Can Catholic Schools Be Saved?

[Cygnus_X1]

Never mind; there’s already a thread here, where I reposted my article. Sorry about that.

 

[BAIRBRE]

Catholic Schools and our parishes are disappearing. What is sad that we arenot being told the truth about much…I thought lying is a sin?
We have a right to be conerned when churches and schools are being closed across the country while several dioceses are facing bankruptcy…yet our parish insists it is because of shortage of priests… However, we can get the international priests we need to help our parishes in this matter…these priests know poverty and are willing to take vow of poverty. they are just grateful to have food and roof over their head.

 

[OriginalJS]

Catholic schools are booming in the southwest suburbs of the Twin Cities.

 

[BAIRBRE]

Catholic schools are booming in the southwest suburbs of the Twin Cities.

That’s good…By the way…where are the twin cities…were from east coast…

 

[frommi]

Catholic Schools and our parishes are disappearing. What is sad that we arenot being told the truth about much…I thought lying is a sin?
We have a right to be conerned when churches and schools are being closed across the country while several dioceses are facing bankruptcy…yet our parish insists it is because of shortage of priests… However, we can get the international priests we need to help our parishes in this matter…these priests know poverty and are willing to take vow of poverty. they are just grateful to have food and roof over their head.

I have a problem with your logic here…

Yes, Catholic schools had a great run in the 50s/60s when they were staffed by nuns who worked for pennies on the dollar.

And yes, they provided a wonderful education for all of us.

But…the idea that we can only save our schools by finding people who basically want to work for free is troubling to me.

The reality is that Catholic Schools educate students in a way superior to the public schools (and I would make that statement without even folding the theological aspect of the education in). You meet anyone who went to a Catholic School and they know history, they know science, they know math…it’s the world’s first home of ‘no child left behind’.

We need to find ways to fund our Catholic Schools more efficiently.

I’d start by rebuilding the physical plant of many of these structures…they are horribly inefficient…3-4 floor barns that cost thousands to maintain and heat.

Then we address the salary disparity between our teachers and the public schools. Commit to paying our teachers no less than 2/3rds of what a comparable public school teacher would make. That seems just to me.

And we have to get more of our people to pony up the dough and send their kids to Catholic schools. Too many people say they ‘can’t afford’ tuition (which can be between $2500 and $10000 depending on the area)…then at the same time they go on 4 cruises a year and a trip to Europe.

Just my two cents…

 

[Tom317]

I have a problem with your logic here…

Yes, Catholic schools had a great run in the 50s/60s when they were staffed by nuns who worked for pennies on the dollar.

And yes, they provided a wonderful education for all of us.

But…the idea that we can only save our schools by finding people who basically want to work for free is troubling to me.

The reality is that Catholic Schools educate students in a way superior to the public schools (and I would make that statement without even folding the theological aspect of the education in). You meet anyone who went to a Catholic School and they know history, they know science, they know math…it’s the world’s first home of ‘no child left behind’.

We need to find ways to fund our Catholic Schools more efficiently.

I’d start by rebuilding the physical plant of many of these structures…they are horribly inefficient…3-4 floor barns that cost thousands to maintain and heat.

Then we address the salary disparity between our teachers and the public schools. Commit to paying our teachers no less than 2/3rds of what a comparable public school teacher would make. That seems just to me.

And we have to get more of our people to pony up the dough and send their kids to Catholic schools. Too many people say they ‘can’t afford’ tuition (which can be between $2500 and $10000 depending on the area)…then at the same time they go on 4 cruises a year and a trip to Europe.

Just my two cents…

Some people go on fancy rips like that, most Catholics truly cannot afford huge increases in tuition. Personally, I look at it a bit differently. I think the laity in the pews should be ponying up more money for the schools. As Catholics, each one of us has a responsibility to propogate the faith and that cannot happen unless kids are taught the faith in-depth, and that can’t happen in RE classes. I find it unjust for parents of Catholic school children to have to pay tuition, fund raising fees, misc school expenses and a large amount to the parish, while Catholics who do not have kids in the school only parish their weekly parish giving amount. While it is true that most parishes use general funds to help the schools, it is nowhere near enough and the parents of the kids are already being pouned on financially from every direction.

Further, let’s not minimize working on vocations, especially for nuns. Lay teacher salaries run-up the costs quite high and it would help enormously if we had even a few more nuns.

 

[frommi]

Some people go on fancy rips like that, most Catholics truly cannot afford huge increases in tuition. Personally, I look at it a bit differently. I think the laity in the pews should be ponying up more money for the schools. As Catholics, each one of us has a responsibility to propogate the faith and that cannot happen unless kids are taught the faith in-depth, and that can’t happen in RE classes. I find it unjust for parents of Catholic school children to have to pay tuition, fund raising fees, misc school expenses and a large amount to the parish, while Catholics who do not have kids in the school only parish their weekly parish giving amount. While it is true that most parishes use general funds to help the schools, it is nowhere near enough and the parents of the kids are already being pouned on financially from every direction.

Further, let’s not minimize working on vocations, especially for nuns. Lay teacher salaries run-up the costs quite high and it would help enormously if we had even a few more nuns.

I’m not trying to minimize vocations…but even if we had nuns, they should not be viewed as cheap labor…we did that once and now we have an enormous retirement/health care crisis for these women.

There is a difference between hoping for priests and nuns to teach in our schools from a perspective of role modeling, passing on the faith, etc…and hoping for them so we can minimize costs.

And, truthfully…this is also a matter of overall stewardship…if all members of a parish gave at the 5% tithe rate suggested…a lot of this conversation would be moot. But extraordinarily few do it.

My point is not that we should look for ways to drive up costs…but Catholic education does call for some sacrifice on the part of those who want to partake in the system.

 

[Tom317]

I’m not trying to minimize vocations…but even if we had nuns, they should not be viewed as cheap labor…we did that once and now we have an enormous retirement/health care crisis for these women.

There is a difference between hoping for priests and nuns to teach in our schools from a perspective of role modeling, passing on the faith, etc…and hoping for them so we can minimize costs.

And, truthfully…this is also a matter of overall stewardship…if all members of a parish gave at the 5% tithe rate suggested…a lot of this conversation would be moot. But extraordinarily few do it.

My point is not that we should look for ways to drive up costs…but Catholic education does call for some sacrifice on the part of those who want to partake in the system.

I agree, vocations should not be seen as a means to keep down costs, it is not about money.

However, I think you are ignoring the truth of the Catholic base. Parishes that have schools live and die on what the parents give and do, take away the parents and the schools and the parish would collapse. My point with this is to say that it is not fair for person “x” who does not have children, to only pay some small weekly amount in the Sunday basket. What I am saying is that parents of school kids are already tithing, while the “other” parishioners are not held to same financial contribution level and that is NOT fair.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’m not trying to minimize vocations…but even if we had nuns, they should not be viewed as cheap labor…we did that once and now we have an enormous retirement/health care crisis for these women.

There is a difference between hoping for priests and nuns to teach in our schools from a perspective of role modeling, passing on the faith, etc…and hoping for them so we can minimize costs.

And, truthfully…this is also a matter of overall stewardship…if all members of a parish gave at the 5% tithe rate suggested…a lot of this conversation would be moot. But extraordinarily few do it.

My point is not that we should look for ways to drive up costs…but Catholic education does call for some sacrifice on the part of those who want to partake in the system.

And we should all bear the sacrifice. In my tiny little parish, we don’t have enough children to justify a Catholic school. But that doesn’t mean we can’t contribute to Catholic schools elsewhere – if we were asked!

We are asked to contribute to all sorts of things – but not to Catholic schools.

 

[Tom317]

And we should all bear the sacrifice. In my tiny little parish, we don’t have enough children to justify a Catholic school. But that doesn’t mean we can’t contribute to Catholic schools elsewhere – if we were asked!

We are asked to contribute to all sorts of things – but not to Catholic schools.

Exactly! People need to be asked, and many of them would respond.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Exactly! People need to be asked, and many of them would respond.

I have heard people say, “No point in asking. They won’t respond.”

Which causes me to call upon Saints Fiacre and Nicolas for help. “How do you know they won’t respond? You haven’t asked them!”

Ask us! Ask us with passion! Lay out your vision for expanding our schools and explain to us why we must give. Show some leadership!

 

[frommi]

I agree, vocations should not be seen as a means to keep down costs, it is not about money.

However, I think you are ignoring the truth of the Catholic base. Parishes that have schools live and die on what the parents give and do, take away the parents and the schools and the parish would collapse. My point with this is to say that it is not fair for person “x” who does not have children, to only pay some small weekly amount in the Sunday basket. What I am saying is that parents of school kids are already tithing, while the “other” parishioners are not held to same financial contribution level and that is NOT fair.

Some would argue that the parent of the Catholic school child is getting more back from their tithe…some would say they should pay more because they are making the ‘choice’ to be in Catholic schools.

Truth be told, I worry sometimes that the schools have such a hard time remaining solvent that our pastors are less likely sometimes to encourage a Catholic school education because of the cost to the parish treasury.

I have only heard one, maybe two, pastors who have stood on the altar and said “If you want your child to go to our school, come talk to me before you say you can’t afford it”.

The other major problem, in my opinion, is that a lot of parishes got renovation happy and started insane capital campaigns for millions to restore worship spaces…and would never do the same thing for the schools.

 

[Tom317]

Some would argue that the parent of the Catholic school child is getting more back from their tithe…some would say they should pay more because they are making the ‘choice’ to be in Catholic schools.

Truth be told, I worry sometimes that the schools have such a hard time remaining solvent that our pastors are less likely sometimes to encourage a Catholic school education because of the cost to the parish treasury.

I have only heard one, maybe two, pastors who have stood on the altar and said “If you want your child to go to our school, come talk to me before you say you can’t afford it”.

The other major problem, in my opinion, is that a lot of parishes got renovation happy and started insane capital campaigns for millions to restore worship spaces…and would never do the same thing for the schools.

Yes, many people would say Catholic parents get more from it, yet that is the problem. So long as Catholics are so self-centered, this can not improve. We are supposed to be in the business of building the kingdom, which is what Catholics schools are called to do. Let’s face it, if we cease giving kids a solid formation (which Catholic schools help to do), then the Church is truly doomed. There are two huge priorities in the faith today, imo:

1. We need more vocations.
2. We need to form our kids in the strongest possible way.

If we do those two things, everything else will fall into place. If, however, we choose not to give our kids a sound education, then we will get what we deserve.

 

[Tom317]

I have heard people say, “No point in asking. They won’t respond.”

Which causes me to call upon Saints Fiacre and Nicolas for help. “How do you know they won’t respond? You haven’t asked them!”

Ask us! Ask us with passion! Lay out your vision for expanding our schools and explain to us why we must give. Show some leadership!

Well said, and I agree 100%. Now, we just need to get some Priests to say the same thing.

I truly believe many Catholics would respond if given reasons to help.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Some would argue that the parent of the Catholic school child is getting more back from their tithe…some would say they should pay more because they are making the ‘choice’ to be in Catholic schools.

I don’t understand this – I no longer have children of school age, but I pay school taxes. If I were to start accusing people with children of “getting back more from their taxes” half the people on these forums would jump down my throat.

How can they say that aboout parents who send their children to Catholic schools?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Well said, and I agree 100%. Now, we just need to get some Priests to say the same thing.

I truly believe many Catholics would respond if given reasons to help.

We need to get Bishops to say it – right across each diocese. Don’t leave each parish to struggle on it’s own – let’s all pitch in, even those parishes like mine that don’t have a school and are too small to justify one.

After all, I’ve paid school** taxes** – and haven’t had children of school age for almost two decades. Why would I object to putting a little extra in the collection plate each month for Catholic schools?

 

[Tom317]

We need to get Bishops to say it – right across each diocese. Don’t leave each parish to struggle on it’s own – let’s all pitch in, even those parishes like mine that don’t have a school and are too small to justify one.

After all, I’ve paid school** taxes** – and haven’t had children of school age for almost two decades. Why would I object to putting a little extra in the collection plate each month for Catholic schools?

Again, I agree 100%!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Again, I agree 100%!

But how do we get them to do it?

I hate to be hypercritical, but I keep thinking of a guy who said, “If leadership were shoes, the Catholic Bishops would be naked from the adam’s apple down.”

 

[Lovemyfaith]

I just can’t resist any thread on catholic schools, being the fan that I am of them.
Our parish funds about 1/3 of the cost of the catholic school education, the other 2/3 comes from tuition, which is about average in this area. We also do a lot of fund raising to keep tuition costs down, but fund raising is pretty standard at any school. By the way, we do have a pastor who has said repeatedly to let him know if you cannot afford the tuition but would like to send your children to the parish school. One of the many things that have impressed me about our school is how our pastor keeps it going on a much smaller budget than the local public schools. It seems to me there are some public school districts that continually throw more and more money into the school system and yet continue to see poor results on standardized tests and school attendance. Maybe politicians and school board members throughout this state might want to take a look at the formula for running catholic schools and incorporate some of those ideas into local public schools.
The catholic schools in this area are wonderful and I have no complaints, but I do worry about the fate of catholic schools in poorer areas, where neither collections nor families can support a parish school. I would love to see a whole diocesan dedication to supporting catholic schools.

 

[Ruthmary]

Here in Lincoln, schools are a priority, and each parish his its own grade school. The parishes all fund the high school. Tuition per pupil is only a few hundred a year. I can’t say how it’s done, but I do know there’s an envelope every month for education, there’s a foundation, and fund drives. It can be done–at least it’s being done here.