Can anyone explain the logic behind the stance of SSPX?

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I don’t understand their stance anymore. It seems like they could just have the situation fixed and still maintain their doctrinal stance.

The FSSP, ICKSP, Institute of the Good Shepherd, St. John Mary Vianney, Canons Regular of the New Jerusalem, Transalpine Redemptorists, and all of the diocesan priests that say the traditional Mass, all to a certain extent have that perspective. They just don’t go around insulting the Pope and other Catholics. Not all the SSPX people do this, but they really need to get on board in this current era. With Summorum Pontificum, the “progressives” are on the run and the added boost of the SSPX could really dispel the notions of things like gay marriage, abrogating hell, etc,
 
Personally, I’m starting to think that Pope Benedict has wisely called their bluff. We shall see. 😉
 
ethelzguy said:
This is something that the vast majority of Catholics believe, except for a small percentage who feel they are in such a position to cast judgement on the Pope(s).

When they fail to recoginize their error, they are prey to irregular and schismatic groups and their teachings.
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Their cheerleaders are also bumping around in the dark. One (who is posting on this current thread) actually referred to the past months of contact between sspx and Rome as “the negotiations.” How off the wall to imagine that schismatics, who stand outside the Church, are creditted with a power to “negotiate” with the Holy Father.

Vanity of vanities and all is vanity.
 
catharina said:
Their cheerleaders are also bumping around in the dark. One (who is posting on this current thread) actually referred to the past months of contact between sspx and Rome as “the negotiations.” ** How off the wall to imagine that schismatics, who stand outside the Church, are creditted with a power to “negotiate” with the Holy Father.**

Vanity of vanities and all is vanity.
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More falsehoods here…is it your intent to continually and without pause spread lies and therefore try to damage the SSPX? What kind of character stoops to this kind of action?
 
piouswoman said:
More falsehoods here…is it your intent to continually and without pause spread lies and therefore try to damage the SSPX? What kind of character stoops to this kind of action?
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As I said, the poster who said “negotiations” is on this very thread.
He knows that he said it.

Now - are you following me, dear?
“What kind of character stoops to this kind of action?”
 
catharina said:
As I said, the poster who said “negotiations” is on this very thread.
He knows that he said it.

Now - are you following me, dear?
“What kind of character stoops to this kind of action?”
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By your very own words you are implying that Rome itself should **not **be engaging in something that it is actually “engaging” in…talks and negotiations with SSPX! My, how confused you are…and to think that you of all people, are condemning the very actions of Rome itself! I thought you never questioned Rome, never questioned the pope…
 
Caridinal Hoyos and Pope Benedict both believe that the SSPX are not in any formal schism.

Pope John Paul II is dead and so is the debacle of his pontificate.

It is up To Pope Benedict. He must lift the unjust ex-communications before negotiations for the regularization of the SSPX.
He must right a wrong in favor of the SSPX and their corageous defense of the Magisterium against the the modern Churchmen who will not follow the Magisterium of the Church.
 
catharina said:
Yep. That says it all.
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You have missed the response.
saint_rafael said:
Not really. From the CCC 2033 which you quoted the first part but not this:

“Thus from generation to generation, under the aegis and vigilance of the pastors, the “deposit” of Christian moral teaching has been handed on, a deposit composed of a characteristic body of rules, commandments, and virtues proceeding from faith in Christ and animated by charity.”

The “deposit” are the teachings held always and everywhere.
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To be part of the ordinary Magisterium of the Church a teaching must be held “always and everywhere” and be part of the “deposit” that CCC #2033 mentions.

Novelty and error are not part of the Magisterium.
 
piouswoman said:
By your very own words you are implying that Rome itself should **not **be engaging in something that it is actually “engaging” in…talks and negotiations with SSPX! My, how confused you are…and to think that you of all people, are condemning the very actions of Rome itself! I thought you never questioned Rome, never questioned the pope…
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There are no negotiations.

Negotiations imply that each party has “equal standing.”
In the matter of the Holy Father and sspx, nothing could be farther from the truth.

Read a book.
 
Catholics who are part of the Catholic Church have equal standing when it come to negotiations.

As Pope Benedict stated in his letter to the bishops, This is an in-Church dispute.
 
saint_rafael said:
You have missed the response.

To be part of the ordinary Magisterium of the Church a teaching must be held “always and everywhere” and be part of the “deposit” that CCC #2033 mentions.

Novelty and error are not part of the Magisterium.
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Wrong. I saw your response.
It’s totally inadequate.

A paraphrase is not a quote.
If a quote was used, show it - in context.
 
saint_rafael said:
Catholics who are part of the Catholic Church have equal standing when it come to negotiations.

As Pope Benedict stated in his letter to the bishops, This is an in-Church dispute.
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Catholics do not “negotiate” with Rome.

Someday your dream world will explode and you’ll find yourself living a nightmare.
 
Can anyone explain the logic behind the stance of SSPX?
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Getting back to the original post.

Yes. But you must know the Catholic faith as it was understood prior to the various interpretations of the Council got into catechesis.

Also, you must read the encyclicals against modernism (especially those of St. Pius X)

The enemies of the Church were and still are within the Church.

The warnings of the early 20th Century and 19th Century Popes were not heeded strongly enough and the things they warned about came about. Hence the crisis.
 
catharina said:
Catholics do not “negotiate” with Rome.

Someday yopu dream world will explode and you’ll find yourself living a nightmare.
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The SSPX are Catholics who are in an irregular situation. One has to negotiate with Rome to become canonically regularized. They also hold the traditional faith and are trying to get Rome to follow the Magisterium of the Church.

Pope Benedict is slowly moving to tradition.

The SSPX prayed 2 million Rosaries for the Holy Father and he came out with Summorum Pontificum. He needs more prayers.
 
catharina said:
Wrong. I saw your response.
It’s totally inadequate.

A paraphrase is not a quote.
If a quote was used, show it - in context.
Click to expand...
Here’s the whole thing:

Catechism of the Catholic Church
PART 3 SECTION 1 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 3
2033
“The Magisterium of the Pastors of the Church in moral matters is ordinarily exercised in catechesis and preaching, with the help of the works of theologians and spiritual authors. Thus from generation to generation, under the aegis and vigilance of the pastors, the “deposit” of Christian moral teaching has been handed on, a deposit composed of a characteristic body of rules, commandments, and virtues proceeding from faith in Christ and animated by charity. Alongside the Creed and the Our Father, the basis for this catechesis has traditionally been the Decalogue which sets out the principles of moral life valid for all men.”

A deposit of teaching handed down in the Church = Always and everywhere.

From the Baltimore Catechism:

LESSON TWELFTH. ON THE ATTRIBUTES AND MARKS OF THE CHURCH.
“Q. 530. {125} When does the Church teach infallibly? A. The Church teaches infallibly when it speaks through the Pope and Bishops united in general council, or through the Pope alone when he proclaims to all the faithful a doctrine of faith or morals.”
 
For anyone that this might be new to:

From the First Vatican Council.
  1. For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by his revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by his assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or deposit of faith transmitted by the apostles. Vatican 1 Pastor Aeternus
  2. Hence, too, that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by Holy mother Church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding.–Vatican 1 Session 3 Chapter 4. On faith and reason
 
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