Can an Eastern Rite Patriarch, theoretically, ever become Pope?

[Vico]

120 Cardinal Electors of 208 living Cardinals as of 27 Jul 2012.
catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/scardc3.html

According to Anura Guruge: In 769 A.D. the Roman synod mandated that only cardinal priests and cardinal deacons of the Roman churches were eligible to be pope. Then in 1059 A.D. Pope Nicholas II decreed in bull Nomine Domini, that the Papal choice is to be from the Roman Church, unless no suitable candidates have been found.

papam.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/the-minimum-age-to-be-a-pope/

However, I note that at the time that Paul VI was elected there was and Armenian Catholic Cardinal Agagianian that was a candidate. (See papal conclave of 1958.)

 

[ConstantineTG]

Recent (last 2 or300 years) years only Cardinals have been elected. Only Cardinals can vote for Pope. :angel1::nun1::knight1:

That is true. But again, other Catholic males have not been excluded. It is highly unlikely, but not impossible.

 

[chevalier]

Re: Can an Eastern Rite Patriarch, theoretically, ever become Pope?

Worth noting, even the pope who crowned Charlemagne was Greek.

 

[Peter_J]

Present rules for the interregnum require the candidates be cardinals.

I’m surprised to hear that. Is that a recently-made rule? I recall learning in college (in the 90s) that it was very unusually, but not impossible, for a non-cardinal to be elected Pope.

 

[Peter_J]

Welcome to the CAF!

As Bishop of Rome, the Pope is indeed a Latin hierarch, and would typically celebrate the Mass.

I believe the Pope may celebrate the Liturgy of any rite in the Catholic Church.

Indeed. I remember a thread, not too long ago, about the Pope being “omni-ritual”.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Indeed. I remember a thread, not too long ago, about the Pope being “omni-ritual”.

Well, given he is the supreme authority in the Church, he can give himself the faculties should he ever require one.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I’m surprised to hear that. Is that a recently-made rule? I recall learning in college (in the 90s) that it was very unusually, but not impossible, for a non-cardinal to be elected Pope.

I believe these are the currently applicable procedures, enacted by Blessed Pope John Paul II: Universi Dominici Gregis. The eligibility requirements, however, remained unchanged. If not already a bishop, the candidate would have to be eligible for episcopal ordination under canon law.

 

[gus]

In the 50’s Cardinal Agsjanian head of the ArmenianCatholicChurch
Also a member of. Pious 12 curia
Was actually the favorite in the conclave that Elected John 23

 

[Aramis]

I believe these are the currently applicable procedures, enacted by Blessed Pope John Paul II: Universi Dominici Gregis. The eligibility requirements, however, remained unchanged. If not already a bishop, the candidate would have to be eligible for episcopal ordination under canon law.

Which rules out currently married men, men who have not been confirmed, and quite a few who have other impediments to ordination.

 

[Elizium23]

Which rules out currently married men, men who have not been confirmed, and quite a few who have other impediments to ordination.

I don’t see how lack of confirmation could be an impediment if a “quickie” ordination is expressly provided for; couldn’t they just confirm him beforehand? (And wouldn’t that be a whirlwind day?)

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Which rules out currently married men, men who have not been confirmed, and quite a few who have other impediments to ordination.

Well of course, and all of this is both theoretical and highly improbable.

 

[Vico]

I don’t see how lack of confirmation could be an impediment if a “quickie” ordination is expressly provided for; couldn’t they just confirm him beforehand? (And wouldn’t that be a whirlwind day?)

It happened with Photius who was tonsured on Dec 20, 858 A.D., ordained lector, sub-deacon, deacon, and priest, on the next four days and then consecrated as Patriarch of Constantinople on the next Dec 25. That is, layman to Patriarch in five days.

Yet in 863 A.D., at a Rome synod, Photius was deposed by the Pope. Photius then excommunicated the Pope.

Photius was again deposed but this time by Basil the Macedonian in 867 A.D. This was confirmed by ecumenical council in 869-870 A.D. (Confirmed by the Latin Church.)

Photius became Patriarch again in 877 A.D. This confirmed by ecumenical council in 879-880 A.D. (Repudiated by the Latin Church.)

Photius left office in 886 A.D.

So Photius was Partriarch from 858-863 A.D. and 877-886 A.D.

 

[TheDoctor]

Which rules out currently married men, men who have not been confirmed, and quite a few who have other impediments to ordination.

I was reading Universi Dominici Gregis and thinking about this and I wonder: Not necessarily - hear me out.

The impediments to ordination or episcopal consecration are disciplines, not dogmas, and therefore can be changed by the Pope can they not (i.e. although it is a tradition that bishops are not married it is something the Pope could allow)?

Once the Cardinals have voted, the Cardinal Dean asks "Do you except your canonical election as supreme pontiff? As soon as the candidate says “yes”, he is Pope. He does not have to wait to be ordained Bishop or for any ceremony, that comes later. At that time though, he can, as Pope, dispense of any disciplinary impediments that would prevent him from being ordained or made a bishop.

 

[chevalier]

I was reading Universi Dominici Gregis and thinking about this and I wonder: Not necessarily - hear me out.

The impediments to ordination or episcopal consecration are disciplines, not dogmas, and therefore can be changed by the Pope can they not (i.e. although it is a tradition that bishops are not married it is something the Pope could allow)?

Once the Cardinals have voted, the Cardinal Dean asks "Do you except your canonical election as supreme pontiff? As soon as the candidate says “yes”, he is Pope. He does not have to wait to be ordained Bishop or for any ceremony, that comes later. At that time though, he can, as Pope, dispense of any disciplinary impediments that would prevent him from being ordained or made a bishop.

In theory, yes. Although there’d be many things he couldn’t do when not a bishop yet.

And I believe the authority of governance by a non-bishop pope would be a rather problematic issue.

I suppose the election would end up invalidated if the chosen candidated stalled and refused to accept holy orders.

But in theory a layman could say “yes” and after that dispense with every non-dogmatic requirement there is.

 

[Peter_J]

As soon as the candidate says “yes”, he is Pope. He does not have to wait to be ordained Bishop or for any ceremony, that comes later.

Even if the Cardinals did elect someone who wasn’t already a bishop, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t actually be Pope until ordination to the episcopacy.

 

[malphono]

Even if the Cardinals did elect someone who wasn’t already a bishop, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t actually be Pope until ordination to the episcopacy.

Right. He could not be. The one thing that some folks seem to have forgotten is that his primary title is BISHOP of Rome. Any and all other titles (including “Pope”) are secondary to that one.

It is theoretically possible for a layman to be elected “Pope” in Conclave, but in order to serve he must be ordained bishop. A layman cannot be bishop of any See, and that’s is not a matter merely of discipline, so it could not be “dispensed” by anyone. Not even if a non-bishop were to be elected and formally accept his election.

OK … so much for my current unsolicited :twocents: worth for this thread.

 

[TheDoctor]

Even if the Cardinals did elect someone who wasn’t already a bishop, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t actually be Pope until ordination to the episcopacy.

As I understand it, as soon as he says “yes”, he is Pope. He must then be ordained a Bishop however at the point after he says “yes” but before he is ordained he is the pope. Now, I agree he must be ordained a Bishop as the big “T” tradition is the Pope is Bishop of Rome, but I am not sure the second must happen before the first.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

As I understand it, as soon as he says “yes”, he is Pope. He must then be ordained a Bishop however at the point after he says “yes” but before he is ordained he is the pope. Now, I agree he must be ordained a Bishop as the big “T” tradition is the Pope is Bishop of Rome, but I am not sure the second must happen before the first.

I think what everyone else is saying here is that the Bishop of Rome is also Pope - that’s the capital “T” Tradition.

Truth is, as fun as this is to speculate, we really don’t know and likely never will.

It’s perhaps more miraculous that we have had two non-Italians in a row …

 

[griego_catolico]

So, If an eastern catholic became Pope, would he be required to say the Latin-Rite Mass in public, the Divine Liturgy, or both?

Since the Pope is also bishop of Rome, I would say it is a given that he would have to know and celebrate the Roman liturgy. There is nothing that would prevent him from celebrating the Divine Liturgy though.

Would he vest in an eastern fashion?

That’s a good question and we probably won’t know the answer until an Eastern Catholic is actually elected Pope. We have seen in recent years that some Eastern Catholic patriarchs who were named cardinals have kept their own form of liturgical attire.

It would be interesting what His Beatitude Sviatoslav of the UGCC would wear if he is elected Pope.

Would he wear the while Dominican-inspired papal habit and add the panagia or two panagias with a pectoral cross as worn by the fictional Pope Kyrill in the film, Shoes of the Fisherman ?

His Beatitude Sviatoslav often wears a white klobuk, so if he were elected Pope he could simply change the color of his riassa from black to white and look similar to a Romanian Orthodox patriarch. Just an idea.

I know there is no way the Bishop of Rome would ever slide without saying Latin-Rite Mass, but would he have to back away from the DL?

I hope not. I don’t believe any future Eastern Catholic Pope would want to celebrate only the Roman liturgy.
There would definitely need to be changes to the Office for the Liturgical Celebrations of the Supreme Pontiff, with more Eastern Catholics added to the personnel .

 

[Peter_J]

Another interesting question might be, Which will happen first: an Eastern Catholic pope or a pope from the USA?

The latter possibility has numbers on its side (if that even means anything), since there are about 17 million Eastern Catholics and about 62 million Catholics in the US.