Can Catholics be Democrats?

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Hi Victorygirl,

Although I haven’t read every post here (wow there’s a lot!) the first thing that came to mind was our only Catholic president JFK was a democrat.

Welcome to the Church and best on your RCIA!

HA
 
(1) Well of course the Democratic stance was racist, both north and south in the 1860’s. You have already said both were immoral.

(2) and of course it was wrong to say such thinking was virtually the same as anyone else in the 2,500 year period before them. I already posted the Catholic Church’s stance a generation before the 1860’s and of course the Republican movement was a big chunk of the US population. There are so many other examples. For centuries slavery was unknown within most of Christendom before being revived again in the middle ages, mainly among nations having contact with Islam.

(3) and it is extremely ungenerous (and wrong) to view southern white people as unchanging racists over a span of 50 years. The demographic of southern whites switched parties continuously over a period of twenty years before settling down in the Republican party, the party historically against slavery and segregation. The Republicans are glad to have them and I am not going to assume they are more racist than anyone else.

No bee in the bonnet, just 3 facts where you are clearly wrong.
 
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upant:
why is saying a prayer before a government meeting wrong?

why is prayer at school wrong
Okay, which prayers are we going to use? I’m sure you will not have a problem with a Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist prayer, or Wicca or Pagan reflection. It’s a BIG spiritual world out there!
rotate em’
the government should not play favorites but it also should not remove religion from society.
Well, at least you have Judge Roy Moore on your side for that one!
probably not a good thing right now to be agreeing with roy.

i see nothing wrong with statutes on government property. open it to all even those we find appalling. that is what i believe the constitution allows.
 
I also see secular Godlessness as a religion. For me, not having prayer is an establishment of the religion of secular Godlessness leading to state dogma such as the political correct movement. At the moment we are taught to see such faith as not being a religion because there is no God. Over time, I think our view will shift and we will find the state is doing exactly what it set out not to do - establish a religion.
 
I believe in separation of church and state. I don’t think the state should mess with The Church and I don’t think The Church should mess around in politics. Catholics should be able to vote any way they want. It;s great to applaud when the church comes out and endorses a political position you like, but wait until they endorse one you don’t and see how you feel.

I feel the Church is getting into things that are not matters of faith and I think it is wrong and a mistake. You start playing that game and there is no end to it. They are driving otherwise faithful Catholics away. Look at all the countries in the world that are theocracies, like Iran. Do we really want to go there? The Church has been a de facto theocracy at times in history and the result was not much better.
 
Hi jfz178,

I am not sure that anyone is arguing for a theocracy (perhaps they are) and I am not sure what a Christian theocracy would look like. There has always been secular rulers and perhaps apart from the papal states (I guess) I think they have always been the ones in charge whether they be aristocracy, democratic government or political elites. You only have to look at the states participating in the Protestant rebellion to see where the powers really laid. As with the Spanish government’s bullying of the church to set up the Spanish Inquisition and it’s refusal to listen to the church’s criticism of its practices.

I would say separation of church and state probably means different things to different people, so perhaps that needs to be fleshed out a little more.

I think politics today divides along the lines of the amount of power and size that the state should have. The more power it has, the more fighting (and resisting) there is going to be which is causing dangerous and long lasting divisions.

I also criticise the church’s more recent foray into these politics. To be frank, I think it is a tremendous sign of weakness in the church that it is not strong enough as a moral and enlightened force to attract people in its own right, but seems reliant on a second class relationship to the state. A state which is increasingly losing respect people as Progressives use it to enforce their pc religion. (So what does that say about people’s thinking about the church?).

Just my thoughts, regards.
 
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Okay, which prayers are we going to use? I’m sure you will not have a problem with a Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist prayer, or Wicca or Pagan reflection. It’s a BIG spiritual world out there!
Let us not stop there with those, how about something from the “Satanic Verses”?
 
I wonder how much of a lukewarm tare Jesus would consider me to be if I voted for a pro-choice candidate? (Matthew 13; Revelation 3)
 
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Abcus: I take your points. My use of “theocracy” was misleading. What I was trying to drive home was my point that “You start playing that game and there is no end to it.” Theocracy is the direction churches are heading when they try to exert political influence, even if they don’t realize it and never succeed in fully getting there. Sure, when The Church says something we like, we get all warm and fuzzy about Church influence. But when goes the other way, it causes a lot of people to reexamine whether they are in the right faith, even though what The Church has said is outside the bounds of faith.

That’s why we have separation of church and state, because societies have recognized how powerful and damaging religious influence can be once it starts taking on issues outside of faith. And it is why most religions support it, because they’ve realized getting into secular issues takes them off the track they should be on. If we learned the lessons of history (which we don’t) we would decry even the slightest attempt at religions trying to have any influence on politics. A little bit of a bad thing is still a bad thing and it often leads to worse things. In the secular world, we will speak out about even a little bit of racism, or a little bit of sexism, etc. as we should, etc. but not about a little bit of creeping theocracy, even though it is just as bad. Creeping theocracy gave us the Crusades and the Inquisition, among other things.

Keep in mind The Church has never repudiated the part of Pius IX’s encyclical “Syllabus of Errors” (1863) where separation of church and state is denounced as heresy or the part about how it is a heresy to believe that Catholicism should not be the only recognized religion of the state. I think the Church should repudiate that document and start distancing itself from those concepts on the world stage. As it is, our roots are showing.
 
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The Crusades and the Inquisitions are certainly complex events. I will read the “Syllabus of Errors” document (thanks) and agree with you that the state should not be a vehicle for religion and that in a pluralist society there is a danger that a ‘state religion’ can lead to instability and injustice.

Regards.

P.S. Just reading a piece that seems to think that the prohibition against what you have said might be read as the concordat with Spain rather than states generally.

https://www.osv.com/osvnewsweekly/b...of-errors-still-relevant-150-years-later.aspx

http://www.newmanreader.org/works/anglicans/volume2/gladstone/

One view I guess. I’ll keep reading.
 
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Heck, most of the time I’ve heard prayer at a school or government meeting it is prayer in the protestant form.

Why no 10 Commandments monument? Again, they don’t use the correct version. It is a giant typo!
 
Ever wonder why God did not use his Omniscience to actually enumerate the Ten Commandments?
 
The only problem with that is that the Jews enumerate them the same way Protestants do.
But on the same breath, Jews have other issues. nonetheless, the Jews enumerated them first. but that is for another thread.
 
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How cheaply your vote was bought; with a dangling carrot you’ll never taste.
Oooo, edgy. 🤣
The majority of Americans are pro-choice and that majority is getting larger.
I fight for what’s right, not what’s easy. Everyone in the world could believe it’s ok and I’d still fight it until the day I died.
Vote long lines where your vote actually matters.
MAGA. I’d say my vote did alright. 😉
 
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