Can Catholics learn things from Protestants... things they need to learn?

[distracted]

I agree protestants do exhibit justifiable urgency when it come to being born-again.
On reading the literature on the live of St Patrick , it is said he took people to Purgatory so that they could do their cleansing whilst here on earth. i have come a long way before I reached this point in understanding this.
Based on experiences of people who were shown hell (source spirit lessons and yes I do hold these accounts against Bible and catholic tradition) it is said hell and purgatory and for that matter are accessed from certain points here on earth. remember the account of Jacob going up the ladder to heaven. Well its like that.
its also amazing when protestants have experiences and refer to pirgatory yet not know it. Eg. references to outer darkness in Rick joyner’s book “The Quest”

i don’t understand a lot of what you have written here…

St P took people to Purg???

the englarged part is totally confusing to me…

 

[distracted]

I would think you could learn that there is a great need to be more clear of your exact intent and holiness of your methods.

But then I would have thought the Jews would have learned to not even accidentally create Nazism too. But maybe it wasn’t an accident, but a strategic sacrifice.

I don’t see the Catholic making such sacrifices intentionally, but then I have to ask why they aren’t making their real intentions less questionable.

But regardless, the need to be more clear is something to learn from those who are in doubt.

how ironic that you speak of the need to be more clear. i did NOT understand this post… and i am sure others didn’t either…

 

[distracted]

Evangelical Protestants do put a lot of emphasis on being “born-again”. But the bible says that we need to be “born again” of water and spirit. Catholics get the “water and spirit” part of that from Baptism and we get what Protestants typically call the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” at our Confirmation. We receive the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, etc. See… (Catechism of the Catholic Church- CCC 1297-1305 at www.vatican.va)

Purgatory - (CCC 1030-1032)
CC

i have been through both…

and i believe t hat is what Purg is about: being led through the process of … going throiugh that radical change…

i believe that if you go through taht radical cahnge… being born again, you will spend less time in PURg… but it also depends, of course, on your avoidance of sin…

 

[2nd_Adam]

Catholic need to learn what was the central article which caused the Protestant Reformation. See the Pope’s work on justification by faith below. It is so important!

 

[4EverHis]

I think it depends on what you really mean by “things they need to learn.”

Regarding doctrine, absolutely not. Even your example of the Protestant emphasis on being “born again” is not something Catholics “need to learn” from Protestants because the Protestant understanding of how one is born again, what it means to be born again, and the effects of being born again are at odds with the Catholic teaching on the matter.

Are many of my Protestant friends very good examples of living a Christian life, of practicing the virtues, of witnessing for Christ? Yes. I love them, I admire them, and I am friends with them.

Is their doctrine and teaching sound? No. I don’t learn from them, I don’t do bible study with them, and I don’t emulate them in this regard.

Personally, I think Catholics should learn from the Catholic witness provided for us by the Saints.

The doctrine of justification according to Paul… which is framed by justification by faith alone. It seems the Pope learned from the Reformation too.

Pope Benedict does not believe in “faith alone” justification… you’re taking him out of context no Catholics have ever believed this, and no Christians have ever belived this till the Reformation… St Paul didn’t teach “Faith alone”, he taught that we’re saved by grace, which Catholics also believe. In James it says, we’re not justified by faith alone. Did Paul and James disagree with each other?

the Church teaches salvation through grace alone but not faith alone.

God bless

 

[sckcd]

Maybe we should not learn Protestant interpretation but we should learn Catholic interpretation. The Catholic Church has always neglected the teaching of the bible.

novaresearch.eu/index.php/news_events/3/4

“In the beginning was the Word – but the Italians don’t read it” said La Stampa as a response to a recent survey done by Eurisko for the Catholic Biblical Federation. The survey showed that only 14% of Italians questioned were able to answer questions about the Bible correctly. Only 27% had read a passage from the Bible in the past year (compared with 75% in the USA) and only a small minority knew whether or not the Gospels were part of the Bible. Even first class honours students of Philosophy confused Paul with Moses and thought that Jesus wrote Genesis. Yet 88% of Italians describe themselves as Roman Catholics, three quarters claimed they kept a Bible at home, 79% felt their lives were “protected by God” although only 32% described themselves as “regular churchgoers”, compared with 45% in the US and 55% in Poland. However, 6 out of 10 Italians thought the Bible should be taught at schools.

Monsignor Vincenzo Paglia, Bishop of Terni and head of the Catholic Biblical Federation in Italy, said the survey “offers a challenge to which we must respond”. Monsignor Gianfranco Ravasi, head of the pontifical Council for Culture would have liked to see the Vatican included in the survey where “it might well have produced some surprising results”.
The XII Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops, was held from 5th-26th October 2008 and, presided over by Pope Benedict XVI, took as its theme “The Word of God in the Life and Mission of the Church”. On the evening of Sunday the 6th October, Pope Benedict kicked off a Bible-reading marathon that lasted for seven days and needed 1,200 people to complete the task. Orthodox and Evangelical church leaders also participated in the reading that finished with the Book of Revelation a week later. The Pope may have read the first verses from Genesis, Andrea Bocelli may have sung excerpts, but it remains to be seen whether the Italian Roman Catholic public begin reading the Bible in more earnest.

According to the Venetian philosopher Massimo Cacciari, the Roman Catholic Church is to blame for this lack of biblical knowledge as it has kept a monopoly on the teaching of the Bible and imposes Episcopal authorisation upon those who teach religious education. So despite the fact that the 40 years following Vatican II have seen a steady increase in the number of homes possessing a Bible and the onset of the Internet age and multimedia communication, for many Italians the Bible remains a closed, mysterious book.

Source: La Stampa online, TimesOnline, ADNKronos international

Do you think it’s any different in Mexico, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Africa, Ecuador, France, Germany, Phillipines, Australia or Ireland?

My Catholic husband learned about the Bible in school, but from then on, not so much. In fact, I was shocked to learn years ago that he didn’t even own a Bible. I cannot imagine not having a Bible on hand to go to for reference and regular reading.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Maybe we should not learn Protestant interpretation but we should learn Catholic interpretation. The Catholic Church has always neglected the teaching of the bible.

novaresearch.eu/index.php/news_events/3/4

“In the beginning was the Word – but the Italians don’t read it” said La Stampa as a response to a recent survey done by Eurisko for the Catholic Biblical Federation. The survey showed that only 14% of Italians questioned were able to answer questions about the Bible correctly. Only 27% had read a passage from the Bible in the past year (compared with 75% in the USA) and only a small minority knew whether or not the Gospels were part of the Bible. Even first class honours students of Philosophy confused Paul with Moses and thought that Jesus wrote Genesis. Yet 88% of Italians describe themselves as Roman Catholics, three quarters claimed they kept a Bible at home, 79% felt their lives were “protected by God” although only 32% described themselves as “regular churchgoers”, compared with 45% in the US and 55% in Poland. However, 6 out of 10 Italians thought the Bible should be taught at schools.

Monsignor Vincenzo Paglia, Bishop of Terni and head of the Catholic Biblical Federation in Italy, said the survey “offers a challenge to which we must respond”. Monsignor Gianfranco Ravasi, head of the pontifical Council for Culture would have liked to see the Vatican included in the survey where “it might well have produced some surprising results”.
The XII Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops, was held from 5th-26th October 2008 and, presided over by Pope Benedict XVI, took as its theme “The Word of God in the Life and Mission of the Church”. On the evening of Sunday the 6th October, Pope Benedict kicked off a Bible-reading marathon that lasted for seven days and needed 1,200 people to complete the task. Orthodox and Evangelical church leaders also participated in the reading that finished with the Book of Revelation a week later. The Pope may have read the first verses from Genesis, Andrea Bocelli may have sung excerpts, but it remains to be seen whether the Italian Roman Catholic public begin reading the Bible in more earnest.

According to the Venetian philosopher Massimo Cacciari, the Roman Catholic Church is to blame for this lack of biblical knowledge as it has kept a monopoly on the teaching of the Bible and imposes Episcopal authorisation upon those who teach religious education. So despite the fact that the 40 years following Vatican II have seen a steady increase in the number of homes possessing a Bible and the onset of the Internet age and multimedia communication, for many Italians the Bible remains a closed, mysterious book.

Source: La Stampa online, TimesOnline, ADNKronos international

Do you think it’s any different in Mexico, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Africa, Ecuador, France, Germany, Phillipines, Australia or Ireland?

Why is this no different than the dark ages where Bibles were prohibited for the laity in the church? This is what Catholics can learn from Protestants, to search the Scriptures to see if what the Catholic Church teach is true. Has anything really changed from the Protestant Reformation 500 years ago?

 

[ron77nyc]

My Catholic husband learned about the Bible in school, but from then on, not so much. In fact, I was shocked to learn years ago that he didn’t even own a Bible. I cannot imagine not having a Bible on hand to go to for reference and regular reading.

Yes-------spiritual warfare---------something the Protestants taught me. The Word of God is part of the Armor of God. Don’t leave home without it.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms

Ephesians 6:17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

 

[sckcd]

Yes-------spiritual warfare---------something the Protestants taught me. The Word of God is part of the Armor of God. Don’t leave home without it.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms

Ephesians 6:17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

True that. And it’s important not neccessarily to check up on what the Church is teaching, but to “arm” yourself like the above verse says. We can all stand to brush up on the Bible, no matter how learned we are.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Yes-------spiritual warfare---------something the Protestants taught me. The Word of God is part of the Armor of God. Don’t leave home without it.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms

Ephesians 6:17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

LOL… it is the offensive weapon that we have from God. Now Catholics should strive to correctly handle their sword. Maybe Protestants can teach you how to use it properly?

A Worker Approved by God

Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. - Paul

 

[ron77nyc]

so what can we learn from Protestants?

Jeremiah 23:29 “Is not My word like fire?” declares the LORD, "and like a hammer which shatters a rock?

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

1 Peter 1:23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

Isaiah 5:13 Therefore My people go into exile for their lack of knowledge; And their honorable men are famished, And their multitude is parched with thirst.

Hosea 4:6 my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.

 

[CWBetts]

LOL… it is the offensive weapon that we have from God. Now Catholics should strive to correctly handle their sword. Maybe Protestants can teach you how to use it properly?

A Worker Approved by God

Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. - Paul

Your arrogance is insulting to Protestants everywhere. To continue with the Analogy, you are like Antonio Banderas at the beginning of Zorro. Lots of passion, but very little real knowledge. You know enough to “stick the pointy end in the other man” but it takes the tutelage of a master (that would be the Church) to get you to the point of being truly skilled.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Your arrogance is insulting to Protestants everywhere. To continue with the Analogy, you are like Antonio Banderas at the beginning of Zorro. Lots of passion, but very little real knowledge. You know enough to “stick the pointy end in the other man” but it takes the tutelage of a master (that would be the Church) to get you to the point of being truly skilled.

I’m sorry you feel that way. However, the principle of sola scriptura to define the biblical gospel of grace through faith alone is the cause of the Protestant Reformation and our continued division. These are historical divisions that have not be resolved in 500 years.

 

[distracted]

I would start with the book of Romans, then go to the book of Galatians. Thereafter, go to the other 11 Epistles of Paul, the four gospel accounts, and the rest of Scripture. Just like the doctrine of the Trinity, justification by faith alone is clearly taught in the Scriptures. Even Pope Benedict knows this too. The faith alone which justifies a sinner is never alone from a manifestation of charity and love of the redeemed ones.

Luther added the word ALONE to one version of the bible and if i am not mistaken, many Bibles after he died said th same hting… he added the word alone to a psg in romans that says we are saved through faith…

James 2:12 (& many others… such as St Mt 25:31- and st Mt 18:23… )refutes the notion that we are saved by faith alone… Faith without works is dead…

dead faith, no faith… no difference…

that doesn’t mean we have to be doing good works (soup kitchen work, etc) 24/7… although that wouldn’t be a bad idea… It is hardly possible, really…

but even when we are resting, we should be praying and thinking of God and/or ways in which we can serve him and others… If we are not thinking of Him all the time we will think of “stupid things” – vanity… and fall into sin…

and then we will, through sin, get further and fruther away form Him and could possibly eventually lose salvation…

 

[distracted]

LOL… you have a funny way to debate and discuss things. When you are able to show me the word “Trinity” in the Bible, I will show use the words “Faith Alone”. The 21st Century Pope believes in Faith Alone with the If qualifier too. The if qualifier needs to be there since we know that those who have been justified will bear the marks of a true adopted child of God, through charity and love. The redeemed ones will never look like the demons who believe and shudder, because the children God have a living faith in which the Spirit of God dwells in them… producing the good fruit of love through an active living faith.

Jesus said that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven… only those who DO his will… His will can be found in St Mt 25:31 and other passages…

 

[JohnnyBeth]

I think it depends on what you really mean by “things they need to learn.”

Regarding doctrine, absolutely not. Even your example of the Protestant emphasis on being “born again” is not something Catholics “need to learn” from Protestants because the Protestant understanding of how one is born again, what it means to be born again, and the effects of being born again are at odds with the Catholic teaching on the matter.
Are many of my Protestant friends very good examples of living a Christian life, of practicing the virtues, of witnessing for Christ? Yes. I love them, I admire them, and I am friends with them.

Is their doctrine and teaching sound? No. I don’t learn from them, I don’t do bible study with them, and I don’t emulate them in this regard.

Personally, I think Catholics should learn from the Catholic witness provided for us by the Saints.

Perhaps this is the core issue and Protestants being those Bible thumpers may have a point when it comes to the correct view, which is God’s view, on salvation. Something to think about.

The people who adhere to Biblical standards and doctrines concerning salvation cannot be any more sound that what God said can it?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Luther added the word ALONE to one version of the bible and if i am not mistaken, many Bibles after he died said th same hting… he added the word alone to a psg in romans that says we are saved through faith…

James 2:12 (& many others… such as St Mt 25:31- and st Mt 18:23… )refutes the notion that we are saved by faith alone… Faith without works is dead…

dead faith, no faith… no difference…

that doesn’t mean we have to be doing good works (soup kitchen work, etc) 24/7… although that wouldn’t be a bad idea… It is hardly possible, really…

but even when we are resting, we should be praying and thinking of God and/or ways in which we can serve him and others… If we are not thinking of Him all the time we will think of “stupid things” – vanity… and fall into sin…

and then we will, through sin, get further and fruther away form Him and could possibly eventually lose salvation…

We have to understand the nature of our divison within the family of God. The doctrine of justification as used by the Apostle Paul is based on the perfect righteousness of Chrsit which is credited (imputed) to our account through the instrument of faith. We are actually declared righteous in God’s sight, even though we are still sinners who needs the grace of God in our life of transformation. The righteousness that gives us peace and reconcilation is an alien righteousness that comes outside of our personal righteousness. This is Protestant theology and bibilcal theology. James chapter 2 is very significant but it speaks of a dead faith or a faith that is demonic since it does not work, or it does not grow in charity and in love.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Jesus said that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven… only those who DO his will… His will can be found in St Mt 25:31 and other passages…

True because the church is made up of sheep and goats, wheat and tares… alll professing faith in Jesus Christ. Please consider Hebrews 12 and how God treats true children of God, and bastards who are not His to begin with.

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. - KJV

It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. - ESV

 

[JohnnyBeth]

My Catholic husband learned about the Bible in school, but from then on, not so much. In fact, I was shocked to learn years ago that he didn’t even own a Bible. I cannot imagine not having a Bible on hand to go to for reference and regular reading.

Curious; how will you reconcile the differences from the Baptist point to the Catholic view concerning salvation? They are almost polar opposites; so which side you ultimately land will most likey determine your true relationship with the Savior. Soemthing worth looking into since eternity is forever and the Way, the Truth and the Life is written in and by the Living Word, which is Christ Jesus.

 

[JohnnyBeth]

True because the church is made up of sheep and goats, wheat and tares… alll professing faith in Jesus Christ. Please consider Hebrews 12 and how God treats true children of God, and bastards who are not His to begin with.

I love when people speak of God’s will; most misinformed people believe it lies solely in His two commandments; but they overlook the most important will God has that must preceed all the others.