Can a woman propose marriage?

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manualman said:
Not a moral or religious issue at all.

But I DO think that today, more than ever, ladies should expect (perhaps demand) that the guy do the proposing. Men today are the wimpiest guys in perhaps a millenia and yet they often have the most monstrous of egos. If he simply isn’t willing to risk that ego and face the chance of rejection, he’s not going to be a good husband. IMO, the same goes for dating!

Make us man up, ladies! (Easy for me to say, I’m married. But I did it the hard/right way!) As for you men, don’t be such wusses. Ask her out. Poor baby, she might say no! To your surprise, you will survive.
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*Amen…totally agree. Men need to start acting like men again. Again – if a man is to be the leader of the home in many ways, he needs to step up and at least have the guts to ask the woman to marry him. I wouldn’t want to be married to a man, I needed to propose to.My son will do the asking, my daughter will be asked. *
 
sharmin said:
I find this statement very interesting. Can you explain what you mean? What type of protection do women need men for? I don’t intend to debate your viewpoint, I just find it curious in this day and age.
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By “protection” I don’t mean physical danger (for the most part, anyway.) I think it’s more a matter that the man makes sure the woman is free to concentrate on the the internal responsibilities of maintaining a home and family because the man assumes the external matters.

Since I’m an IT person I’ll put it this way. The woman needs to worry about the Local Area Network. She can do a much better job of that if the man takes responsibility for the Wide Area Network and/or the interface with the Internet so she doesn’t need to worry about computer viruses, spyware, hackers, equipment failures, and power supplies.

I also like to compare this to the way lions in a pride work together. The females take care of the cubs and do the majority of the hunting. (They are definitely working moms!) The males major job is to make sure that other lions and predators are kept out of the area so the females are free to do what they do best. And the role of the males is significant. There are plenty of animals out there who are eager to get ride of the baby lions and even a stray lioness.

Not all lions live in prides. And lions who don’t live in prides do breed. But the lions who successfully raise young to adulthood are almost exclusively those who live within a pride structure.
 
There’s a few different things being discussed here…

first of all, engagement should not be a surprise. A proposal can be, sure. But NOT an engagement. This is a life long commitment that involves vows to God and each other. Engagement should be discerned. If a girl wants to take part in giving her opinion about rings, sure, go ahead.

The proposal though, is symbolic. (Not in the canon law sense).

The man is the initiator…this is church teaching, and theology of the body. He is the giver of the gift, the woman is the receiver.

In my opinion, the proposal symbolizes this.
 
kage_ar said:
That is the Victorian Novel or Hollywood Movie “norm”. IRL, people discuss marriage and it is a process.
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This is often true. My now (longtime) husband and I simply talked about it, and then picked out a ring together just before senior year in college (my parents wouldn’t even discuss it with us until then.) There was never a “down on one knee” kind of thing, and I can’t really answer when I’m asked “how did he propose”, because he really didn’t!
 
agapewolf said:
The man is the initiator…this is church teaching, and theology of the body. He is the giver of the gift, the woman is the receiver.

.
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Agapewolf, I’m really not sure how this applies to women proposing marriage. I think a man should propose, but I think it would be kind of neat if the woman did it for a change.
 
Rascalking said:
Agapewolf, I’m really not sure how this applies to women proposing marriage. I think a man should propose, but I think it would be kind of neat if the woman did it for a change.
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for a change? in what context? people only get married once (or should)

neat? that doesn’t really give your opinion anything to stand on

It’s basic theology of the body. Earthly marriage is an icon of the Marriage of Christ to his church. He initiates an invitation to us. We don’t invite Christ, he invites us. God the Father is the initiator of the gift…the cause. We are the receivers, by giving our “yes”. The priest, as in the person of Christ, preaches a homily to “woo” his bride (the church)…an invitation the altar, which is the heavenly marriage bed. These are all proposals…

hence the symbolism of a man asking/inviting a woman to marry him.
 
agapewolf said:
for a change? in what context? people only get married once (or should)

neat? that doesn’t really give your opinion anything to stand on

It’s basic theology of the body. Earthly marriage is an icon of the Marriage of Christ to his church. He initiates an invitation to us. We don’t invite Christ, he invites us. God the Father is the initiator of the gift…the cause. We are the receivers, by giving our “yes”. The priest, as in the person of Christ, preaches a homily to “woo” his bride (the church)…an invitation the altar, which is the heavenly marriage bed. These are all proposals…

hence the symbolism of a man asking/inviting a woman to marry him.
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Ok. I wasn’t trying to debate anything.Just raise conversation. I think it is a neat thing to think of-a woman proposing to a man. I don’t see the propsoal in the same way you do.

All the best.
 
Rascalking said:
Ok. I wasn’t trying to debate anything.Just raise conversation. I think it is a neat thing to think of-a woman proposing to a man. I don’t see the propsoal in the same way you do.

All the best.
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Well, the proposal connection is just a logical conclusion from everything else I stated, which is church teaching. Because it has no “rite” or anything means it isn’t governed by the church (marraiges are come by arrangements as well)

However, I hardly think that it would be “neat” for the woman to give up being pursued (which is in her nature to desire that), or for the man to be emasculated from his natural God-given inclinations to pursue and initiate gift.
 
agapewolf said:
However, I hardly think that it would be “neat” for the woman to give up being pursued (which is in her nature to desire that), or for the man to be emasculated from his natural God-given inclinations to pursue and initiate gift.
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I don’t think it should be read into that way. If a girlfriend proposed to me I would very flattered. Not saying I’d say yes, given my major commitment issues! 😉
 
Rascalking said:
I don’t think it should be read into that way. If a girlfriend proposed to me I would very flattered. Not saying I’d say yes, given my major commitment issues! 😉
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I’m all for you having your opinion, but the best you’ve given to your reasons is “flattered” and “neat” and “for a change” which again, you haven’t answered to because that makes no sense whatsoever.

I, however, have given church teaching as a basis for mine. the symbolic nature of marriage as an icon, and that logically flowing into the proposal. The fact that men and women have inclinations with the masculinity and femininity, and that a woman would be giving that up.

You, however, are only mentioning how you’d “feel flattered”…and nothing of the woman who was driven by whatever circumstances in the relationship felt she had to deny her own desires and do the pursuing.
 
agapewolf said:
I’m all for you having your opinion, but the best you’ve given to your reasons is “flattered” and “neat” and “for a change” which again, you haven’t answered to because that makes no sense whatsoever.

I, however, have given church teaching as a basis for mine. the symbolic nature of marriage as an icon, and that logically flowing into the proposal. The fact that men and women have inclinations with the masculinity and femininity, and that a woman would be giving that up.

You, however, are only mentioning how you’d “feel flattered”…and nothing of the woman who was driven by whatever circumstances in the relationship felt she had to deny her own desires and do the pursuing.
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Have I wronged you in another life? If I offended you in any way, I apologize. I didn’t know this issue would make you bring out the dueling pistols.

The reason I’m not giving any back up to my "argument’ is because I don’t think the subject is worth dueling over. I’m not arguing anything, I don’t think either way is immoral, sinful, or damaging. It’s a marriage proposal-and that’s a beautiful thing-either way it starts.
 
I don’t think Church theology belongs in the proposal. It’s not a sacrament. That’s a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

I’m for the man proposing for a very practical reason that finds itself embedded in psychology.

Look back at this thread… how many women have their dream wedding planned, their dress and ring in mind already… from the time they are girls. Women are NOT reluctant to get married the way men are.

If a woman proposes, it puts the man in the position of ending a relationship before he’s ready to take it forward or accepting prematurely. Men are more the commitmentphobes. A woman who has to do the asking probably has a guy who is semi-reluctant. Marriage is too important for it not to be something both parties want completely.

Now, every man who proposes, if he has a brain, has a pretty good idea of whether she’ll say yes. And a woman eager to marry will drop lots of hints to a man to let him know it’s safe to pop the question.

If you haven’t been together long enough to be able to read between the lines, you probably don’t know each other enough to be asking anyway.

Same with a ring. If a man hasn’t been with a woman and observed enough of her sense of style (modern, traditional, baroque, stark, ultramodern) and whether she likes yellow gold over platinum or white gold, he doesn’t know her enough to pick out a ring OR propose. (Hint: Look at the rings she always wears. If all the stones are emerald cut, she likes that, etc.)

But only when a man is ready to surrender his silly sense of freedom and grow up and be a husband and make the move should it be made. A woman pushing out of HER eagerness may get someone who eventually feels trapped and angry and claims he didn’t want to marry after all. Yes, that happens with men who propose too, but why increase the chances.
 
*I can understand why men think the way you do Rascalking…it all seems so flattering. It has nothing to do with ego.:o Marriage is a very serious thing, a Sacrament… and while some couples make it work that start off this way, I have seen far more like I describe my friend above…where the woman almost flips positions with the man, and acts more like a husband. I’m a strong, independent woman…and I work outside the home…and I’m all for equality for women, when it comes to various things. But equal in dignity, not equal as in…we can flipflop roles. I don’t want to be a man. My husband is a very laid back guy, but he is a strong man who did the proposing. He was an initiator. I agree with agape in the sense that a couple should discuss getting married, getting engaged…but the proposal? The…will you marry me…should be done by the man.

The thing is, it really is like a rock thrown into a pond, and men who find this flattering…will not be so flattered when the woman takes over his role in the marriage, of the man. Being a strong independent woman doesn’t equal masculinity. From getting to know you through the posts here, you seem like a very kind, light hearted guy…but know, it’s not neat if a woman asks you to marry her. And I know (I hope) that the cracker jack box thing was a tongue in cheek reply…but, don’t ever test a woman’s love by giving her a gumball machine ring…to see what she’ll say. A person isn’t ready for marriage, if he/she feels the need to ‘‘test’’ each other. Just be cautious of that…but I think you were kidding. 😃

I hope. :ehh:

Agapewolf says it best. *
 
Whatevergirl-

The CrackerJack thing was deadly, deadly serious. That’s the true test of commitment and fidelity.

Of course it was a joke, silly!
 
I agree with your last paragraph, Liberano…very much! Women who tend to push the subject of marriage, usually have to…because the man isn’t moving fast enough. Now that could be true or it could be that the woman is in a hurry to get married, who knows. But, men should do the asking…no woman I have ever known, who’s husband proposed…says that she wishes she did. 😛
 
Ras if u don’t think it’s worth dueling over, then why do you keep responding?. I haven’t said anything to you excep given hard evidence for what I’m talking about. I was pointing out to u that u haven’t. This is not “harsh” nor is it dueling pistols

lib- the psychology of it is exactly a big part of what I’m talking about with tob.
 
agapewolf said:
Ras if u don’t think it’s worth dueling over, then why do you keep responding?. I haven’t said anything to you excep given hard evidence for what I’m talking about. I was pointing out to u that u haven’t. This is not “harsh” nor is it dueling pistols

lib- the psychology of it is exactly a big part of what I’m talking about with tob.
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Well, I apologize than. It sounded a bit harsh to me.

I didn’t really think I was dueling or anything. That’s sort of a Catch-22. If I don’t comment, you may think it’s rude or that I have nothing else to say, or take silence as consent. If I do respond, then I’m protracting the argument.
 
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