Can Catholics learn things from Protestants... things they need to learn?

[distracted]

1. How to write really good praise music! I mean I like the music we do in church (mostly) but a lot of it, especially the new stuff, has nothing of praise in it. ( There are already several threads on this forum about that so I won’t go into it here.) But nothing like Robin Mark or Brian Doerksen or some of the other Christian songwriters out there. And I don’t mean just guitar-playing-stomp-your-feet-clap-your-hands stuff either. I’m talking about beautiful hymns that don’t happen to have organs behind them.
2. How to have more reverence for our house of worship. You see Protestants going to church in their best clothes. What do Catholics wear? Torn jeans, shorts, scandalous t-shirts! And we’re the ones who claim to have the real presence of our Lord in our Church. If we really believed that how can we disrespect him like that?

some of the most beautiful music i have ever heard has been in a CAtholic Church…

and i never go to Church dressed in raggedly clothes unless… perhap that is all i have, which is rarely the case i have to say… Also… some people may call some of my attire … uh… less than exemplary… (jeans and t-shirt once in awhile) but as long as its clean and not LOUD or distracting somehow… I don’t really care what people wear…

i wish people would just go to Mass Period… I am glad that the priests don’t usually harp on how somone dresses because that might scare certain blue collar workers away… &/or others…

 

[2nd_Adam]

I agree with 1ke. I’d also like to point out that being “born again” does not give you a straight ticket to Heaven. Those people still go to purgatory like most everyone else.

If you are born from above by the Spirit, then in the eternal game of Monopoly, those born of the Spirit have a pass and go card in Jesus Christ. All regenerate Christians skip purgatory regardless of being Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, Orthdox, etc. I’m sorry staunch Catholics, if you are born again then you don’t get to go to purgatory. What’s so great about Catholic purgatory anyways? I guess Catholics can learn from Protestants that those in the Catholic Church who are elect… don’t go to purgatory…

 

[CWBetts]

I agree with that, but nothing I have said can be challended in light of God’s word; you cannot successfully challenge what God has said. It is just as God said things would be; most religious people will be in hell forever; that’s a fact Jack! Matt. 7

JB

So who anointed you a prophet to tell anyone who disagrees with your theology (such as it is) that they are doomed to hell? I think you have proven my point about the arrogance of Evangelical Protestants.

 

[nsper7]

If you are born from above by the Spirit, then in the eternal game of Monopoly, those born of the Spirit have a pass and go card in Jesus Christ. All regenerate Christians skip purgatory regardless of being Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, Orthdox, etc. I’m sorry staunch Catholics, if you are born again then you don’t get to go to purgatory. What’s so great about Catholic purgatory anyways?

What authority do you have to make these proclamations? So shut up then.

 

[Cat]

i believe and agree with all except Numero Uno…

this made me laugh…

A Catholic needs to learn how to have fun without drinking?? !!!

you don’t know the Catholics i know… self included… but uhh… what’s wrong with drinking??

Are you able to have fun without drinking?

 

[2nd_Adam]

What authority do you have to make these proclamations? So shut up then.

As an adopted child of God, purchased by the blood of Christ… my authority is from God my Heavenly Father. I must obey God and not men when they tell me to shut up about sharing Christ and Him crucified.

And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. - Paul

 

[CWBetts]

If you are born from above by the Spirit, then in the eternal game of Monopoly, those born of the Spirit have a pass and go card in Jesus Christ. All regenerate Christians skip purgatory regardless of being Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, Orthdox, etc. I’m sorry staunch Catholics, if you are born again then you don’t get to go to purgatory. What’s so great about Catholic purgatory anyways?

Nothing impure can enter heaven. If all we are is a “snow covered dung-heap” thaen we arent pure. Here is an analogy. A father buys a new shirt for his son. He is given instructions. Don’t go outside and play in the new shirt. He goes playing anyways. While outside, he gets it dirty. He comes inside. “Daddy I got mud on my new shirt.” “Thats ok, I forgive you” is the reply. The child is forgiven. He won’t be punished. The shirt still needs cleaned.

 

[distracted]

See the topic of the thread; you obviously know it all and what God has said makes no difference to you; unless you change you will not see heaven and you can put that in the bank.
JB

well, i see you at least don’t believe in OSAS… apparently…

or do you think poster never was “saved” in the 1st place???

hmmm…

do you not see the judgmentalism here?? or is it just me??

i agree poster was rude… but is it Christain to return rudeness for rudeness??? and throw in judgmental-sounding stuff as well…???

i have seen a lot of rudeness on CAF… I know of posters who just get so tired of it they leave… Hopefully they come back…

but i just wish people would learn to see Jesus in other people… Am i guilty of not seeing HIm in others also?? Of course…

so i am not picking on just you… (I preach to myself as well…)

 

[2nd_Adam]

Are you able to have fun without drinking?

Reformed Christians drink to the glory of God!

 

[nsper7]

As an adopted child of God, purchased by the blood of Christ… my authority is from God my Heavenly Father. I must obey God and not men when they tell me to shut up about sharing Christ and Him crucified.

And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will. - Paul

You are a Protestant and your theology is incorrect. Therefore, I am going to call you on it because I do not want you infecting Catholics with Protestant spew.

EDIT: Where in Scripture does it say you have the authority to interpret Scripture?

 

[CWBetts]

Did you ever notice that is the Catholic Church under constant attack? Why? Because the Devil never bothers with those he is already sure of.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Nothing impure can enter heaven. If all we are is a “snow covered dung-heap” thaen we arent pure. Here is an analogy. A father buys a new shirt for his son. He is given instructions. Don’t go outside and play in the new shirt. He goes playing anyways. While outside, he gets it dirty. He comes inside. “Daddy I got mud on my new shirt.” “Thats ok, I forgive you” is the reply. The child is forgiven. He won’t be punished. The shirt still needs cleaned.

Well, Protestant Christians get cleaned after their rebirth and before they die… is a very slow progress and process through the Spirit who is making us more like Christ. Are you implying that your dung as a Catholic is not cleaned in this lifetime, but only in purgatory?

 

[CWBetts]

Well, Protestant Christians get cleaned after their rebirth and before they die… is slow progress and process.

If you not attain purity in this life, then more purification must be done after this life.

 

[nsper7]

Well, Protestant Christians get cleaned after their rebirth and before they die… is slow progress and process. Are you implying that your dung as a Catholic is not cleaned in this lifetime, but only in purgatory?

It’s up to the individual how much they clean their dung up in this lifetime? They more they do here, the less they do in Purgatory.

 

[2nd_Adam]

If you not attain purity in this life, then more purification must be done after this life.

Protestants don’t go to purgatory, but Catholics can go there if they want to.

 

[distracted]

Nothing impure can enter heaven. If all we are is a “snow covered dung-heap” thaen we arent pure. Here is an analogy. A father buys a new shirt for his son. He is given instructions. Don’t go outside and play in the new shirt. He goes playing anyways. While outside, he gets it dirty. He comes inside. “Daddy I got mud on my new shirt.” “Thats ok, I forgive you” is the reply. The child is forgiven. He won’t be punished. The shirt still needs cleaned.

i like this other analogy better… because we are not much like shirts…

a father tells his children to go out and play (3 of them). He tells them not to get dirty becaues they are going somewhere special later.

one accidentally falls in a mud puddle…

one is pushed into a huge mud puddle by a friend

one deliberately disobeys his father and jumps in the mud puddle…

Which one needs a bath??

which one will most incur the father’s wrath???

the washing we go through in getting our sins cleansed off our souls (the consequences of our sins) is what happens in Purgatory…

and even born-agains don’t have any guarantee that they will not need some kind of cleansing… In fact, i can pretty much say that all of them will need Purg before entering Heaven…

being born-again is great… i recommend it… the Catholic version is : Filled w/ the Spirit…
and i prefer that term because we are all "born again of water and spirit " when baptized…

anyhow… i don’t believe anyone can live in this sinful world very long without becoming TERRIBLY polluted by it… In fact I KNOW no one can… People who try to act like they are already holy enough and ready for Heaven are usually the hardest to deal w ith… because ***it isn’t that they are so holy and without stain on their souls… but more that they cannot / will not SEE it… ***

 

[2nd_Adam]

It’s up to the individual how much they clean their dung up in this lifetime? They more they do here, the less they do in Purgatory.

Again, you as my seperated bretherns are welcome to go to pugatory. I would rather dwell with God at my physical death and skip Catholic Purgatory. Paul revealed that absent from the body is present with the Lord. We biblical Christians get to skip pugatory!

 

[Bill_Pick]

How many times have we heard these claims before?

Many,many,many and as long as peop;e keep sending them MONEY

 

[JohnnyBeth]

The Sacraments are not human works. Sacraments are signs instituted by Christ that confer Grace, not by our own merit, but by the mercy of God. The ordinary means of salvation requires partaking of the Sacraments, but let me explain why they are not human works. Simply put, we aren’t doing anything. We present ourselves, but God is doing the work.

1. Baptism: God is washing away our sin. All we are doing is getting wet. I am not washing my own sin away. The minister is only acting as a “stand in” for Christ (In persona Christi).
2. Confirmation: God is bestowing the fullness of the Holy Spirit. I am not ordering the Holy Spirit to come down.
3. Holy Communion: The priest is not “taking Jesus out of Heaven,” but rather God is causing heaven and earth to intersect as a memorial to the crucifixion, which we participate in with the re-presenting of the sacrifice in a bloodless manner.
4. Confession: God is forgiving our sin. The Priest is acting in persona Christi. All we are doing is repenting of our sin, as we are instructed to in the Scriptures.
5. Anointing of the Sick: God heals us and prepares us to meet Him.
6. Holy Orders: God provides the grace for Priests to live according to their vows.
7. Holy Matrimony: God sanctifies the marital union.

Also keep in mind that 1, 2, 6, and 7 places an indelible mark on the soul. Once these Sacraments are received, they cannot in any way be “undone”. Also keep in mind that Catholics don’t talk about “doing” the Sacraments, but “receiving,” further showing that it is not what we do, but what God does.

Why so much denial; are you that embarrassed of your faith? You are doing something, we will call it works, that imparts some type of grace, where if you did not do it you would not receive that grace, which makes grace no longer grace as it is written.

The process of justification is then brought to a close by the baptism (WORK-mine)of water, inasmuch as by the grace of this sacrament the catechumen is freed from sin (original and personal) and its punishments, and is made a child of God. The same process (WORK-mine) of justification is repeated in those who by mortal sin have lost their baptismal innocence; with this modification, however, that the Sacrament of Penance replaces baptism.

This change happens either by reason of a perfect act of charity elicited by a well disposed sinner or by virtue of the Sacrament either of Baptism or of Penance according to the condition of the respective subject laden with sin. - God does not distinquish sin; this is putting oneself under the law and if one part is broken; God say the entire is broken.

By merit (meritum) in general is understood that property of a good work which entitles the doer to receive a reward (prœmium, merces) from him in whose service the work is done. By antonomasia, the word has come to designate also the good work itself, in so far as it deserves a reward from the person in whose service it was performed.

In the theological sense, a supernatural merit can only be a salutary act (actus salutaris), to which ***God in consequence of his infallible promise owes a supernatural reward, ***consisting ultimately in eternal life, which is the beatific vision in heaven. As the main purpose of this article is to vindicate the Catholic doctrine of the meritoriousness of good works, the subject is treated under the four following heads:
Source: new advent
newadvent.org/cathen/10202b.htm

The problem is called double-speak; say one thing here and say another over here; even if they contradict each other; something God never does. For example, Yeah it is faith alone, but you must do water baptism…but, but, but, but…you see it all over Catholic writings. I am getting the urge to really to begin to dig into all of this writing and manifest all the double-speak and contradictions; no wonder you are so confused; who wouldn’t?

 

[distracted]

Well, Protestant Christians get cleaned after their rebirth and before they die… is a very slow progress and process through the Spirit who is making us more like Christ. Are you implying that your dung as a Catholic is not cleaned in this lifetime, but only in purgatory?

the Church teaches that it is BOTH.

Eveyr Christian is already in Purg if he is trying to do everything Jesus says… but do you realize how hard it is to do everything He says?? He said to give up all our possessions and focus on Him alone … (paraphrase of st. Mark 10:17… or is it Luke?? I think it is Mark).

anyway… i am a pretty “purged” person sometimes… and then i will have some kind of altercation w/ someone who seems to hate me for no other reason than that i am a devout Catholic. That enrages me, for some reason… Of course i usually hide my rage but then later, when i am alone, i will think of the injustice they have committed against me and justified becaue i am not of that person’s same religion and i get & start using foul language (to myself) over the whole thing…

yes, i repent of this all the time… but I’m just tyring to make the point that the evil in this world can make you… uh… not very Christian… and it is a great impurtiy to hate people…even for a moment… I don’t hate people for very long, not more than a few minutes, usually… but hating someone even for a short time is … has consdequences on your soul… your relationship with God… and sometimes i don’t even SEE this… this damage until i go spend time with Jesus in the Real Presence in his Holy Church… We humans are good at blinding oursleves…

then there’s the sin of masturbation which just about everyone commits, i believe, at least once in awhile. the reason i feel most people commit this sin is because i myself have such a strong sex drive i can hardly keep from doing it myself… but with the grace of God i do… (the grace of knowing that i don’t want to feel separated from him like i always do after committing sin. I hate that feeling of separation SO SO much… very scary…makes me start praying a 1000 rosaries…[some sins do])…

anyhow, most protestants don’t think that is even a sin much less a serious one…

they will find out when they get to Purgatory… how GOD sees it…

if you want to find out what Purg feels like, visit Jesus in the Real Presence… Some holy person has said (and i believe) that the souls in Purg are There with Jesus… working out their salvation with fear and trmebling (Phil 2:12)… near to their Precious Savior…

that is the definition of Purg, i feel: to be stained horribly and damaged by sin… and to be in the Presence of Absolute Perfect Holiness… If you don’t feel a purging in that situation… something is terribly WRONG… We humans are so far from God from the effects of our sins and others that we don’t even know what absolute, perfect holiness IS… until we are There…