingo!

Traditional in my view has much more to do with whether or not you accept the teachings of the Church and hold to them as best you can. Your preference of Mass (both of which are approved by the Church) is irrelevant.

To the OP, I find myself feeling much the same as you and I think there are quite a few who view themselves the same way.

Peace,

 

[jwinch2]

I refer you to the pope’s quote.

Specifically;
“This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly; he cannot be saved” (Athanas. Creed). There is no need of adding any qualifying terms to the profession of Catholicism: it is quite enough for each one to proclaim “Christian is my name and Catholic my surname,” only let him endeavour to be in reality what he calls himself."

And yet you have the word “traditional” in your profile description of you religion.

Sorry, just giving you a bit of a hard time. I couldn’t resist…

EDIT, I saw your response to the same question earlier. It would probably help if I read the whole thread instead of just spouting off…

Cheers!

 

[TrueLight]

And yet you have the word “traditional” in your profile description of you religion.

Sorry, just giving you a bit of a hard time. I couldn’t resist…

He responded to that in post 41.

I am doing so (name removed by moderator)rotest/defience to those who claim the term “traditional” as meaning one who prefers the EF Mass.

 

[Cider]

At least I now understand why this forum has such a hard time staying on topic.

My guess is that many have not read

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=579186

from the forum moderator

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Bingo!

Traditional in my view has much more to do with whether or not you accept the teachings of the Church and hold to them as best you can. Your preference of Mass (both of which are approved by the Church) is irrelevant.

To the OP, I find myself feeling much the same as you and I think there are quite a few who view themselves the same way.

Peace,

Yes, this is my idea of traditional. But I see that some others’ definition of the term is strongly tied to a love for the EF Mass and a wish to see it in every parish. I suppose there’s room for both ways of looking at it in this forum.

 

[TrueLight]

At least I now understand why this forum has such a hard time staying on topic.

I’ll take the blame for that. I thought it was important to first define what “traditional” means. I had no idea there would be so many protests to the label itself!

 

[jwinch2]

Yes, this is my idea of traditional. But I see that some others’ definition of the term is strongly tied to a love for the EF Mass and a wish to see it in every parish. I suppose there’s room for both ways of looking at it in this forum.

Probably so Claire. I think many people use the term “orthodox Catholic” to avoid such confusion.

My concern with defining one’s Catholicism based on the form of Mass is that there were Mass rites which existed before the EF. In essence making them more traditional than the EF. Why not go back to them if that is what being a traditional Catholic means? Even within the Tridentine Rite, there were modifications over the years. Why not go back to the beginning, rather than what the rite looked like immediately before VII?

Let me state for the record, that I have no problem at all, absolutely none, with seeing the EF being held in our parishes. I am quite glad that those who prefer it are able to attend one in their area. I see that as a very good thing. It isn’t my cup of tea, but if it works for them spiritually and helps them find God in the Mass, then that is wonderful.

I just don’t enjoy the idea of defining one’s faith by the form of Mass being attended as long as it is licit.