It is up to us to have a rightly formed conscience according to the teachings of the Catholic Church. If we don’t, then that is our fault and we have to answer to God for our faulty conscience especially if we are using it as an excuse to “do our own thing,” God Bless, Memaw
We all have the right to disagree with the Pope or a Bishop or priest unless that cleric is speaking of church dogma or in the case of the Pope, he declares whatever he is saying to be infallibly true. I agree with you however, that sometimes we let our pride get in the way of seeing the truth that the pope points out. Also, sometimes we forget to take into consideration that often what we hear the pope has said is in a secular news source and they have an agenda. One recent example that comes to my mind is when the newspapers all broke the news that the Pope was against capitalism and for socialism—which is not what he said at all! Conversely, if the Pope said it was Wednesday and we all look at our calenders and recognize that it’s really only Tuesday, we haven’t lost a day somewhere. The Pope is incorrect and off by 24 hours!
Long ago, the word freedom was distorted. The Pope would welcome any polite question regarding anything he said. Pope Francis, for example, is very much with the people. Too often, our perspective on the world is heavily influenced by a media that distorts what the Pope tells us, and we need to go to Catholic news sources to get the full story. As our shepherd on earth, he does what he should to guide the flock. Sometimes, what he says contradicts decades of bad behavior that we’ve experienced. For example, we are told what a family should be and how we should behave as Catholics, not just because he said so but because the accumulated wisdom held by the Church, based on Biblical truths, along with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, moves him to speak about the issues that we need to decide upon today.
Thats because theological ideas don’t really affect how we behave and live our lives.What continues to amaze me is that when it comes to following Church Dogma, the main focus of contention in areas of conscience are not religious, but social. We never see articles about the majority of Western Catholics disagreeing with Church teaching on the Assumption of Mary, etc, but we certainly see much disagreement and soul searching when it comes to ABC, gay issues and reproductive technology.
It would be interesting to see a book on some of the errors you’ve mentioned so that objective people, Catholic or not, could consider them in full. Encyclicals are generally quite long. It takes a willingness to take the time to read and digest their contents.
We should onsider how the Saints “operate” having spiritually matured past self-justifying lies often found in “following my conscience”. It’s quite easy to have the conceit to make oneself an exception to the rule of the obedience of faith based on one’s own opinion of oneself as having prayed, studied and thought rightly because of one’s sincerity. St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Jesus, to name only the most renowned, both explicitly said that if anything they taught contradicted their Holy Mother the Roman Catholic Church, one was to go with the Church and not with their teaching; the Gospel says that if one does not even listen to the Church, treat as a one as an unbeliever, and in his encyclical Veritatis Splendor John Paul II pointed out the error of making one’s conscience as the ultimate norm in matters of morality.Totally false re the so-called “claims” of *The Lancet *-- don’t rely on the media for anything Catholic.
Thanks for quoting those references. Essentially, the supremacy of conscience gives us the right to be wrong
ANd I think the second quote about conscience being informed speaks to what I was talking about in terms of doubt being an invitation to explore deeper. We can also pretend that we believe in the doctrine of the church and say so publically but who are we fooling… I would rather disagree with an understanding that I may be wrong and have an attitude of “what am I missing here” than pretend to believe what the dogma or the pope says in order to look the part of a good catholic… hope that makes sense tooOf course not. I am saying that God respects our free will and we can be wrong. We can take the position of being pro-choice but we must understand that this decision is inconsistent with the teachings of the church. I argue that disagreement with the pope or church is not necessarily bad if you are really open to digging deeper to understand the teaching of the church in this regard. God does not want robots, conversion is not about brainless obedience, I think the Lord appreciates those sheeps that stray into the margins and sometimes we all - in various ways in our Catholic life - stray into those margins which are both chaotic and creative…but you are right, the fact that my supremacy of concience allows me to disagree, that does not change the teaching of the church and therefore right and wrong. Hope that clarifies.So if my conscience tells me abortion is ok, then it supersedes church teaching?
Yeah, I am not sure if I said that freedom and supremacy of conscience “Trumps” the teaching of our church. I said that God respects my freedom of choice and my choice is often based on my understanding (or lack of understanding) on a certain teaching or what the pope says here or there. The two issues are not tied together.
Wrong. For a start your conscience should be formed in accordance with Church teachings.
Thistle, supremacy of conscience is covered in the catechism. Supremacy of conscience is a personal matter; it reflects how you are position in relation to a teaching of the church, it is not necessarily a rejection of church teaching but a non-understanding of church teaching which could lead to a disagreement based on the facts that one knows.
True.
, and the Explanatory Note by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith]
I was not referring to recent antisemitism. Let’s be clear. The Catholic Church may have invented antisemitism. Even if it didn’t, it was the primary driving force to persecute Jews in western society for nearly a millenium. The Catholic Church actively persuted Jews for more than seven centuries. It not only persecuted Jews, it actively encouraged heads of state to raise the level of persecution beyond what they might have otherwise. The actions of the church in thus respect for centuries was essentially and clearly of malevolent intent. Evil personified.
Totally false, the errors continue.