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Mulligan2
Guest
Every issue you mention above is about controlling the behavior of others. The republican party is truly the party of big government.
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estesbob
Guest
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So you didnt get it either, I take it?
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CrossofChrist
Guest
Every issue Holly mentioned Catholics must oppose. It’s not about controlling others either–there is no freedom or justice without truth.
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estesbob
Guest
Or without the right to life.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
No, I understood it. But I thought that given the hint that the main stumbling block was the misunderstanding of a commonly misunderstood phrase, any competent googler could correct that deficiency with no further help from me.
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CrossofChrist
Guest
Anyone who thinks we can have a just or free society without the right to life isn’t basing their beliefs on truth.
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Mulligan2
Guest
If it’s not about controlling others, then why try to impose your beliefs via coercive force? Why can’t you simply convince others of the “truth” without using government to do so?
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ishii
Guest
Right. Let’s throw out all our laws against rape, etc. too. Don’t want to “coerce” anyone. Guy robbing a store? Let’s try to convince him that’s wrong and hope he doesn’t also shoot the storekeeper. And if he does shoot the storekeeper, well, our society doesn’t provide jobs and opportunity - doesn’t address the root causes of why people steal, so let’s address those root causes. Even if we criminalize theft people will still steal.
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ishii
Guest
Thank you. Cross of Christ. So would that hold true for a Nazi candidate? He doesn’t want to send the Jews to the gas chambers, he just wants to get the trains to run on time. Should we therefore say that “Catholics shouldn’t vote for Nazi candidates” is an unfair “a priori assumption” ?
Is there anything a party can do/stand for that would preclude membership in the party? At some point do we say, actively supporting a party means that you are at least indirectly helping the party’s platform and goals?
I posed that question to pnewton but never got an answer.
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Mulligan2
Guest
With all due respect, your above analogy is absurd, and is purely designed to distort.
In today’s GOP, microscopic cells are people, and corporations are people, yet women are not treated as rational people who are capable of making their own decisions.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
No, it just would mean no government approval & monies for such actions
Saying the entire party is; that’s too generic.
It’s impossible from a point of political science for the pure, modern conservative to be pro-government, especially in the sense that democrats are.
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estesbob
Guest
Since she wss referring to two issued that were not voted in but imposed by the courts this has got to br one of the more ironic posts I have seen in a long time.
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ishii
Guest
So I can assume you’re against laws against rape and theft because they are “coercive” ? I only ask you because you didn’t/couldn’t answer at all.
Btw, today’s Democrat party has apparently not seen an unborn child that is worthy of protecting. As a Catholic I believe that is something we should focus on, rather than on ranting about GOP’s views on corporations.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
If it is absurd, then why didn’t you cite how it is absurd or not an apt analogy? On the face of it, it seems to be a very apt analogy, illustrating the point that some actions of right and wrong (like murder) you are willing to enforce by government, and some actions of right and wrong (like abortion) you prefer to rely totally on gentle persuasion. Yet you give no reason why gentle persuasion is appropriate to stop abortion while police force is appropriate to stop murder, unless you had already assumed that abortion was not as serious as, say, illegal parking, which I assume you also would allow to be enforced by police action.
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estesbob
Guest
Since she wss referring to two issued that were not voted in but imposed by the courts this has got to br one of the more ironic posts I have seen in a long time.
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ishii
Guest
Pnewton, this is what the Democrat party is proposing to undermine GOP pro-life efforts at the state level:
“The Women’s Health Protection Act is a response to the wave of antiabortion legislation that has passed in states in the past several years. The bill would prevent states from implementing restrictions—such as admitting privileges at local hospitals for doctors, structural requirements for clinics, mandated waiting periods, and mandated ultrasounds—that do not significantly advance women’s health and safety, and that make abortion services more difficult to access.”
Pro-life groups are calling this Democrat proposed law the “Abortion Without Limits Until Birth Act.”
This is the Democrat party, pnewton. Anyone willing to run under that banner does not deserve the votes of a Catholic truly interested in the sanctity of life. Those just “sort of” concerned about the unborn, go ahead and vote Democrat.
nationaljournal.com/health-care/cruz-senate-democrats-abortion-bill-is-the-war-on-women-20140715
Ishii
Mark121359
Well-known member
No one here is trying to control anyone. And these are not “our beliefs.” This is clearly what the Church believes. And although she doesn’t explicitly say you cannot vote democrat, she clearly shows you the positions that are most important, and gives you clear guidelines. And at the*** top*** of this list are life issues. Abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning and so on. So-called homosexual “marriage” is also very high on this list. Can anyone here deny, that for the most part, democrats give full support to all of the aforementioned issues? And yet I guarantee you, if Hillary Clinton were going up against say, Rick Santorum…you would still vote Clinton. Disregarding the fact that she fully supports the above mentioned evils. And you would come on here and post page after page arguing your reasons for doing so. Even though Santorum is a Catholic in good standing and is true to the Church and her teachings. Look, I don’t deny for an instant that my traditionalist Catholic views would more than likely prevent me from ever voting democrat. But I will vehemently deny that I vote Republican. I vote Catholic! My conscience takes over completely. It sees very clearly the sickness that must be present in those who would allow, and indeed promote and protect the “rights” for one to dispose as you would garbage, a precious innocent human life. And my conscience sees clearly the disastrous effects that the destruction of traditional marriage has on the family, and society. And I also see very clearly which party is more likely to support and promote these evils.
One other thing that I have to mention again, is the HHS Mandate. This to me was so over the top, that I can’t imagine that any Catholic with a well formed conscience could simply brush it aside. When Secretary of HHS Kathleen Sebelius, (a “catholic”) said that aside from houses of worship, all other religious agencies and organizations, including the likes of EWTN and the Little Sisters of the Poor, would be required to provide sterilization and contraceptive services, including abortifacients, in their employee healthcare plans, or face severe fines and penalties…I thought to myself, how low can you possibly sink! And even when the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Hobby Lobby, Democrats pushed for a bill that would undermine the Supreme Court Hobby Lobby ruling. It showed me vividly that this party has no respect whatsoever for people of faith. I don’t know about you, but I love the Holy Catholic Church more than life itself. And when someone goes after her that ruthlessly, and without ever relenting…I see red.
Peace, Mark
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estesbob
Guest
Its purpoee is to make abortionists like Gosnell are never again persecuted by the State
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Exiled_Child
Guest
Generally speaking, Catholics can’t vote for anyone with a clear conscience. We can’t help seeking a politician who is decent, but I believe it’s an exercise in futility. No State could ever be Christian, it’s just inherently impossible. It’s why Catholics will always be outsiders.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
The issues mentioned are first and foremost issues that are in direct defiance of Church Doctrine, so,as one who identifies yourself a Catholic,do you see the Church as being controlling?
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