Can Catholics 'opt out' of an afterlife?

[user3856530]

Trust me, you don’t. Enough suffering to “teach you” whatever it is that suffering is supposed to teach, will come anyway - for the love of all that is holy, do not seek it out, or do anything to harm yourself on purpose.

I don’t go out of my way to seek it! ‘Want’ was the wrong word.
However, it’s there. Like it or not, it has shaped me as a human.

(I also have some amazing stuff to look forward to as well, God willing)

I’m not going to deliberately harm myself. Thanks for the concern.

 

[user3856530]

So you are faced with a choice: either the beatific vision or eternal fire. No other alternatives. (Granted, with the former, it may be with a brief interlude for purgation, but relatively speaking, that will be brief) Opting out is not one of the choices.

Does the Catholic church still believe in the fire and brimstone version of hell, or just the absence of God?

 

[puzzleannie]

This may seem a strange question.

For the last 15 or 20 years I have not wanted an afterlife. After I die I would like there to be non-existence. The last thing I want is there to be any form of afterlife, regardless of the form it takes.
I am happy enough with the life that God has given me. However, it is enough - I don’t want anything else.
The Catholic faith seems to heavily promote an afterlife. I do not want a Catholic funeral, or any funeral where the emphasis is on life after death. Would it be ‘safer’ just not to be a Catholic, or can I opt out of the afterlife part?

No you have no choice on whether or not you will have an “afterlife” anymore than you did on having a present life. It is God’s action, not your desire, that brought you into existence and His will, not yours, that extends that gift of life through all eternity. Your choice will be where, how and with whom you spend that eternity–with him in eternal bliss, or separated from him in eternal torment. Your call. But no you cannot wish yourself out of existence simply be declaring you do not believe in an afterlife, as your belief did not create life in the first place.

Does the Catholic church still believe in the fire and brimstone version of hell, or just the absence of God?

the Catholic Church believes what Christ said about hell, or gehennah, which is that it exists, it is a fitting punishment for unrepentant sinners who will banish themselves there by their own free will fully informed choice, and that the absence of God is so dire, so tormenting, so agonizing that fire and brimstone are but a poor literary analogy for that condition, but the best comparison language can offer. Since Catholics likewise believe Christ’s promise of the resurrection of the body, if follows heaven and hell both must be actual physical places which created bodies can inhabit for all eternity.

 

[masterjedi747]

Does the Catholic church still believe in the fire and brimstone version of hell, or just the absence of God?

Both together… and that’s technically not a teaching that has the ability to change in the future.

Maybe I require sadness and horror.

I doubt it, but… you do realize just how awful, terrible, and pitiful the souls in hell are going to appear to the souls in heaven, right? You want contrast, there it is… and this is an idea found even in the writings of Augustine. (Or even our reference to the “sorrowful heart” of Mary.) Heaven is - in a very real, but highly qualified sense - “improved” by contrast with the existence of Hell.

 

[user3856530]

No you have no choice on whether or not you will have an “afterlife” anymore than you did on having a present life

It’s unfortunate, but people do release themselves from their physical existence by committing suicide. So I suppose once someone is born, they do have that choice.

Your choice will be where, how and with whom you spend that eternity–with him in eternal bliss, or separated from him in eternal torment. Your call

If I do not want it, how can it be ‘eternal bliss’? If my manifestation in the afterlife changes to the extent where ‘I’ do want it, then I’m no longer ‘me’.

 

[jmcrae]

I’m not going to deliberately harm myself. Thanks for the concern.

Good.

I used to know some very talented, nice people who thought it would be “good for them” and help them improve their art, if they became drug addicts, homeless, etc. Most of them are dead, now. (It also didn’t improve their art, and in fact I think most of them stopped making art within a year after making that decision.)

They laughed at me for being safe, and good, but hey - I’m still making art, today.

Don’t “opt out” of your afterlife - it’s the only thing that will be there for you, later on.

 

[jmcrae]

If I do not want it, how can it be ‘eternal bliss’? If my manifestation in the afterlife changes to the extent where ‘I’ do want it, then I’m no longer ‘me’.

Your ideas are not “you.” You will always be the same “you” that was there at the moment of conception, before you had any ideas at all.

 

[user3856530]

Your ideas are not “you.” You will always be the same “you” that was there at the moment of conception, before you had any ideas at all

This is very thought-provoking.

Are you suggesting that my soul was created at the moment of my physical conception and does not change from then on, until eternity? Physical body and soul being quite distinct?
Are they not connected at all?

 

[PJM]

=user3856530;7126640]This may seem a strange question.

For the last 15 or 20 years I have not wanted an afterlife. After I die I would like there to be non-existence. The last thing I want is there to be any form of afterlife, regardless of the form it takes.
I am happy enough with the life that God has given me. However, it is enough - I don’t want anything else.
The Catholic faith seems to heavily promote an afterlife. I do not want a Catholic funeral, or any funeral where the emphasis is on life after death. Would it be ‘safer’ just not to be a Catholic, or can I opt out of the afterlife part?

I’m TRULY sorry for you. Obviously you have little or no understanding of either heaven or hell.

Still an aftrlife is a REALITY that faces all of us. Our ONLY option is wehre WE OURSELVES CHOOSE TO SPEND IT.

You would do well to consider the ONLY two optins available to you an to all humanity.

Love AND prayers friend,
Pat

 

[MerryCatholic]

This may seem a strange question.

For the last 15 or 20 years I have not wanted an afterlife. After I die I would like there to be non-existence. The last thing I want is there to be any form of afterlife, regardless of the form it takes.
I am happy enough with the life that God has given me. However, it is enough - I don’t want anything else.
The Catholic faith seems to heavily promote an afterlife. I do not want a Catholic funeral, or any funeral where the emphasis is on life after death. Would it be ‘safer’ just not to be a Catholic, or can I opt out of the afterlife part?

While you may be able to determine what kind of funeral you have, and whether or not you want to be Catholic, you cannot determine your afterlife. God the Father has made our souls eternal. Where we spend that eternity is up to us. We either go to heaven, or we don’t. Aynone who goes to Purgatory sooner or later, ends up in heaven. those who don’t end up in Purgatory or heaven, end up in hell by their own choice. be gad that God has given you an everlasting soul, because as Jesus said, you cannot imagine what God has in store for those that love Him. He meant heaven. why not opt for eternal happiness rather than try to opt out? Why would anyone want to opt out? I’d rather be in heaven with God the Father and know eternal, bliss than be non existent. I am glad that God made our souls eternal. Thank you Jesus!

 

[GEddie]

This is very thought-provoking.

Are you suggesting that my soul was created at the moment of my physical conception and does not change from then on, until eternity? Physical body and soul being quite distinct?
Are they not connected at all?

The physical Body and its “soul” are in fact distinct, the same way that a circle and its center are “distinct.” The center is not one of the points making up the circle. But there can be no circle without a center.

Likewise, the human soul allows the body to live and function. There is noplace in the human body that you would actually find the soul, not even in the brain (or the heart, as some romantics might imagine). But without the soul, there is no life, because a faculty of the human soul is life. Likewise, without the Body, one literally becomes “noBODY” because Bodies are what hold, express, and live the life proceeding from the soul.

So Soul and Body are distinct, but in no way disconnected. They are functionally inseparable. In Heaven, we will have a “Spiritual Body” that enables us to be alive etrenally (1Co 15)

Your mind is also a faculty of your soul, and certainly one of the purposes of our human life is to fill our minds. That is one way in which our souls will in fact “change.” Somehow, we still have our mind when life is restored to us in Heaven.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA!

 

[user3856530]

Your mind is also a faculty of your soul, and certainly one of the purposes of our human life is to fill our minds. That is one way in which our souls will in fact “change.” Somehow, we still have our mind when life is restored to us in Heaven.

I can see two problems with this.

First of all, if I do not want eternal bliss, but it is forced upon me, then it cannot be eternal bliss. My mind ‘retains’ when my soul goes to Heaven, so I haven’t changed to an entity that does want eternal bliss.

The second problem is that what happens to those people on Earth who are no longer sane? - or their mind has been permanently altered or damaged?

 

[LilyM]

Maybe I require sadness and horror.

The bad stuff has shaped me as a human maybe even more than the good.
I would not, for example, want all the bad stuff I’ve suffered to be stripped from my life. I have some terrible stuff on the horizon too, but I’m just going to have to live through it, and maybe learn from it.

I notice that I’m not alone in my feelings which gives me a strange comfort.

Put it this way - the suffering and horror we may possibly use during our life on earth, to fit us for heaven. Certainly many of the saints have had awful things happen to them in their lives, and have used that suffering for Godly purposes.

Doesn’t mean they didn’t ALSO attain to heavenly bliss, of course. Do they suffer still in heaven? Doubt it, for in heaven suffering further would serve no purpose. That’s WHY we don’t suffer in heaven - if it served any purpose to do so we still would. Heaven is where God wipes away the tears we’ve been crying all our life long, so obviously a lifetime of suffering is enough.

Have these saints changed after death? Maybe. Most likely they are simply like children who grow in wisdom and finally see the purpose of brushing their teeth or eating their vegetables and so come to want to do these things that they formerly disliked. No sudden change, just natural growth in knowlege.

 

[GEddie]

I can see two problems with this.

First of all, if I do not want eternal bliss, but it is forced upon me, then it cannot be eternal bliss. My mind ‘retains’ when my soul goes to Heaven, so I haven’t changed to an entity that does want eternal bliss.

Can’t help you there; with all due respect, your concern is completely foreign to me. I cannot imagine why someone would wish to stop being; I have enough trouble accepting my future physical death.

The second problem is that what happens to those people on Earth who are no longer sane? - or their mind has been permanently altered or damaged?

Damage to the human mind is a result of damage to the physical head; just as loss of sight results from damage to the physical eyes, and loss of mobility from damage to the physical limbs. Since Eternity will give each human being new eyes, new limbs, etc, the blind will see and the lame will leap, as Scripture states. Likewise, we will all have new heads, and so any damage to anybody’s human mind will be overcome.

God Bless and ICXC NIKA!

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

The prospect of Heaven isn’t appealing to him/her. The OP still serves and loves God even though he/she doesn’t care for either Heaven or Hell. Such is a great love. The OP serves God not because he/she doesn’t want to burn or wants to be happy for eternity, but simply because he/she loves God. Some good can be extracted from this, and we can all learn from this example.

I love the rest of your reply, but I disagree on this point, MarianD. The OP’s post strikes me as full of a deep sadness and dejection. We’re made for eternal happiness, and we fail to do justice to our God-given nature by settling for lesser things. Our Lord says that He came that we might have life, and have it to the full. This life should never satisfy us. Selflessness and love - and I admit, this is my opinion based on the personalities of Jesus and the saints - are vibrant, alive, unpredictable, paradoxical, explosive and rightfully insatiable. To me at least, there seems to be a terrifying emptiness - even a sense of nihilism and despair - in the surrender to this life’s paltry joys as things sufficient to satisfy us fully.

You say, “the prospect of heaven isn’t appealing to him/her.” How could it not be? What possible reason - ordinary or supernatural - could there be for preferring total non-being to a living and ever-deepening relationship with pure, infinitive Love? The OP’s situation is tragic. It’s total existential futility.

Thanks for all your responses so far. I will clarify my question.

Thank you.

So why do I not want an afterlife?

No. I would not want that. You can’t appreciate happiness without sadness. You need both.

It is difficult to understand how everlasting happiness is possible, isn’t it? We certainly do need sadness to appreciate happiness in our present condition.

But the universe is a bigger, more mysterious place than we can imagine. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy (to paraphrase Hamlet).

None of us can explain how it is possible for heaven (pure, eternal happiness with God) to exist, because we don’t know ourselves. But please ask yourself if you don’t sense deep down that you were made for happiness, for love - not for mere contentment.

One of the reasons, for instance, that I find Christianity so much more profound and sublime than Islam ever could be is the difference in afterlife. To my sinful, worldly mind, the pleasures of Islam’s “paradise” sound very, well, pleasurable. But I know that they would never satisfy me - or any human being - for eternity. It would all become stale, meaningless.

And I say this not as someone who truly comprehends it. Often I feel as though to be happy all I need is worldly things - good friendships, truly believing in myself, accomplishments, hopefully one day a wife and children, etc. But this is a spiritual flaw in me. I recognize that I’m wrong - and not intellectually, but truly wrong about myself and my desires - to think that any of these things - or even all of them - would satisfy me.

If I ever reach a point in my life where I feel completely and perpetually satisfied, I will have given up my humanity. If such a thing is even possible.

I simply believe that what God has already given me is enough. Why should I want more?

Oh, He disagrees. You should want more because He has more in store for you. To be honest, I don’t believe that you’re really happy. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think you’re lying. I just think that you’re settling without realizing that you are.

Look at what we’ve already been given! Can people truly appreciate life if at the back of their mind they are waiting for ‘desert’?

But heaven isn’t dessert. If anything, all the things of this life are the appetizer. Heck, even that goes too far - this life is the glass of water the waiter brings to your table before you order, or perhaps the mere sight of the restaurant from a distance as you approach it.

I would rather nothingness. If I no longer existed after death I would be none the wiser about an afterlife, whatever form it takes.

But we can never be nothingness. We have immortal souls. Real existence is so much a part of what we are that it almost defines us. Not even hell can extinguish our souls. Not even the twisted, shriveled, pitiful remnant of a human being that we’d become in hell can vanish from all existence entirely.

So my question is, can I opt out of it? Could the priest not pray for the repose of my soul, or indeed prays for its complete destruction?

Well, I don’t think it’s fair to throw Catholic teaching at you, but since you are asking…

The Catholic answer is, of course, no. You can’t opt out of it. Even if the Blessed Virgin herself prayed for your soul’s destruction, God would not oblige. Perhaps he could not oblige; I don’t know. I’m not a philosopher or theologian, but there are things God can’t do in spite of His omnipotence (i.e. create a square circle, a rock so big that not even He could lift it, etc.).

We’re made for immortal life. At the core, to the deepest depths of our innermost identity, we are immortal. Not even physical death - as mighty, impervious, and inevitable as it is - can wipe out our existence. Heaven or hell for all eternity is what awaits us. We must exist. We cannot not exist. Either we choose to love God and let Him love us for all eternity, or we cling perpetually to our own utterly unaccomplishable self-destruction in hell.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Not a strange question at all.

I feel the same way. I feel “forced” into an afterlife, an after life that is an all or nothing proposition (heaven vs hell); I just can’t stand it. I understand your feelings here. Sadly, you can’t opt out, I wish I could not be a Catholic to avoid the Catholic afterlife as well. But No, if you do that, (provided the Catholic Church teaches truth about the afterlife), you will find yourself in heaven or hell just the same. and I bet you increase your odds of hell by not being Catholic.

It does feel strange to me sometimes as well. But I do believe it. I can’t explain why. It reminds me of something I read once in Kierkegaard’s Either/Or, but I only read a selection, and I don’t know if the whole work is relevant here.

I do believe, though, that sometimes in life we just have to choose between two irreconcilable alternatives. And it makes sense if God is Love that heaven vs. hell is such a choice. If God is Love - pure, infinite, perfect - then that’s not something that comprises, not something that even can compromise. To accept God’s offer is to embrace infinite love. To reject God’s offer is to reject infinite love. And to pass that offer by is also to reject it…

 

[wjp984]

Sorry, you’re stuck and you only get to opt out of Heaven; you don’t get to opt out of eternity because the soul is immortal.

Though the prospect of eternity is a long, long time and in this earthy capacity, I can understand how after enough thousands of years it can become so boring that even the most pleasurable of things are miserable. However, Heaven is beyond anything conceivable. It’s just being with God and no one can claim to know what the answer is but there is absolutely no reason not to desire it.

In fact, there is a sin called pride which can result in ending up in Hell. It might be considered very prideful to believe that this Earth is all there is and better than anything God has or that God is incapable of keeping one eternally happy forever.

It also might be despair but I think it is more pride.

 

[Newbie2]

I’m on the same boat as him, I rather not have an after life.

See below:

Thanks for all your responses so far. I will clarify my question.

I’m not calling the existence of an afterlife into question. I believe there is an afterlife. (How can one opt out of something that does not exist?). I’m a Catholic and went to a Catholic school, and Mass on Sunday. (‘Promote’ was a wrong choice of word’)

With regards ‘knowing about God’. I admit I know infinitely little about God and the nature of God. What I do know fills me with awe. God’s creation is indeed spectacular and I am grateful for the gift He has given me. Nearly every day I learn something new about God’s creation, and life is full of surprises, good, bad, evil, wonderful. Life is also extremely challenging and rewarding. Often I believe I have it all sussed out, only to get the rug whipped out from under me. I suppose most people know this stuff already.

I sometimes feel depressed, but I write this with a joyful heart. I’ve had an excellent day today, maybe a bit too hedonistic!

So why do I not want an afterlife?

No. I would not want that. You can’t appreciate happiness without sadness. You need both.

The idea mentioned in this thread that I feel not worthy, or no right to it certainly is noble, but alas not quite true. If God believes I deserve an afterlife because Jesus guaranteed it for me, well I’m not going to argue with that.

I simply believe that what God has already given me is enough. Why should I want more?
Look at what we’ve already been given! Can people truly appreciate life if at the back of their mind they are waiting for ‘desert’?
I would rather nothingness. If I no longer existed after death I would be non the wiser about an afterlife, whatever form it takes.

So my question is, can I opt out of it? Could the priest not pray for the repose of my soul, or indeed prays for its complete destruction?

No, there is no “opting out”. You’re stuck with your soul for eternity. The only thing you can influence is how you spend it.

Once you accept that, the next question is:

Do you want to be happy in this life? Yes? No?

 

[Leela]

This may seem a strange question.

Yeah, but I know what you mean. The whole notion that life has no meaning it this life is all we have just raises the issue of the meaning of the afterlife. Every description I’ve ever eard of what it’s supposed to be like sounds nice but also completely meaningless.

 

[jmcrae]

This is very thought-provoking.

Are you suggesting that my soul was created at the moment of my physical conception and does not change from then on, until eternity? Physical body and soul being quite distinct?
Are they not connected at all?

Actually, your body and soul are very connected - what you do with your body has a direct effect on the state of your soul (if you commit a sin with your body, your soul enters into the state of sin; if you go to Confession and receive Holy Communion into your body, your soul enters into the state of grace) - and things that happen in your soul have a direct effect on your body - if you are melancholy, your body becomes ill - have you ever noticed how stressful changes in your life are so often accompanied by a bad cold? And if you are joyful and positive, your body becomes more healthy - scientists have observed that cancer patients who take joy in small things tend to recover more quickly than those who are melancholy.

Your soul has experiences and is strongly influenced by your behaviour and your ideas, but having different behaviour and different ideas will not cause you to have a different soul. Indeed, your soul is the one thing that remains identical throughout your whole life, since every seven years, the DNA of your body rewrites itself to give you a different body, and of course you have already observed that your ideas also change over time, thus making you seem to be a completely different person - but you remain the same person, because you retain the same soul throughout your whole life.