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gamewell45
Guest
Correct me if i’m wrong, but don’t the Knights of Columbus have their members take an oath and are sworn to secrecy keep and take as well?
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TEPO
Guest
I agree… I particularly found continuity with point -1 from post #98
Thanks for pointing that out, I felt the same way.
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josie_L
Guest
Because as an enemy of the Catholic Church (they should be well aware of the Church’s stance regarding freemasonry) the best way to undermine it’s authority is to get as many Catholics to join it.
p.s. Do you have examples of Masonic lodges donating to Catholic churches?
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TEPO
Guest
If you’re planning on joining the masons, please reconsider… You wont get any further in life either spiritually or financially by joining.
You will however be in a constant state of sin! This should be a determining factor for you. Be it venial or mortal I am not sure, but none the less… God disapproves of it. Why else would the Popes have made this claim. Obviously God disapproves of Freemasonry. It is offensive to God.
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gamewell45
Guest
Contrary to what the naysayers in here say, you will not burn in hell, nor does God disaprove of anyone being a Mason because he know’s that its not a religion nor subsitute for religion.
If your joining freemasonry for finanical or spiritual reasons; don’t waste your time. You won’t find that here; If your interested for spiritual reasons, we suggest you attend your house of worship as you see fit.
If your joing freemasonry because you want to better yourself as a ;person; for Brotherhood, to help others in their time of need or help raise money for worthy charities that help society, then by all means inquire about becomming a Mason.
If you are Roman Catholic you need to consider the ramifications that your church will take against you if you join. If your concerned about that, then you should consult with church authorities prior to joining. If that is not a concern for you, the Masons will welcome you with open arms and you will truliy learn that the Masons are not a religion nor subsitute as others have learned.
If your joining freemasonry for finanical or spiritual reasons; don’t waste your time. You won’t find that here; If your interested for spiritual reasons, we suggest you attend your house of worship as you see fit.
If your joing freemasonry because you want to better yourself as a ;person; for Brotherhood, to help others in their time of need or help raise money for worthy charities that help society, then by all means inquire about becomming a Mason.
If you are Roman Catholic you need to consider the ramifications that your church will take against you if you join. If your concerned about that, then you should consult with church authorities prior to joining. If that is not a concern for you, the Masons will welcome you with open arms and you will truliy learn that the Masons are not a religion nor subsitute as others have learned.
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KyivAndrew
Guest
If you are a member of the Episcopal Church in the USA, you should consider what the world-wide head of the Anglican Communion and according to your confession, the 104th successor of St. Augustine, Rowan Williams stated several years ago:
The new head of the worldwide Anglican communion has warned that he will not appoint any Freemasons to senior positions in the Church of England.
Archbishop Rowan Williams said: “I have real misgivings about the compatibility of Masonry and Christian profession.”
He questioned whether it was appropriate for Christian ministers to belong to “secret organisations” and expressed concern about the “spiritual content of Masonry”.
The Archbishop’s press officer, Sion Brynach, told The Sunday Business Post: "The Archbishop expressed his personal views in a private letter and his position is that there are difficulties in reconciling some of the expressions of belief and practice of Freemasonry with those of Christianity.
I linked to this article earlier in the thread. Or, if you truly are an interested Episcopalian, read what the Standing Committee of the General Synod of the Church of England had to say in its Working Group after an exhaustive survey of Masonic Rituals in Freemasonry and Christianity:Are They Compatible? No matter how much one tries to fool oneself, they are not. You can buy a copy here amazon.co.uk/Freemasonry-Christianity-Are-They-Compatible/dp/0715137166
It might behoove you to read it before you advise Catholics on a Catholic Forum on what is Christian and what is not with respect to Freemasonry.
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KyivAndrew
Guest
Thanks for the link enfantdelune as I forgot about Duncan’s Masonic Ritual and Monitor which holds the Secret Name of the Masonic God which is forbidden to be revealed in the Lesser Degrees of Blue Lodge. From the Masonic Monitor on the Royal Arch:
High Priest (addressing the Chapter.)–Companions, you will assemble round the altar, for the purpose of assisting me in opening a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons.
All the members present (except the Grand Council) approach the altar, and, forming a circle, kneel, each upon his right knee. An opening in the circle is left for the High Priest, the King, and the Scribe.
…the High Priest, the King, and the Scribe approach the altar and take their places in the circle, kneeling with the rest, the King on the right, and the Scribe on the left of the High Priest. Each one now crosses his arms and gives his right hand to his left-hand companion, and his left hand to his right-hand companion. This constitutes the living arch under which the Grand Omnific Royal Arch Word must be given, but it must also be given by three times three, as hereafter explained.
The High Priest now whispers in the King’s ear the pass-word RABBONI.
The King whispers it to the companion on his right, and he to the next one, and so on until it comes round to the Scribe, who whispers it to the High Priest.
High Priest–The word is right.
The companions now all balance three times three with their arms; that is, they raise their arms and let them fall upon their knees three times in concert–after a short pause, three times more, and after another pause, three times more. They then rise and give all the signs, from the Entered Apprentice up to this Degree, after which they join in squads of three for giving the Grand Omnific Royal Arch Word, as follows:
Each one takes hold with his right hand of the right wrist of his companion on the left, and with his left hand takes hold of the left wrist of his companion on the right. Each one then places his right foot forward with the hollow in front, so that the toe touches the heel of his companion on the right. This is called “three times three;” that is, three right feet forming a triangle, three left hands forming a triangle, and three right hands forming a triangle. In this position each repeats the following:
As we three did agree,
In peace, love, and unity,
The Sacred Word to keep,
So we three do agree,
In peace, love, and unity,
The Sacred Word to search;
Until we three,
Or three such as we, shall agree
To close this Royal Arch.
They then balance three times three, bringing the right band with some violence down upon the left. The right hands are then raised above their heads, and the words, Jah-buh-lun, Jehovah, G-o-d, 1 are given at low breath, each companion pronouncing the syllables or letters alternately, as follows:
Here is the Mongrel Masonic Name for God consisting of Jah (Old Testament, Jahweh) Buh and Lun (Pagan Middle East deities) which the Anglican Church Working Group soundly condemned as blasphemy. I also had a further family member (Big Mason) who refused to repeat Jahbulun after me and froze, which is when I realized how important the ritual can be in Freemasonry.
The ritual continues with the initiate promising to:
I, _______, of my own free-will and accord, in presence of Almighty God, and this Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, erected to God, and dedicated to Zerubbabel, do hereby and hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, in addition to my former obligations, that I will not reveal the secrets of this Degree to any of an inferior Degree, nor to any being in the known world, except it be to a true and lawful Companion Royal Arch Mason, or within the body of a just and legally constituted Chapter of such and never unto him, or them, whom I shall hear so to be, but to him and them only whom I shall find so to be, after strict trial and due examination, or lawful information given.
I furthermore promise and swear, that I will not speak the Grand Omnific Royal Arch Word, which I shall hereafter receive, in any manner, except in that in which I shall receive it, which will be in the presence of three Companions Royal Arch Masons, myself making one of the number; and then by three times three, under a Living Arch, and at low breath.
I furthermore promise and swear, that I will employ a Companion Royal Arch Mason in preference to any other person of equal qualifications,
I furthermore promise and swear, that I will assist a Companion Royal Arch Mason when I see him engaged in any difficulty, and will espouse his cause so far as to extricate him from the same, whether he be right or wrong.
To all which I do most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steadfast resolution to keep and perform the same, without any equivocation, mental reservation, or self-evasion of mind in me whatever; binding myself under no less penalty, than to have my skull smote off, and my brains exposed to the scorching rays of the meridian sun, should I knowingly or wilfully violate or transgress any part of this my solemn oath or obligation of a Royal Arch Mason. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.
Please note the bolded obligation to help fellow Holy Royal Archers in preference over other people and to help one another whether right or wrong, so help me God, or Jahbulon.
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gamewell45
Guest
While Archbishop Rowan has stated his position on Freemasonry; he has not said nor has it been brought to my attention that anyone will be denied communion due to membership in the Masons.If you are a member of the Episcopal Church in the USA, you should consider what the world-wide head of the Anglican Communion and according to your confession, the 104th successor of St. Augustine, Rowan Williams stated several years ago:
The new head of the worldwide Anglican communion has warned that he will not appoint any Freemasons to senior positions in the Church of England.
Archbishop Rowan Williams said: “I have real misgivings about the compatibility of Masonry and Christian profession.”
He questioned whether it was appropriate for Christian ministers to belong to “secret organisations” and expressed concern about the “spiritual content of Masonry”.
The Archbishop’s press officer, Sion Brynach, told The Sunday Business Post: "The Archbishop expressed his personal views in a private letter and his position is that there are difficulties in reconciling some of the expressions of belief and practice of Freemasonry with those of Christianity.
I linked to this article earlier in the thread. Or, if you truly are an interested Episcopalian, read what the Standing Committee of the General Synod of the Church of England had to say in its Working Group after an exhaustive survey of Masonic Rituals in Freemasonry and Christianity:Are They Compatible? No matter how much one tries to fool oneself, they are not. You can buy a copy here amazon.co.uk/Freemasonry-Christianity-Are-They-Compatible/dp/0715137166
It might behoove you to read it before you advise Catholics on a Catholic Forum on what is Christian and what is not with respect to Freemasonry.
I just think you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this particular thread.
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KyivAndrew
Guest
Well, it was hard for Archbishop Rowan to bring attention to any consequences to Masons precisely because the Freemasons in the Church basically lectured the head of their own Church as to what is proper for Christianity according to Freemasonry and what is not. Imagine that, a group of members of a Secret Society able to walk up and tell the Head of their own Church to backtrack on His Christian position and declare the opposite. Amazing. Just shows the dangers if the Brotherhood is welcomed too much in any church. It becomes a question of whether the Head of the Church is really the Head. The Church is to serve Christ not the Brotherhood:
Archbishop of Canterbury Apologises to Christian Freemasons
The Daily Telegraph | 20 March AD 2004 | C. Hastings, E. Day
Posted on November-04-04 9:19:16 AM by Ryan Bailey
Rowan Williams apologises to Freemasons By Chris Hastings and Elizabeth Day (Filed: 20/04/2003)
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, has been forced to apologise to Britain’s 330,000 Freemasons after he said that their beliefs were incompatible with Christianity and that he had rejected them from senior posts in his diocese.
Dr Williams has written to Robert Morrow, the Grand Secretary of the United Grand Lodge of England, in an attempt to defuse the row prompted by comments he made last year. In his letter, the Archbishop apologises for the “distress” he caused and discloses that his own father was a member of the Craft.
Freemasons, many of whom are active members of the Church of England, reacted angrily to his disclosure that he “had real misgivings about the compatibility of Masonry and Christian profession” and by his admission that, as Bishop of Monmouth, he had blocked the appointment of Freemasons to senior appointments.
His comments about Freemasons were in a private letter leaked to the media shortly after Downing Street confirmed his appointment as head of the Church of England.
Subsequent attempts by his advisers to defuse the row only caused further offence. A spokesman said the Archbishop was worried about the ritual element of Freemasonry, which has been seen as “satanically inspired”.
In his letter of apology, Dr Williams tries to distance himself from his own reported comments. He claims that his views were never meant to be public and were distorted by the media.
He wrote: “I have been sorry to learn of the distress of a considerable number of Freemasons . . . In replying to private correspondence, I had no intention of starting a public debate nor of questioning the good faith and generosity of individual Freemasons and I regret the tone and content of the media coverage.”
He added: “The quoted statements about the ‘satanic’ character of the Masonic ceremonies and other matters did not come from me and do not represent my judgment. Since my late father was a member of the Craft for many years, I have had every opportunity of observing the probity of individual members.”
Dr Williams does not, in his letter, deny that he has misgivings about the role of Freemasons within the Church.
He wrote: “Where anxieties exist, however, they are in relation not to Freemasonry but to Christian ministers subscribing to what could be and often is understood [or misunderstood] as a private system of profession and initiation, involving the taking of oaths of loyalty.”
He ends his letter by stating that Freemasons’ commitment to charity and the community is beyond question.
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1270153/posts
Heck talk about the head of a Faith Community running into rebeliousness from a secret society and being forced to say something he clearly didn’t believe in originally. Again, Church vs. Brotherhood. This is a big problem for the Church in England.
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oneGODoneCHURCH
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no they are not swore to secrecy. they swear to uphold the church.
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
the automatic excummunication has been lifted,but you have placed yourself in a state of grave sin and untill you have removed yourself from that and made confession and contrion for it you should refrain from Holy Communion. the Priest if it is know to him should not allow you to partake untill it is corrected.
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TEPO
Guest
Who are you calling a naysayer here -me or the Pope?
And by what authority do you make such claims?
I think that your defense on this lies solely on the statement that " its not a religion nor substitute for religion"… But what you fail to understand is that -just because it is not a religion does not mean it is incapable of undermining the Word of God.
But I must add --those who willfully promote freemasonry (especially to Catholics), are in a severe state of sin!
How true.
Nobody needs masonry for this! Full participation in the Catholic Church is a much better and safer outlet to accomplish these types of goals. Especially when considering the Knights of Columbus.
Every Catholic should be concerned with this…
Because every Catholic should know that Masons dont merely need to be “a religion nor substitute” to be offensive to God… Just as the Popes have said.
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gamewell45
Guest
TEPO,Who are you calling a naysayer here -me or the Pope?
And by what authority do you make such claims?
I think that your defense on this lies solely on the statement that " its not a religion nor substitute for religion"… But what you fail to understand is that -just because it is not a religion does not mean it is incapable of undermining the Word of God.
But I must add --those who willfully promote freemasonry (especially to Catholics), are in a severe state of sin!
How true.
Nobody needs masonry for this! Full participation in the Catholic Church is a much better and safer outlet to accomplish these types of goals. Especially when considering the Knights of Columbus.
Every Catholic should be concerned with this…
Because every Catholic should know that Masons dont merely need to be “a religion nor substitute” to be offensive to God… Just as the Popes have said.
I have to disagree with you completely on most of your response. The nice part of living in the United States is that we, as citizens have the right of decision. Obviously, those of the Roman Catholic faith who agree with your opinion will not join the masons; those who differ will…and have. As I said in an earlier post, over 40% of my lodge is of the Roman Catholic faith. I’m confident that if any of them thought that Freemasonry was a religion or substitute they’d leave the Masons. But for some strange reason they find that we are not a religion which only reinforces my position. Keeping in mind that no one forces them to become Masons we open our doors to those who seek membership. So be it.
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gamewell45
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So they are taking an oath? And can you divulge the contents of that oath?
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josie_L
Guest
The thread is about “Can Catholics be Freemasons?” The answer is no they can’t. End of story.
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TheosisM
Guest
Exactly. Sure, there are Catholics that do become Freemasons anyway, just like there are Catholics that do a host of other things against the counsel of our Church authorities. Various Popes and other Catholic authorities have spoken repeatedly on this subject. And all these “benefits” from Freemasonry can be found right in the Catholic Church.
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gamewell45
Guest
The church says they can’t; the Masons say they can; It’s a decision that each individual person must make. No matter what you or I say in this forum, they will decide as their beliefs dictate.
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gamewell45
Guest
Or in a Masonic Lodge if they choose.. And all these “benefits” from Freemasonry can be found right in the Catholic Church.
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bookgirl32
Guest
The automatic excommunication has been lifted? What about Bruskewitz’s excommunications?
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