Can Catholics be Freemasons?

[KyivAndrew]

Howdy Kyiv!

Still looking forward to seeing your prereqs for a “scholar.”…
:

Well, you know after High School, like, some people decide to pursue studies at College or University. This is commonly called Post-Secondary Education. Here one can receive something called a B.A. or Bachelor of Arts (in Humanities, History, etc.) or a B.Sc. (in Science) or a B.Eng. (Engineering). The more prominent the University (Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge) the harder it is to succeed.

After this some really intelligent people go on to acquire something called a Master’s Degree.

If they are successful they may even go on to write a Doctoral Thesis and defend it and achieve a Doctoral Degree (Dr.). If they achieve tenure at a prominent University (i.e. as above Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford, Princeton, Yale, etc.) they may be well-respected in their fields.

So, on writings on the Templars one encounters world renowned scholars like:

Christopher Tyerman history.ox.ac.uk/staff/faculty/tyerman_cj.htm

Malcolm Barber en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Barber

Johnathan Riley-Smith crusades-encyclopedia.com/jonathanrileysmith.html

You see Houston, these people are specialists in this field and they are scholars AND not one of them buys into Masonic mumbo-jumbo about Templars being precursors to Freemasons. Not one! It is scholars like this that Read quotes from in the footnotes of his book, not Dan Brown or Michael Baigent, both of whom apparently were involved in a lawsuit over copyright of their Fantasy Work on Jesus.

By the way. The OP was about Catholics being Freemasons, which has already been answered in the Negative and has been established on this thread. You’re not Catholic so what dog do you have in this fight, other than to cast stones and fantasies at the Catholic Church? Never mind just Catholics, Protestant churches condemn Freemasonry too as I have linked to in this thread.

 

[KyivAndrew]

In the interest of honesty, it’s been on my signature the whole time…

So what. Your signature says Master Mason. I asked specifically if you have gone on to higher degrees as most Masons do if they are in the Brotherhood for sometime like one of my family members in Scottish Rite and others. So have you acheived 32nd degree in Scottish Rite? Have you higher degrees in York Rite?

Master Mason is pretty pedestrian to achieve after a couple of years. I say this knowing personally people who achieved the Master Mason degree.

So you have not risen beyond 3rd Degree in Blue Lodge I’m to take it? Why not answer honestly as you are the one casting aspersions against the Church on a Catholic Forum for that matter. Wow, pretty brazen, considering you post “Christian first” in your upper-right hand corner but have no problems demeaning the Catholic Church. Why not just put “Mason first”; at least we will know where you are coming from.

 

[ralphinal]

Woa! < 2 minutes later… >

Glad you mentioned this. Our lodge secretary was just about to put a stamp on the application we were mailing to you… that would have been 40-something cents we’d of never seen again…

Anti-mason venom…

Masonry does have an open door policy.
“2 B 1 ask 1”

No. This is honesty. Do some research into your fellow Masons in Alabama. George Wallace was a PROUD Mason. So was Bull Connor. Anti-Mason venom would be saying that Masons worship the devil or offer blood sacrifices. This is a statement of historical fact.

True or false: to become a Mason, the members of the Lodge in which you are going to join must approve your membership?

Second set of questions:
Do Masons take oaths over trivial matters?

Are Masons instructed to show partiality to fellow Masons?

Does Free MAsonry say that all religions are paths to the same truth?

 

[ralphinal]

Oh, and see if you can find out about how local radio personalities Russ and Dee Fine lost a T.V. show AND a radio show when they broke the story that the current governer of Alabama is a member of a lodge that will not accept black members

 

[gamewell45]

No. This is honesty. Do some research into your fellow Masons in Alabama. George Wallace was a PROUD Mason. So was Bull Connor. Anti-Mason venom would be saying that Masons worship the devil or offer blood sacrifices. This is a statement of historical fact.

George Washington (the father of our country) was a Freemason; so was Paul Revere, Benjamin Franklin, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford, John Wayne, Ernest Borgnine, Douglas MacArthur. If you’d like, i’ll supply you with a list of famous Freemasons.

 

[Irish_Polock]

George Washington (the father of our country) was a Freemason; so was Paul Revere, Benjamin Franklin, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford, John Wayne, Ernest Borgnine, Douglas MacArthur. If you’d like, i’ll supply you with a list of famous Freemasons.

Not one of them had the knowledge of the Truth of our Catholic faith. In fact, most of them were slave owners themselves. The fact these men were masons AND famous for whatever reason, says nothing about there character. Through-out time, it would be safe to say freemasonry has been notoriously anti-Catholic… the US founding fathers are definitely proof of this fact.

 

[gmcbroom]

So then if the ban has been lifted I can join a Freemasonry chapter? I like that. While its true that many people of ill intent join organizations ultimately, the only way to counter that is to have good people join and heal the damage done. If I avoided groups with bad people in it I’d have to avoid the church and thats one thing I’ll never do. I love my catholic church. I may deplore some of the actions a small percentage of people in the church have done but I won’t give up my faith in God for anyone.

 

[Irish_Polock]

So then if the ban has been lifted I can join a Freemasonry chapter? I like that. While its true that many people of ill intent join organizations ultimately, the only way to counter that is to have good people join and heal the damage done. If I avoided groups with bad people in it I’d have to avoid the church and thats one thing I’ll never do. I love my catholic church. I may deplore some of the actions a small percentage of people in the church have done but I won’t give up my faith in God for anyone.

As a freemason, you indeed could be a Catholic, although as a Catholic you can not be a freemason.

 

[gmcbroom]

Ahhh an interesting paradox. Like the married clergy deal. In some catholic suri iuris you can be married and then a priest, but in none can you be a priest and then get married. Means I’ll have to act fast. Thankyou.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Prayer given in the opening ceremonies 31st Degree of the Scottish Rite

Hear us with indulgence, O Infinite Deity… Help us to perform all our Masonic duties, to ourselves, to other men, and to Thee. Let the great flood of Masonic light flow in a perpetual current over the whole world and make MASONRY THE CREED OF ALL MANKIND.

source: J. Blanchard, Scottish Rite Masonry Illustrated (The Complete Ritual of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite). Chicago. 1979 Charles T. Powner, 2:320

Each U.S. State might also publish its own Masonic Monitor. For convenience sake, let’s look up the Texas Masonic Monitor because that is the state the poster HoustonsSon is from - Texas. So if we look at Monitor of the Lodge: Monitorial Instructions in the Three Degrees of Symbolic Masonry, (Grand Lodge of Texas, 1982), p.XIV, we find that "the most learned among Masonic scholars conclude that Masonry is of very ancient origin, and in some aspects, the modern successor of, and heir to…the Temples of India, Chaldea, Greece and Rome, as well as the basic doctrines of the Essenes, Gnostics and other mystic orders." Huh Say again.

The Essenes would have nothing to do with Indian religion or Greek gods, if anyone even understands elementary ancient history. But there you go, ladies and gentlemen, in black and white for any interested Mason in Texas to read in his Monitor, if he actually cares.

Thing is, your typical Texan (or any state) small-business man or shopkeeper would never even of heard of any of this before going on the square and leaving the profane (i.e. us). So what is a poor guy like perhaps, maybe HoustonsSon possibly to do. He gets “raised” in an emotional ritual in the 3rd Degree to Master Mason with his Brothers all around him, and he buys all this gobbledygook hook-line-and-sinker. Hence, the “fighting the windmills” routine of: Hey, you Catholics are against us because we draw our lineage from the Templars. A guy who goes into lodge with little knowledge of world history will eat all this junk up about Speculative Masonry going back to the Pyramid Builders and all types of nonsense. And on top of that they defend Masonry to the hilt as demonstrated here, even if it means throwing stones at the Church on a Catholic Forum.

The other thing to remember is that it was precisely in the 19th Century, after the American Revolution, when UGLE and Freemasonry in America ripped any mention of Jesus Christ in any Masonic prayers out. There was a deChristianization of Freemasonry in the rituals. Not that this matters. As Christians, we believe Jesus Christ is the Way to God, not pagan or ancient Egyptian temples.

 

[kimon]

Ahhh an interesting paradox. Like the married clergy deal. In some catholic suri iuris you can be married and then a priest, but in none can you be a priest and then get married. Means I’ll have to act fast. Thankyou.

Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but, doesn’t the ban on freemasonry apply to all under the Pope?

As such, wouldn’t you have to pick amongst the two?

(as a note, for what it’s worth, the Greek Orthodox Church also vehemently opposes freemasonry)

 

[gmcbroom]

You bring up a good point. Yet, the Catholic church lifted the ban on the Free Masons. So its alright to join.

 

[KyivAndrew]

You bring up a good point. Yet, the Catholic church lifted the ban on the Free Masons. So its alright to join.

That’s a LIE. Read here from the Vatican’s own website. It is still up and It is still in effect! Please read it so you can stop spreading falsehood. You’re a Catholic right? The first document is written by today’s Pope, as he then was Cardinal Ratzinger:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

Please note in the above document that Catholics who become Masons are in Grave Sin and may not receive Holy Communion. Or do you know more about this than our Pope?

Also see here.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html

They are the contemporary law on Masonry; hence why they are posted on the Vatican’s official site. Please stop peddling falsehood as a Catholic. Thank you.

 

[Irish_Polock]

You bring up a good point. Yet, the Catholic church lifted the ban on the Free Masons. So its alright to join.

I am not sure how you came to think in this way, or what gave you this impression but is has always been a grave matter to become a freemason within the Catholic Church, regardless of what the new canon does not state.

Ref. previous post.

 

[gamewell45]

Not one of them had the knowledge of the Truth of our Catholic faith. In fact, most of them were slave owners themselves. The fact these men were masons AND famous for whatever reason, says nothing about there character. Through-out time, it would be safe to say freemasonry has been notoriously anti-Catholic… the US founding fathers are definitely proof of this fact.

Irish,

You are so wrong; if Freemasons hated Catholics as you allude to, then why do they permit them to join their lodges? Why do they donate to Catholic Churches and charities? Whats your answer?

 

[Irish_Polock]

Irish,

You are so wrong; if Freemasons hated Catholics as you allude to, then why do they permit them to join their lodges? Why do they donate to Catholic Churches and charities? Whats your answer?

My answer:
Yes, freemasons would love to be a part of our Catholic faith, to destroy everything good about it. The freemasons, with their perversions and scandalous plots intend to undermine everything that Christ has established in our Holy Mother Church. The deceiver runs amok in the freemasons, tempting all whom sell their souls into it. They would love nothing more then to destroy the Catholic Church.

For example: The Vatican Bank scandal, Roberto Calvi was a known member of P2, a masonic order.

 

[gamewell45]

My answer:
Yes, freemasons would love to be a part of our Catholic faith, to destroy everything good about it. The freemasons, with their perversions and scandalous plots intend to undermine everything that Christ has established in our Holy Mother Church. The deceiver runs amok in the freemasons, tempting all whom sell their souls into it. They would love nothing more then to destroy the Catholic Church.

For example: The Vatican Bank scandal, Roberto Calvi was a known member of P2, a masonic order.

But yet they’ll gladly take monies from the Masons. Don’t you think thats sort of hypocritical of them?

BTW, P2 is not part of Blue Lodge.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Howdy KyivAndrew,

“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.”

• Benjamin Franklin, Freemason

“Speak ill of no man, but speak all the good you know of everybody.”

• Benjamin Franklin, Freemason

Oh my goodness, I failed to check to see if there scholar cards were valid or not… Please provide me with a thorough description/prerequisites of a “scholar,” and from this point forward, I will do my utmost to only cite “bona fide” scholars.

For clarification purposes to our viewing audience, Dan Brown’s novels are not cited in this article. Only his name is mentioned referring to a possible reason for a lot of the new interest in these subjects.

“A man wrapped up in himself makes a very small bundle.”

• Benjamin Franklin, Freemason

University experts will agree on Templar issues as soon as economists agree on fiscal policy.

Once again, Brown’s writings were not cited as a reference. Cute sarcasm though.

The question remains unanswered as to why the RCC so vehemently fights Freemasonry?

Freemasons know that the bogus reasons for this stance are easily debunked. The RCC has fought against Freemasonry for going on 300 years now. Why would the pope ask that the people pursue and punish masons?

No other group has received such an attack by the RCC.

I am not able to find any other support for the actions of the RCC except for the Freemasons being the successor of the Knights Templar.

Thank you.

One of the Churches main reason for it stance agianst the Mason is its belief of reletiveism of God and religion. That one Faith is as correct as the other. This flies in conflict with not only The Cathlolic Church but on an more fundemental Christian belief of God.

The next thing would be the secrecy and and oaths as that a memeber of the mason is required to kep and take.

Given just these 2 no more are needed.

 

[TEPO]

To better themselves as men

So freemasonry is about ones self? People join freemasonry to better themselves. I thought so… Sounds selfish to me.

raise monies for charities

Sounds harmless, but then -why would I need to join a fraternity to raise money for charities when the Catholic Church does a fine job at this? Makes little sense to me.

show tolerance others who think different then us

People join this “fraternity” to show tolerance? Why would this “fraternity” feel the need to persuade people by “showing tolerance”. Looks like a mask to me. What is hiding underneath is probably very ugly.

Furthermore the whole idea of “showing tolerance” is just another way of watering things down… It waters down the Truth of the bible by mixing it with all the other religions as if they are on some sort of equal playing field. Well they’re NOT!

When a “fraternity” makes an attempt to compromise the Truth of the bible by watering it down, then all Christians (Protestant and Catholic) especially Catholics should question these evil motives. Without the One True God in the center of your life and your country, you are doomed for failure.

 

[jeanannemarie]

In my opinion post #98 has the simplest and straight to the point answer. It appears you have to be Catholic to “get it” and not being Catholic is why you don’t “get it” and round and round we go. #98 post works for me.