Can Catholics participate in yoga?

[crazzeto]

Yoga (Sanskrit, Pāli: योग yóga) is a physical, mental, and spiritual discipline, originating in ancient India.[1][2] The goal of yoga, or of the person practicing yoga, is the attainment of a state of perfect spiritual insight and tranquility while meditating on Supersoul.[3] The word is associated with meditative practices in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism.[4][5][6]

Within Hindu philosophy, the word yoga is used to refer to one of the six orthodox (āstika) schools of Hindu philosophy.[7][8] Yoga in this sense is based on the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, and is also known as Rāja Yoga to distinguish it from later schools.[9] Patanjali’s system is discussed and elaborated upon in many classical Hindu texts, and has also been influential in Buddhism and Jainism. The Bhagavad Gita introduces distinctions such as Jnana Yoga (“yoga based on knowledge”) vs. Karma Yoga (“yoga based on action”).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga

Yes yes, wikipedia but in many cases it is very correct. I maintain my points, first and foremost Yoga is oriented towards an Oriental, non-christian compatible idea of the divine. As such, one would be wise to see what the church has to say on the matter and accept it in humility. I’m sure as a long time practicitioner you want to bring your own idea’s to the table here, I accept that. I also accept that many people do it with the idea of exercise in mind.

But it is wrong to suggest that Yoga is first and formost it is spiritual, and oriented towards worship.

Actually, it developed alongside parts of Hinduism as a function of the understanding that man is body/mind/soul in a manner of speaking and all aspects need to be in top functioning order to clear the mind for spiritual work. What a lousy idea!

I’ve done asanas fo decades and this is the first time I’ve heard that though I took some from and Eastern religious. Derivation please?

Hmmmm…What if we just ask instead of argue about it?

I believe you have some information that is not quite “on.” And in any case, the positions themselves have no innate association with any object of “worship.” If they did, wouldn’t you automatically be seeing visions of the alleged “gods” or “spirits.” They are aimed at mental stability for whatever one wishes to use the mind for, that could be your Catholic practice, for heaven’s sake!

The idea of “abstraction” might usefully be applied here. Your stance is kind of like saying that you won’t ea food from another Country because it isn’t patriotic.

I would mind you, to not just assume everyone is out to try and judge your soul. Some have responded inappropriatly, fine. But this is a discussion about Yoga and it’s compatibility with the Catholic faith. I will answer, without judging anyone.

 

[Baelor]

Actually, it is a pagan practice and yoga is really satanic.

Proof please? Otherwise I assume you know this statement is not true.

You cannot practice yoga and consider yourself Catholic.

Proof please? Otherwise I assume you know this statement is not true.

Each yoga position is an act of worship to a different spirit, and a different God. On this level, it is right for yoga to be disallowed.

It is not disallowed. Furthermore, yoga positions do not have to be “acts of worship.” Perhaps the first singing in humanity was an act of worship to the sun god or whatever. That does not meant hat that act cannot be reappropriated to beneficial purposes, as it in fact has.

Gods and Spirits I reject as daemons at worst, idols at best.

Proof? I assume you mean daemon and not demon. Daemons do not exist in Catholic theology, at least given the technical definition from the Greek.

 

[crazzeto]

Baelor, I assume your new. I would recommend using the quote multiple feature if you are trying to respond to multiple posters. Since you grabbed my posting, then I would direct you to my last posting which pulls some information about yoga generally, and about how this is very much rooted in the Oriental religions of Hidusim and Buddism.

As such, being an act oriented towards these religions, if the spirits which are being referenced do at all exist, then they are almost certainly daemons. No Angel, nor any soul resting in the repose of the Lord, would ask you to participate in a spirituality not oriented towards God. This is a fundamental of the Christian faith.

 

[Baelor]

crazzeto:

Baelor, I assume your new. I would recommend using the quote multiple feature if you are trying to respond to multiple posters.

Like this?

Since you grabbed my posting, then I would direct you to my last posting which pulls some information about yoga generally, and about how this is very much rooted in the Oriental religions of Hidusim and Buddism.

I read the posting. It did not address my questions.

if the spirits which are being referenced do at all exist, then they are almost certainly daemons

Define daemon. And proof please?

No Angel, nor any soul resting in the repose of the Lord, would ask you to participate in a spirituality not oriented towards God.

That is not the same as saying that the Hindu deities are demons.

 

[crazzeto]

Like this?

I read the posting. It did not address my questions.

Define daemon. And proof please?

Better use of quoting, if you used the little + graphic then clicked “post to thread” that is the mulitple quote function.

Daemons specifically, are fallen angels which have eternally turned them selves from God. Satan is the most well known of these, from Revelation we know approx 1/3 of angels “fell from the sky”. We don’t have an exact number for the number of deamons, but we do know there are plenty of them.

These daemons, will constantly act against God. They are the ones that would have you join spiritualities which are not oriented towards God. If you need a proof for this, then you need to study up on your faith more.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
old.usccb.org/catechism/text/entiretoc1.shtml

That is not the same as saying that the Hindu deities are demons.

If they exist, then they are. There is one God, of all the world. There are not many gods, there are none equal to God.

 

[Whadyamean]

I would mind you, to not just assume everyone is out to try and judge your soul. Some have responded inappropriatly, fine. But this is a discussion about Yoga and it’s compatibility with the Catholic faith. I will answer, without judging anyone.

Not sure who you are referencing here, C. but I’m not the one who made that observation about judgement, though I tend to agree with it in regards to some on here.

 

[Baelor]

These daemons, will constantly act against God. They are the ones that would have you join spiritualities which are not oriented towards God. If you need a proof for this, then you need to study up on your faith more.

That does not make sense. The Church teaches that all religions include some Truth. Are believers in Hinduism pre-Christianity led by demons? Are followers of non-Christian faiths who have never been exposed to Christianity led by demons? Hardly. The one with the lack of proof is you, as the Church does not teach what you are saying.

If they exist, then they are.

But they do not exist. Hindu deities do not exist, and therefore cannot be demons.

 

[Catholic90]

But they do not exist. Hindu deities do not exist, and therefore cannot be demons.

Exactly! There are no real, living Hindu gods, so they do not exist, so stretching yoga style is praying to no one, because the supposed entities do not even exist!

 

[Whadyamean]

Exactly! There are no real, living Hindu gods, so they do not exist, so stretching yoga style is praying to no one, because the supposed entities do not even exist!

Well said!

 

[GoldenLight]

Here’s a quote from Rev. Dreher describing the ideology of “centering prayer” which follows the same principles as yoga…

“Centering prayer (or yoga), differs from Christian prayer in that the intent of the technique is to bring the practitioner to the center of his own being. There he is, supposedly, to experience the presence of the God who indwells him. Christian prayer, on the contrary, centers upon God in a relational way, as someone apart from oneself. The Christian knows a God who is personal, yet who, as Creator, infinitely transcends his creature. God is wholly other than man. It is also crucial to Christian prayer that God engages man’s whole being in response, not just his interior life. In the view of centering prayer, the immanence of God somehow makes the transcendence of God available to human techniques and experience.

“Centering prayer is essentially a form of self-hypnosis. It makes use of a “mantra,” a word repeated over and over to focus the mind while striving by ones will to go deep within oneself. The effects are a hypnotic-like state: concentration upon one thing, disengagement from other stimuli, a high degree of openness to suggestion, a psychological and physiological condition that externally resembles sleep but in which consciousness is interiorized and the mind subject to suggestion.”

This type of “prayer” or meditation is a form of hypnosis; this has been proven by various studies by professional psychologists. They did tests to confirm that people under the hypnotic state of meditation used in yoga experienced a drop in blood pressure, respiratory rate, lactic acid level in the blood, and the galvanic conductivity of the skin.

The yogi instructors speak freely about the techniques they use, and why they use them. Kundalini Yoga Master Gurmukh admits in a video that yoga evokes energy through the postures, breathing techniques, chanting, and meditation. She says that it is necessary to: “Clear and empty the mind, awake the snake within you and go into a larger world.”

**People think they can separate the exercises that Yoga uses, from their spiritual roots, but this cannot be done. Ignoring something does not make it cease to exist. Occultism expert and ex-New Age practitioner Caryl Matrisciana says: “Most people have no idea what they’re doing when they practice the rituals of Yoga and think that they’re only basic physical exercises. They have no clue that all the ‘asanas’ (postures) are designed to prepare the Hindu practitioner for his belief in the ‘cycle of death’ known as reincarnation.”

Any Hindu will tell you that yoga is not purely physical – it was not designed for physical fitness, but to realign the serpent force within the body to achieve Godhood, which is yoga. Anyone doing exercise for fitness ought to look for exercises designed for that.**

 

[GoldenLight]

I guess practising Yoga is saying ******* to the Pope !!!

Catholics on Yoga
In 1989 the Vatican issued a warning:

“ The Vatican cautioned Roman Catholics that Eastern meditation practices such as Zen and Yoga can “degenerate into a cult of the body” that debase4s Christian prayer. “ The love of God, the sole object of Christian contemplation, is a reality which cannot be “mastered” by any method or technique”, said a document issued by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. **[at that time under Cardinal Ratzinger now Pope Benedict VI. **
No Christians, should not do Yoga because Yoga is part of a Religious system
that is not compatible with Judeo-Christianity and mixing the two is
Syncretism and the Catholic Church warns against that. The Yoga system is to
reach an impersonal God head through manipulation of the physical body and
the Chakra energy centers that it teaches to attain enlightenment. This view
is Gnostic. Christians do not inherently believe that the physical body is
evil and that it will reincarnate many times to reach enlightenment.
Reincarnation is a heresy that the Catholic Church has taught against in
scripture and the Catechism. To a Christian the body is a temple of the Holy
Spirit and will be resurrected with our Lord in Heaven. The Good News of
Resurection is bad news to a Yoga Master whose ultimate goal is liberation
from his body?

There is no such thing as Christian Yoga,” states Moira Noonan. Yoga, which originates in Indian religions, is considered to be a part of the New Age movement and therefore is inconsistent with Christianity. The concept of yoga is to become self-enlightened and to attain self-salvation.  This is not of our God.

the Catholic Church is wisely cautious (the "narrow gate") and clearly it is the Holy Spirit Whom we are to go to when we want to cause a spiritual affect -- not our own or some other cosmic field of "energy."**

 

[Whadyamean]

Here’s a quote from Rev. Dreher describing the ideology of “centering prayer” which follows the same principles as yoga…

“Centering prayer (or yoga), differs from Christian prayer in that the intent of the technique is to bring the practitioner to the center of his own being. There he is, supposedly, to experience the presence of the God who indwells him. Christian prayer, on the contrary, centers upon God in a relational way, as someone apart from oneself. The Christian knows a God who is personal, yet who, as Creator, infinitely transcends his creature. God is wholly other than man. It is also crucial to Christian prayer that God engages man’s whole being in response, not just his interior life. In the view of centering prayer, the immanence of God somehow makes the transcendence of God available to human techniques and experience.

This is vastly misleading and due to the lack of comprehension of the referents of the terminology, is incorrect.

“Centering prayer is essentially a form of self-hypnosis.

It might by a stretch appear so to someone who has either an agenda or an ignorance of what is actually going on.

It makes use of a “mantra,” a word repeated over and over to focus the mind while striving by ones will to go deep within oneself. The effects are a hypnotic-like state: concentration upon one thing, disengagement from other stimuli, a high degree of openness to suggestion, a psychological and physiological condition that externally resembles sleep but in which consciousness is interiorized and the mind subject to suggestion.”

Again, using half-facts to make a wrong conclusion.

This type of “prayer” or meditation is a form of hypnosis; this has been proven by various studies by professional psychologists. They did tests to confirm that people under the hypnotic state of meditation used in yoga experienced a drop in blood pressure, respiratory rate, lactic acid level in the blood, and the galvanic conductivity of the skin.

Those are equally signs of hightened awareness, In fact, I don’t ever recall hearing them cited as signs of a hypnotic state.People who observed me in meditation with my eyes closed were amazed as to how much detail I was able to recount about their actions around me. Is that being hypnotized?

The yogi instructors speak freely about the techniques they use, and why they use them. Kundalini Yoga Master Gurmukh admits in a video that yoga evokes energy through the postures, breathing techniques, chanting, and meditation. She says that it is necessary to: “Clear and empty the mind, awake the snake within you and go into a larger world.”

Ask someone who has had this experience if their ordinary day to day energy level is very satisfying, or at least that the astonishing feeling of energy and freedom that comes with such an event is not to be desired as a normal state. All your functions are improved, similarly to someone having the time-stopping awareness of “being in the zone” in sports or during an emergency. This is why many folks do dangerous things: it precipitates a state of clarity of attention and detail unmatched otherwise, except in mediation.

**People think they can separate the exercises that Yoga uses, from their spiritual roots, but this cannot be done.Of course not. If you sit a ceain way, you rleg goes asleep. If you do aerobic training your blood flow increases. If you do systematic stretches and such, your ligaments and sinews become more supple and you muscles dump toxins and receive nutrients.

Ignoring something does not make it cease to exist. Occultism expert and ex-New Age practitioner Caryl Matrisciana says: “Most people have no idea what they’re doing when they practice the rituals of Yoga and think that they’re only basic physical exercises. They have no clue that all the ‘asanas’ (postures) are designed to prepare the Hindu practitioner for his belief in the ‘cycle of death’ known as reincarnation.”

**Yes, “to prepare the Hindu practitioner” according to his faith. If those things do not exist, or are not in your awareness, what is the problem? If those things were inherent in the movements, the casual participant would be having visions of specifically Hindu gods and intimations of lives to come, no? Does that happen?

Any Hindu will tell you that yoga is not purely physical – it was not designed for physical fitness, but to realign the serpent force within the body to achieve Godhood, which is yoga. Anyone doing exercise for fitness ought to look for exercises designed for that.

That, again, is a mis-statement, and if it came from a Hindu, they are at the same level of understanding as a very very casual Catholic is about* their* faith. And “Any Hindu” is an allness statement not becoming an actuarial proposition. So go ahead, listen to someone who is clueless. It will serve you well in defending yourself from something that you need no defense from.

 

[RogerDeCourcy]

I think at this stage of my life I’m not going to bother with, or recommend, flirting with anything associated with a pagan religion.

Time is short, Hell is hot and Judgement approaches.

My opinion is that there are lots of little snares in life that can trip the unwary. People fall: drink, sex, gambling, solipsism, neo-paganism, protestantism, avarice, tarot. Lots of little lures. Won’t trap everybody but the Devil just works the percentages.

Someone does yoga for the exercise, then takes it a bit farther. Cults won’t say straight out: “Yes, we are W, founded by X, who was taught by Y, who worshipped Z and built this system as a result”.

 

[crazzeto]

That does not make sense. The Church teaches that all religions include some Truth. Are believers in Hinduism pre-Christianity led by demons? Are followers of non-Christian faiths who have never been exposed to Christianity led by demons? Hardly. The one with the lack of proof is you, as the Church does not teach what you are saying.

But they do not exist. Hindu deities do not exist, and therefore cannot be demons.

It makes perfect sense, if there are spiritual beings, demanding worhsip who are not God (i.e. hindue gods), then they are daemons. It is that simple, God would not lead you away from him self, he would not turn your eye from His Son and His Passion. Thus, should these gods exist at all, then they are not of God. If they do not, then they are idols. That the hindus would have discovered some truth, does not negate this.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

It makes perfect sense, if there are spiritual beings, demanding worhsip who are not God (i.e. hindue gods), then they are daemons. It is that simple, God would not lead you away from him self, he would not turn your eye from His Son and His Passion. Thus, should these gods exist at all, then they are not of God. If they do not, then they are idols. That the hindus would have discovered some truth, does not negate this.

Even so, this does not make the gods they are posing any more real. If I were a spy claiming to be a Mr. X, then people treat me like Mr. X. I deceive them to think I am Mr. X. They think Mr. X is a real person because he is my alias.

However, the truth is Mr. X doesn’t exist. He is a mask, a facade, and a lie. In essence, he does not exist.

 

[Baelor]

It is that simple, God would not lead you away from him self, he would not turn your eye from His Son and His Passion.

You are ignoring the situation in which someone is not led away from Christianity because exposure to it has been zero. Could you point to a particular place in Church teaching that states that people who have had no exposure to Christianity and are Hindu have been inspired by demons?

Thus, should these gods exist at all, then they are not of God. If they do not, then they are idols.

They do not exist, so they are idols.

 

[crazzeto]

Even so, this does not make the gods they are posing any more real. If I were a spy claiming to be a Mr. X, then people treat me like Mr. X. I deceive them to think I am Mr. X. They think Mr. X is a real person because he is my alias.

However, the truth is Mr. X doesn’t exist. He is a mask, a facade, and a lie. In essence, he does not exist.

I think I know what you are getting at (i.e. they are not real gods), that is sort of implicite in my point that if there is a being, which demanded and received worship from Hindus, then it is not a god but daemons.

 

[crazzeto]

You are ignoring the situation in which someone is not led away from Christianity because exposure to it has been zero. Could you point to a particular place in Church teaching that states that people who have had no exposure to Christianity and are Hindu have been inspired by demons?

They do not exist, so they are idols.

Baelor, I admire your Christian sense of tolarance and understanding. But it is indeed to be lead astray from God, having never heard of Him in the first place. Otherwise you suggest it is impossible with someone of full knowlege, to purposfully decieve someone and place them on a path not likely to ever lead to truth before they have had a chance to be exposed to it.

Remember, Satan has existed since the begining of creation, far longer than Hindu culture. The same can be said of all daemons, they all rebelled at the same time. Acknowlegeing the truth, which I state, does not contradict any point you have made.

it is possible for the hindu to have some sense of the truth, even if they are lead astray by idol worship and daemons.

 

[Baelor]

I think I know what you are getting at (i.e. they are not real gods), that is sort of implicite in my point that if there is a being, which demanded and received worship from Hindus, then it is not a god but daemons.

But that is asserting an etiology to the religion that may not exist. An alternate version: they saw God but misinterpreted, hence Hinduism.

But it is indeed to be lead astray from God, having never heard of Him in the first place. Otherwise you suggest it is impossible with someone of full knowlege, to purposfully decieve someone and place them on a path not likely to ever lead to truth before they have had a chance to be exposed to it.

But Hinduism is more like God than atheism is like God. If you believe that non-Christian religions are inherently tainted and evil and devoid of value, then you are at odds with the Church. Hinduism is not “a path now likely to ever lead to truth.” Atheism is such a path because it rejects the divine entirely.

it is possible for the hindu to have some sense of the truth, even if they are lead astray by idol worship and daemons.

I agree. But I do not agree that they are lead astray by demons necessarily.

 

[crazzeto]

Baelor,

I guess beleive whatever makes you feel most comfortable about hinduism. I will say this though, beleive daemons are out in the world actively seeking to make you stumble. They will take many forms, and attack in many ways. Some times even though possession, usually with temptations. I have heard of one person who had a dream, that a wolf came to him, said “I am your god, and to prove it you will wake up at 3:30am”, then in the dream had sex with him. Later, this person woke up at 3:30am, and to this day accepts this “wolf spirit” as his god.

Do you believe this person to be misuderstanding God? Or is this persons’ god something else?

Again, beleive what makes you feel best. I maintain everything I said. Some times the truth is better.

Edit
Incidently, again. It is helpful if you use the quote button. This helps people identify the active participants in a conversation.