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FaithBuild18
Guest
Kind of reminds me of a suicide bomber. Yuck. That is wicked indeed. Wicked indeed.
- Status
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FaithBuild18
Guest
Alright, I think I found my new motive in my fight against evil: to simply minimize the damage evil causes.
Thanks everyone for the help, my mind is more clear now.
Thanks everyone for the help, my mind is more clear now.
po18guy
Well-known member
Demons are crude but effective. Think of them that way. They convinced seven US Supreme Court justices to see the right to kill the unborn in a “penumbra of an emanation” in the constitution. Does “The devil is in the details” ring true here?
They want souls. They do not care how they get them. They are not starving.
po18guy
Well-known member
Remember the carefully crafted negotiation with the being in Alien? It’s response was simply, “Die!”
Couple of links, if you would like to read a bit into their nature:
regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=14318&se=364&ca=118&te=782
holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/guests/tomhoopes/darkbackward.asp
Couple of links, if you would like to read a bit into their nature:
regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=14318&se=364&ca=118&te=782
holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/guests/tomhoopes/darkbackward.asp
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McCall1981
Guest
I think it’s worth noting here that Angels and Demons were created by God “before” time (a logical contrardiction, but you know what I mean), so by definition they are functioning on a different level than us, where time, cause and effect, etc don’t apply like they do to us.
For this reason, I think we literally cannot understand things like Angelic battles and such, since they are literally beyong our ability to comprehend. Even scripture, since it has to use concepts we can understand has to kind of “dumb things down” for us in the sense of using finite words and concepts, to describe the infinite.
The questions of “why does evil fight when it knows it will lose?”, or “why bother working if we know good will win?” are based on how we limited human beings understand motivations, time, the cause leading to the effect, etc. The descriptions we have of Angelic battles are the best way of expressing something that we can’t really grasp anyway, so I think we have to be aware of the fact that concepts like these will never fit neatly into our brains.
For this reason, I think we literally cannot understand things like Angelic battles and such, since they are literally beyong our ability to comprehend. Even scripture, since it has to use concepts we can understand has to kind of “dumb things down” for us in the sense of using finite words and concepts, to describe the infinite.
The questions of “why does evil fight when it knows it will lose?”, or “why bother working if we know good will win?” are based on how we limited human beings understand motivations, time, the cause leading to the effect, etc. The descriptions we have of Angelic battles are the best way of expressing something that we can’t really grasp anyway, so I think we have to be aware of the fact that concepts like these will never fit neatly into our brains.
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colmywaykurtz
Guest
Because each soul they lure to its destruction is a blow to the supreme loving heart of God. Not that it will stop Him, or defeat Him. But it hurts Him all the same. They do it for revenge against the One they hate most of all.
It’s a sad thing that they will lure some to destruction. But it won’t change the ultimate outcome in the end. Nor will it diminish the beauty of Heaven or the supremacy of God’s love.
J
JDaniel
Guest
FB:
The “destruction” of an angel or demon is called, “annihilation.” It’s my understanding that God could annihilate, but won’t. Anticipatory to the choices they made, they knew what the result could be, yet they made their choices anyway. Remember, angels (and I presume, ‘demons’) are infused with considerably more intelligence than any human, so it’s not as though they didn’t understand. They fully understood.
Once God creates a thing, he does not annihilate it. That’s what the Church teaches.
God bless,
jd
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Iron_Donkey
Guest
Angels can be destroyed by God, but they won’t be. Demons fight God because they have rejected Him and oppose what He stands for. The fact that they won’t win doesn’t enter into it - there are only two options: for God or against Him. If you choose against, you’re fighting Him.
Winning for us is not a matter of destroying demons. Our goal is to get us and as many others as we can to join up with God in heaven. If we have to fight demons on the way, so be it, but doing so is never its own motivation.
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edward_george
Guest
In response to those who say that God could destroy but doesn’t, destroying that which he willed from all eternity be created would not befit his nature, thus producing a contradiction. God’s will is immutable; if he willed to create something it would contradict his will to then destroy it. To say that “God could not destroy,” which seems to be what people are avoiding, is not to place a limitation on God, but rather to affirm the eternity and immutability of his will.
-ACEGC
-ACEGC
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Iron_Donkey
Guest
I suppose I really should take more care, but occasionally I don’t to save on space and explanation. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that there is nothing extrinsic to God (that is, nothing besides His own nature/will/etc.) that prevents Him from destroying angles, but He will not (and for God, there really isn’t much difference between will not and can not).
The point I was trying to make was only that it’s not an issue of angles being some indestructible thing that even God does not have enough power to destroy, but of God being such that He will not destroy them.
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Pat_Albertson
Guest
I agree that we must always be aware of the inherent weakness in our words and concepts, and therefore I thank you for inserting this post into this thread.
J
joe370
Guest
We have already won the battle via the Cross; by picking up our crosses, daily and following Jesus through the rough terrain of non-stop temptations of the world, we will, one day be with God forever. As far as angels warring with demons, I don’t have the rule book on that one. lol…In the end, it won’t matter because the chaff and weeds will be forever separted and the warring will cease.
Becaue, as scripture reminds us, we must also play an active role in our own salvation by doing everything that Jesus commanded.
Not we, only God…
Thanks to Jesus, an assurred thing just as long as we continue to do His will on earth
Revelation 21 reminds us of our victory:
A New Heaven and a New Earth is already promised…
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”**
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb… I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
God cannot lose to any of His created beings.
**
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FaithBuild18
Guest
God has destroyed many things he has created. He has destroyed many cities, many men, women, and beasts throughout history, and once he destroyed roughly the entire planet except for Noah, his wife, his ark, and two of each animal.
He created man and spirit not to serve His will, but to have their own wills. Sin is not God’s will. God’s will was merely to give man and spirit their own will. If, after being free, beings used their wills sinfully, He is free to destroy that being without ever contradicting his original will. He never willed man to sin, nor did he will angels to rebel. He simply willed that they had the freedom to chose not to sin.
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FaithBuild18
Guest
We have already won the battle via the Cross; by picking up our crosses, daily and following Jesus through the rough terrain of non-stop temptations of the world, we will, one day be with God forever. As far as angels warring with demons, I don’t have the rule book on that one. lol…In the end, it won’t matter because the chaff and weeds will be forever separted and the warring will cease.
Becaue, as scripture reminds us, we must also play an active role in our own salvation by doing everything that Jesus commanded.
Not we, only God…
Thanks to Jesus, an assurred thing just as long as we continue to do His will on earth
Revelation 21 reminds us of our victory:
A New Heaven and a New Earth is already promised…
21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’** or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!" Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb… I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light**, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
God cannot lose to any of His created beings.
So, it is conditional then? If the argument contains an “as long as,” then it is not assured.
E
edward_george
Guest
First, God did not create the cities he destroyed, man did. And in those cases he was not totally annihilating part of his creation, he was not causing it to pass from existence. He would have, in those cases, been dismantling it more than anything.
Second, that’s not entirely correct. How is God “free to destroy that being without ever contradicting his original will,” if a being misused its will? Are you saying that if we sin, God could annihilate us, just because we sinned? That’s the complete opposite of what the whole of Christian teaching says–read St. Athanasius’ On the Incarnation of the Word of God. To destroy everything after sin entered the world was not befitting God’s nature as a loving creator. To destroy anything after sin entered the world is also not befitting. You just assert that he can destroy beings after they rebel without telling why. I am saying that it would produce a contradiction if he were to destroy anything which he created.
-ACEGC
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colmywaykurtz
Guest
Yes. That sounds more like something Islam would assert about God—that He would have no obligation to be morally consistent.
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Imcatholic7
Guest
Pride but also he wants to take as many souls with him (to hell) that he can.
S
someperson555
Guest
ofcourse angels can be destroyed. anything that was created can be destroyed. angels are alive just like humans and animals. therefore they too can lose that life. although keep in mind that angels are pure spirits so they cannot die by physical means.
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edward_george
Guest
Angels, being pure spirit, do not die by physical means, and even when we, being both body and spirit, die physically, our souls live on. Anything which God creates, he cannot destroy, for that would contradict his nature. Does anyone have any solid reasoning as to why things can be destroyed, apart from just simply asserting it?
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FaithBuild18
Guest
It is written:
As a matter of fact yes, God has destroyed PURELY because of sin.
Do not limit the Lord’s omnipotence. And please spare me the liberal distortion of love.
God contains no contradictions, only man.
- Status