Can a 'traditional' Catholic prefer the OF?

[garyo49]

Oh, please. Who’s baiting whom? It doesn’t bother me when others rejoice in Catholic culture and are proud of it. I don’t wear a scapular and I don’t have a holy water stoup at home, but I, too, love to see others who do. I don’t find any of that arrogant at all, EITHER. It’s the “this is the way we’re SUPPOSED to hold our hands” and the “John Paul the great what” and “doesn’t rhyme with attican shoe” mentality that bugs me. Here’s a good example: I think it’s lovely that some women veil, out of a sense of reverence. I think it’s great and I’d never discourage a woman from doing that. I object strenously, however, to the attitude that they HAVE to veil, since the Holy See has said that it was a matter of discipline and that women don’t have to do it.

Motes and dust, my friend, you aren’t even reading closely enough to see what I’m saying. It’s not the culture, it’s the exclusivity and haughty attitude it seems to have brought out in some, SOME, mind you, not everyone.

It’s not arrogance or being “haughty”. What we’re talking about here is one’s prevailing attitude toward change. The Fathers, Doctors, and Popes did not see themselves primarily as innovators, but as conservators. They saw the Faith and those practices by which it was expressed, passed on, and guarded as an inheritance to be passed on to the next generation intact and, indeed, inviolate.

They were not anxious to update the Faith, or to change perennial and venerable practices. For the most part, they viewed change–whether doctrinal or practical–with grave suspicion. They knew both instinctively and often by hard experience that changes in religious matters–even if seemingly minor–frequently bring about considerable upheaval in the life of the Church as we do see in the post-conciliar Church.

We are what you once were.
We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshipped.
If you were right then, we are right now.
If we are wrong now, you were wrong then.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

The Fathers, Doctors, and Popes did not see themselves primarily as innovators, but as conservators. They saw the Faith and those practices by which it was expressed, passed on, and guarded as an inheritance to be passed on to the next generation intact and, indeed, inviolate.

We are what you once were.
We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshipped.
If you were right then, we are right now.
If we are wrong now, you were wrong then.

Gary,

this is a really good way of putting it. I’ll write it down
Today we are taught everywhere that tradition is almost negative and constrictive and that we should leave our own mark on things, make it more comprehensible to modern tastes. This is the attitude prevalent in the whole of western society, and the church fell for it. If it ain’t broken - go ahead and fix it. It is this mentality that we have to fight against and restore what has been lost. That is why I still claim that one cannot be a ‘traditional’ Catholic and prefer what is not traditional, ie. the NO.

 

[christosdavid]

my traditionality causes me to prefer the OF.

I am a traditional Catholic who believes in going to church in my local parish, which has the OF

 

[JKirkLVNV]

It’s not arrogance or being “haughty”. What we’re talking about here is one’s prevailing attitude toward change. The Fathers, Doctors, and Popes did not see themselves primarily as innovators, but as conservators. They saw the Faith and those practices by which it was expressed, passed on, and guarded as an inheritance to be passed on to the next generation intact and, indeed, inviolate.

They were not anxious to update the Faith, or to change perennial and venerable practices. For the most part, they viewed change–whether doctrinal or practical–with grave suspicion. They knew both instinctively and often by hard experience that changes in religious matters–even if seemingly minor–frequently bring about considerable upheaval in the life of the Church as we do see in the post-conciliar Church.

We are what you once were.
We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshipped.
If you were right then, we are right now.
If we are wrong now, you were wrong then.

Again, I was refering to a definition that was posted. I found that definition both haughty and arrogant. If you don’t, that’s your business. Further, re: the “We are what you once were:” “We” haven’t stopped believing anything that the Church has always taught regarding faith and morals. As for discipline, that has always been fluid, though certainly slow in moving, ie, organic development, but not unchanging. To suggest the above opposed and against the Church is to suggest that she’s wrong now. She is never wrong in matters of faith and morals and even her disciplines enjoy a negative infallibility, which means at the least, they cannot lead the faithful into impiety. That’s why I don’t like labels like “traditional.” WE are still the same, WE still believe the same thing, it is still the Holy Sacrifice that is confected (and to say otherwise is heresy). WE are still the WE that was right then, undivided from the WE that WE are now, if we are faithful to the Church. The SSPX (who are fond of using the same quote and I assume you got it from them) are CLEARLY wrong for their disobedience to the Church, as so many have been wrong and willfully seperated themselves in the past.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Again, I was refering to a definition that was posted. I found that definition both haughty and arrogant. If you don’t, that’s your business. Further, re: the “We are what you once were:” “We” haven’t stopped believing anything that the Church has always taught regarding faith and morals. As for discipline, that has always been fluid, though certainly slow in moving, ie, organic development, but not unchanging. To suggest the above opposed and against the Church is to suggest that she’s wrong now. She is never wrong in matters of faith and morals and even her disciplines enjoy a negative infallibility, which means at the least, they cannot lead the faithful into impiety. That’s why I don’t like labels like “traditional.” WE are still the same, WE still believe the same thing, it is still the Holy Sacrifice that is confected (and to say otherwise is heresy). WE are still the WE that was right then, undivided from the WE that WE are now, if we are faithful to the Church. The SSPX (who are fond of using the same quote and I assume you got it from them) are CLEARLY wrong for their disobedience to the Church, as so many have been wrong and willfully seperated themselves in the past.

I normally do not respond in this manner but…

:clapping:Well said!:clapping:

 

[zab]

I normally do not respond in this manner but…

:clapping:Well said!:clapping:

:clapping: I second that :clapping:

 

[jwinch2]

:clapping: I second that :clapping:

Motion passes…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Thank you all, you’re very kind.

 

[Cider]

We are what you once were.
We believe what you once believed.
We worship as you once worshipped.
If you were right then, we are right now.
If we are wrong now, you were wrong then.

I’ve always loved that saying, it’s so true

 

[TrueLight]

I’ve always loved that saying, it’s so true

It’s so poignant.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

This is from an article that I read recently. I think it explains very well how you can be a traditional Catholic and prefer the OF…you are taking the old and the new…like from the gospel this past Sunday.

"But there are also many things both old and new that are not incompatible with the kingdom at all and actually can be wonderful expressions of it in certain times and places: Gregorian chant, the Papal tiara, the Tridentine Latin Mass on the old side, exuberant LifeTeen Masses and charismatic prayer meetings on the new. But if devotion to these expressions, based on personal preference, causes strife and tension, there is something wrong. There is a difference between the Pearl of great price and its packaging. The Pearl always comes in a wrapper. But if we love a particular wrapper so much that in clutching it we let go of the pearl, it doesn’t matter if we are liberal or conservative–we’re being just plain foolish. Together with Solomon, let us pray for the wisdom needed in every situation to correctly identify the Kingdom of God and hold fast to it."​

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

This is why I dislike the labeling some seem to be into.

All Faithful Catholics are Traditional, prefering one set of Church allowed options does not change that.

I love that:thumbsup:. It’s so hard to know where you fit in…when you are a faithful Catholic but yet not what some people would consider a strict traditional Catholic. But yet I know I’m not a liberal Catholic or cafeteria Catholic either.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

This is from an article that I read recently. I think it explains very well how you can be a traditional Catholic and prefer the OF…you are taking the old and the new…like from the gospel this past Sunday.

"But there are also many things both old and new that are not incompatible with the kingdom at all and actually can be wonderful expressions of it in certain times and places: Gregorian chant, the Papal tiara, the Tridentine Latin Mass on the old side, exuberant LifeTeen Masses and charismatic prayer meetings on the new. But if devotion to these expressions, based on personal preference, causes strife and tension, there is something wrong. There is a difference between the Pearl of great price and its packaging. The Pearl always comes in a wrapper. But if we love a particular wrapper so much that in clutching it we let go of the pearl, it doesn’t matter if we are liberal or conservative–we’re being just plain foolish. Together with Solomon, let us pray for the wisdom needed in every situation to correctly identify the Kingdom of God and hold fast to it."​

I’d love to know the source of this quote…it’s fantastic.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I love that:thumbsup:. It’s so hard to know where you fit in…when you are a faithful Catholic but yet not what some people would consider a strict traditional Catholic. But yet I know I’m not a liberal Catholic or cafeteria Catholic either.

You are simply an orthodox Catholic. Words like “conservative,” “liberal,” or “traditional” don’t really cover it.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

JKirk & Annabelle Marie-

:clapping: :tiphat:

 

[Paxvobis]

I would say one can be a traditional Catholic, in that they are obedient to the magisterium and are otherwise ‘faithful Catholics’ and prefer the OF. There is nothing wrong with that.

But I would say that one cannot be a traditionalist Catholic without at least preferring the EF and the devotions that prevailed before the mid-1960s. The restoration of these, not necessarily at a universal level, seems to be the whole point of the traditionalist Catholic ‘movement.’ Traditionalist Catholicism also bespeaks a certain kind of spirituality which is absent among most Catholics these days. They go to the EF or would if they could, they have their own missals, the women wear head coverings, they don’t eat meat on Fridays, they may pray as a family or in some cases even home school.

 

[daCatholicGuard]

Greetings all,

I would break it down in this fashion:

Tridentine Catholic:
Observes only the EF Latin Mass; does not eat meat on Friday; women wear head coverings (and usually only dresses- no slacks/shorts); typically use only Pre-Vatican II hymnals. We ALWAYS receive Communion in the mouth while kneeling, (unless medical conditions restrict our ability to kneel). We approve of all current Church Doctrine concerning female priests, abortion, contraception, homosexuality, etc. We generally reject all the revisions of Vatican II that are not related to faith and morals issues. However, unlike the SSPX people; we still recognize the current pope and our local bishop. (BTW- this is my group).

Traditional Catholic:
Can observe either the EF or the OF Mass, (but does not care for guitar Masses or Charismatic services); prefers the older style hymns; do not like altar girls or inclusive language; usually will fast or abstain on Fridays- now and then. Will USUALLY only receive Communion in the mouth and sometimes kneeling. Also approves of Church doctrine concerning no women priests; as well as Her teachings regarding abortion, contraception, homosexuality, etc.

Modern or Liberal Catholic:
Only observes the OF; prefers guitar Masses, (or other “experimental” type Masses); approves of altar girls and Communion in the hand while standing. This group varies wildly on which doctrines they approve or reject; typically referred to as “cafeteria Catholics.”

Of course, these are only “textbook” definitions; there will always be fuzzy overlaps between each group that certain people will fall into.

Hope this helps rather than hinders.

Oremus pro invicem,

Sean C. :knight1:

---

**Please recite the Rosary daily. Each bead; devoutly said; is an eternal rose presented to Jesus and Our Blessed Mother.

Be sure to read The Secret of the Rosary by Saint Louis de Montfort. It will change your life.

Pray to St. Jude. **

 

[ProVobis]

Greetings all,

Tridentine Catholic:…

Traditional Catholic:…

Modern or Liberal Catholic:…

How about someone who has studied a lot, if not many, of the teachings of the Church, including all councils, major papal encyclicals, and its ancient languages? I don’t think I fall into any one of your categories.

 

[TrueLight]

How about someone who has studied a lot, if not many, of the teachings of the Church, including all councils, major papal encyclicals, and its languages? I don’t think I fall into any one of your categories.

Aren’t you a Trid-trad Catholic? A mix between Tridentine and Traditional, according to the definition above.

I don’t think you like guitar masses and you really like Latin.

 

[ProVobis]

Aren’t you a traditional Catholic?

Not according to some definitions presented here.