Can Catholics Vote Democrat?

[Sy_Noe]

Don’t you think allowing abortion is a graver evil than all the other issues in America? If it isn’t, which one or what combination is more serious than allowing abortion? And if you agree that abortion is the murder of a million people per year, then how do you justify voting for people who support that? Isn’t that like voting for Nazis?

I’ll answer this one time since you asked and will try to keep it brief. As I have no interest in talking about and debating this one issue to the degree Catholics do. We aren’t going to agree anyway.

But no I don’t in every case. I see many combinations of issues as pro life and no I don’t think it’s like voting for Nazis. I agree abortion is very tragic indeed and no one should take it lightly. But in my faith all lives are sacred and created by God. Including the unborn but also the lives of the woman, all of her loved ones, including the lives of her husband, her children who could be left without a mother if her health and life were at risk and she has no free will to choose overall what is best for her and her family. I also see 2 innocent victims in cases of rape and abortion. So I see no perfect solution in every case. I do see the long difficult road ahead though for a young girl or woman forced to experience the horrific crimes of rape and incest. And I’m not always clear if expounding upon this already difficult road ahead for her by having her to carry to term is the best in every case. But that’s one of the reasons I’m not of your faith. I don’t see every case the same and as cut and dried as Catholics do. The only thing I know for sure is I’m just so grateful I don’t have to walk in her shoes. I’ll leave it to God to judge their heart and mine and shall leave it at that.

 

[ishii]

I’ll answer this one time since you asked and will try to keep it brief. As I have no interest in talking about and debating this one issue to the degree Catholics do. We aren’t going to agree anyway.

But no I don’t in every case. I see many combinations of issues as pro life and no I don’t think it’s like voting for Nazis. I agree abortion is very tragic indeed and no one should take it lightly. But in my faith all lives are sacred and created by God. Including the unborn but also the lives of the woman, all of her loved ones, including the lives of her husband, her children who could be left without a mother if her health and life were at risk and she has no free will to choose overall what is best for her and her family. I also see 2 innocent victims in cases of rape and abortion. So I see no perfect solution in every case. I do see the long difficult road ahead though for a young girl or woman forced to experience the horrific crimes of rape and incest. And I’m not always clear if expounding upon this already difficult road ahead for her by having her to carry to term is the best in every case. But that’s one of the reasons I’m not of your faith. I don’t see every case the same and as cut and dried as Catholics do. The only thing I know for sure is I’m just so grateful I don’t have to walk in her shoes. I’ll leave it to God to judge their heart and mine and shall leave it at that.

The overwhelming majority of abortions are done for reasons of convenience - not rape, incest or health of the mother. To quote Mother Teresa: “its a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you might live as you wish” So thank you for your comments - hopefully everyone can understand where you stand and that sheds a great deal of light on why one would think its okay to vote for pro-abortion democrats. But Catholics are held to a higher moral standard.

Ishii

 

[Sy_Noe]

Oh, I’m sorry. Was my post not clear? I was saying that if one votes for pro-abortion Democrats with impunity, then they will have a hard time calling themselves pro-life. Is it fair to say that if one is okay with voting for pro-abortion candidates then they are okay with abortion? I am just trying to be clear. People come on these forums and post things - I just want others to know where they are coming from and not be fooled into thinking that its okay to vote for pro-abortion candidates. I prefer clarity to agreement. I would rather know where someone is coming from on an issue than be unclear. With that said, perhaps you can state where you are coming from - so there is no confusion.

Ishii

Yes your opinion about Democrats and voting was clear and no I wouldn’t necessarily say that is fair. But you’re welcome. I tried to stay brief and have nothing further to say. Like I already said I’ll leave my moral standards and heart in the hands of God.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

… No, but if I was in Nazi Germany, I would probably not spend every waking moment working for the anti-Nazi cause either (to the point where I wouldn’t even “waste time” mowing my lawn, for example). But I don’t think I would vote for a Nazi.

That is my point exactly. You treat your personal time capital differently than your political capital, and for no apparent reason. Why should they be treated differently in this respect? Staying with the Nazi theme instead of abortion, suppose you voted against the Nazis in 99 cases. But then you had some reason why you wanted one particular Nazi to win, so you voted for him. How is that any different than spending 99 evenings working for the opposition, but then one evening you went to the opera?

 

[JimG]

Well, casting one vote on election day doesn’t use up much of my time capital. I just won’t use it to vote for a candidate who is pro-abortion or pro-same sex marriage.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Curious to know that you voted for Nader in 2000 and not Gore? I remember watching Paul Begala on the CNN show Crossfire at the time and he would always say, “If you’re voting for Ralph Nader, you’re voting for George Bush.”

That case could be made if the voter was in a swing state where the electoral votes were up for grabs.

 

[DoGodsBidding]

Well, casting one vote on election day doesn’t use up much of my time capital. I just won’t use it to vote for a candidate who is pro-abortion or pro-same sex marriage.

Me neither. Those two things are non-negotiable.

DGB

 

[estesbob]

That case could be made if the voter was in a swing state where the electoral votes were up for grabs.

A vote for either wss a vote in support of intrinsic evil.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I made my decision some time ago, and felt I had no choice in doing so. Nor do I feel I have a choice now.

No ancestor of mine in this country was ever anything but a Democrat. I was a “cradle Democrat”. I worked for the party, held office in the party, raised money, held events, personally knew senators and governors, and believed in what I was doing.

My wife was a state-level officeholder in the party as well.

At a point in time, and I remember exactly when it was, my wife and I realized we could no longer support the party. Why? Because it became clear to us that the party stood for nothing other than abortion on demand. So, we realized our choice was clear. We could be Catholics or we could be Democrats, but not both.

Prior to that realization, I also realized that, despite its conventional reputation, it did nothing for the poor and working people either. It once did, and that’s why all of our parents and grandparents were Democrats. And it’s why we were too.

But in the last few years of our being activists, it was plain that the party was no longer an aid to working people and the poor. It hadn’t done anything since the Earned Income Credit, and that was Reagan’s!

And so, when being pro-abortion became the “litmus test” for being a Democrat, our departure was sad, but it was inevitable and, because the party was no longer interested in anything other than “gender politics” it wasn’t really a heart-breaker. The sadness was mainly the people we missed, and the activity. But we decided to be Catholic, and that was that.

After that, I did vote for one Democrat for sheriff. But now, I realize that I can’t support a candidate of an evil party without supporting the party, and thus the evil, itself.

We never became Republicans. We’re just ourselves now. Do I become irritated at some Repub policies and candidates? Do I disagree with them some? Certainly. But no Repubs on my ballot support intrinsic evils like abortions, profaning marriage or forcing orders of nuns to pay for abortifacients. It’s easy to vote for them, then, and against the Dems who do support those things. And they all do.

I will never vote for some obscure candidate either. That’s just pride talking. The only effective vote against the evils promoted by Democrats is to vote for those who have a chance of defeating them. That means Repubs.

Since our decision to be Catholics instead of Democrats, my wife and I have noticed a peculiar phenomenon, which I’ll express here. The Repub party of today resembles the Dem party of my young years more than the Dem party does. JFK and Truman and Symington and Jackson would be Repubs now. The Dem party would have nothing to do with them now. On the other hand, the Dems of today are like the “Rockefeller Repubs” of yesteryear. Elitist, catering to the wealthy, disdainful, anti-Catholic, interested in population control.

Interesting how things can change.

 

[adawgj]

I made my decision some time ago, and felt I had no choice in doing so. Nor do I feel I have a choice now.

No ancestor of mine in this country was ever anything but a Democrat. I was a “cradle Democrat”. I worked for the party, held office in the party, raised money, held events, personally knew senators and governors, and believed in what I was doing.

My wife was a state-level officeholder in the party as well.

At a point in time, and I remember exactly when it was, my wife and I realized we could no longer support the party. Why? Because it became clear to us that the party stood for nothing other than abortion on demand. So, we realized our choice was clear. We could be Catholics or we could be Democrats, but not both.

Prior to that realization, I also realized that, despite its conventional reputation, it did nothing for the poor and working people either. It once did, and that’s why all of our parents and grandparents were Democrats. And it’s why we were too.

But in the last few years of our being activists, it was plain that the party was no longer an aid to working people and the poor. It hadn’t done anything since the Earned Income Credit, and that was Reagan’s!

And so, when being pro-abortion became the “litmus test” for being a Democrat, our departure was sad, but it was inevitable and, because the party was no longer interested in anything other than “gender politics” it wasn’t really a heart-breaker. The sadness was mainly the people we missed, and the activity. But we decided to be Catholic, and that was that.

After that, I did vote for one Democrat for sheriff. But now, I realize that I can’t support a candidate of an evil party without supporting the party, and thus the evil, itself.

We never became Republicans. We’re just ourselves now. Do I become irritated at some Repub policies and candidates? Do I disagree with them some? Certainly. But no Repubs on my ballot support intrinsic evils like abortions, profaning marriage or forcing orders of nuns to pay for abortifacients. It’s easy to vote for them, then, and against the Dems who do support those things. And they all do.

I will never vote for some obscure candidate either. That’s just pride talking. The only effective vote against the evils promoted by Democrats is to vote for those who have a chance of defeating them. That means Repubs.

Since our decision to be Catholics instead of Democrats, my wife and I have noticed a peculiar phenomenon, which I’ll express here. The Repub party of today resembles the Dem party of my young years more than the Dem party does. JFK and Truman and Symington and Jackson would be Repubs now. The Dem party would have nothing to do with them now. On the other hand, the Dems of today are like the “Rockefeller Repubs” of yesteryear. Elitist, catering to the wealthy, disdainful, anti-Catholic, interested in population control.

Interesting how things can change.

Thanks for sharing. I’m curious to know what office(s) you held when you were a Democrat?

The problem I have is that I’m an Independent, but it is too difficult for me to vote because i disagree with Republican and Democrat platforms.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Well, casting one vote on election day doesn’t use up much of my time capital. I just won’t use it to vote for a candidate who is pro-abortion or pro-same sex marriage.

Casting a vote may not take much time, but it does use up some of your voting capital. Why is it wrong to spend some of your voting capital on a less-important end but OK to spend some your personal time capital on less-important pursuits?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Thanks for sharing. I’m curious to know what office(s) you held when you were a Democrat?

The problem I have is that I’m an Independent, but it is too difficult for me to vote because i disagree with Republican and Democrat platforms.

No offense, but I refrain from telling anything about myself on screen that might potentially identify me.

In looking at the parties’ respective platforms, I am unable to find anything in the Repub platform that is contrary to the teachings of the Church. There are definitely things in the Dem platform that are.

Possibly I did not express myself well. It is not so much out of devotion to Repubs that I always support Repubs. It is because I feel myself morally bound to oppose the Dem party, and do not believe I can meet that moral obligation other than by supporting the only viable adversaries the Dem party has.

That does not mean I support everything the Repbs do or say. But none of their policies that I have seen are intrinsically evil. They might be argued as being better for the country or not better for the country, but they’re not indisputably evil in themselves.

And I think too that if all Catholics voted against all Dems in two national elections, the Dem party would change those policies it has that are totally and indisputably evil. It would change because it would have to if it aspired to winning any more elections nationally. It’s too bad that more Catholics don’t realize that.

Catholics in this country could put an end to abortion on demand, homosexual marriage and mandates against conscience. So, in a way, it’s the fault of Catholics that those things are promoted by the Dem party and this administration. Since I am Catholic, I refuse to be a part of that portion of Catholics that are responsible for those evils.

 

[Mark121359]

I made my decision some time ago, and felt I had no choice in doing so. Nor do I feel I have a choice now.

No ancestor of mine in this country was ever anything but a Democrat. I was a “cradle Democrat”. I worked for the party, held office in the party, raised money, held events, personally knew senators and governors, and believed in what I was doing.

My wife was a state-level officeholder in the party as well.

At a point in time, and I remember exactly when it was, my wife and I realized we could no longer support the party. Why? Because it became clear to us that the party stood for nothing other than abortion on demand. So, we realized our choice was clear. We could be Catholics or we could be Democrats, but not both.

Prior to that realization, I also realized that, despite its conventional reputation, it did nothing for the poor and working people either. It once did, and that’s why all of our parents and grandparents were Democrats. And it’s why we were too.

But in the last few years of our being activists, it was plain that the party was no longer an aid to working people and the poor. It hadn’t done anything since the Earned Income Credit, and that was Reagan’s!

And so, when being pro-abortion became the “litmus test” for being a Democrat, our departure was sad, but it was inevitable and, because the party was no longer interested in anything other than “gender politics” it wasn’t really a heart-breaker. The sadness was mainly the people we missed, and the activity. But we decided to be Catholic, and that was that.

After that, I did vote for one Democrat for sheriff. But now, I realize that I can’t support a candidate of an evil party without supporting the party, and thus the evil, itself.

We never became Republicans. We’re just ourselves now. Do I become irritated at some Repub policies and candidates? Do I disagree with them some? Certainly. But no Repubs on my ballot support intrinsic evils like abortions, profaning marriage or forcing orders of nuns to pay for abortifacients. It’s easy to vote for them, then, and against the Dems who do support those things. And they all do.

I will never vote for some obscure candidate either. That’s just pride talking. The only effective vote against the evils promoted by Democrats is to vote for those who have a chance of defeating them. That means Repubs.

Since our decision to be Catholics instead of Democrats, my wife and I have noticed a peculiar phenomenon, which I’ll express here. The Repub party of today resembles the Dem party of my young years more than the Dem party does. JFK and Truman and Symington and Jackson would be Repubs now. The Dem party would have nothing to do with them now. On the other hand, the Dems of today are like the “Rockefeller Repubs” of yesteryear. Elitist, catering to the wealthy, disdainful, anti-Catholic, interested in population control.

Interesting how things can change.

Excellent post. I find it inexplicable, that any reasonable thinking, believing Catholic would not come to the same conclusion that you and your wife came to. You appear to be the exception nowadays. It’s commendable that you put your Catholic Faith first. I don’t often find this to be the case anymore. By the way, Kennedy was the last democrat voted for in my family by my parents! And you’re absolutely right with the bolded above. In fact, some of them might be more conservative than a lot of the current Repubs!

****Peace, Mark ****

 

[adawgj]

No offense, but I refrain from telling anything about myself on screen that might potentially identify me.

In looking at the parties’ respective platforms, I am unable to find anything in the Repub platform that is contrary to the teachings of the Church. There are definitely things in the Dem platform that are.

Possibly I did not express myself well. It is not so much out of devotion to Repubs that I always support Repubs. It is because I feel myself morally bound to oppose the Dem party, and do not believe I can meet that moral obligation other than by supporting the only viable adversaries the Dem party has.

That does not mean I support everything the Repbs do or say. But none of their policies that I have seen are intrinsically evil. They might be argued as being better for the country or not better for the country, but they’re not indisputably evil in themselves.

And I think too that if all Catholics voted against all Dems in two national elections, the Dem party would change those policies it has that are totally and indisputably evil. It would change because it would have to if it aspired to winning any more elections nationally. It’s too bad that more Catholics don’t realize that.

Catholics in this country could put an end to abortion on demand, homosexual marriage and mandates against conscience. So, in a way, it’s the fault of Catholics that those things are promoted by the Dem party and this administration. Since I am Catholic, I refuse to be a part of that portion of Catholics that are responsible for those evils.

I will respect your privacy.

I guess where I disagree with the Republican platform is mostly on environmental issues.
I agree with Republicans on abortion and gay marriage, and numerous economic policies like a free market, no gun control.

 

[Crossbones]

The Republicans on the state level have done a great deal to restrict abortion. This is good, as it will help overcome the previously justified (IMO) generalization that Republicans talk a good game, but do nothing.

It’ll be important to see these steps continue on a national level (especially if the Republicans win the Senate). Even if President Obama vetoes a bill, it is important that these bills get passed. Possibly the best thing that could happen for Republicans is force the issue and end up with Secretary Clinton as the Democratic nominee in 2016 running against a strong pro-life Republican. I think Secretary Clinton plays well to her base, but I think she’ll have trouble on the national stage (see, “we were poor” comments).

Of course, it’s the Republicans and they have a tendency to screw this sort of stuff up at the national level.

 

[Mulligan2]

To the OP - the short answer is YES.

 

[estesbob]

To the OP - the short answer is YES.

As long as they do not support abortion or homosexual marriage or forcing Nuns to pay for contraception that is correct.

 

[anthony022071]

The difference between the Democrat party and the Republican party is the same as the difference between liberalism/progressivism and conservatism. Liberalism/progressivism conservatism always involves a denial or deviation or undermining of natural moral law and justice,the natural order of society and worthy traditions. It substitutes authentic Christian love of neighbor and compassion with secular humanitarianism and pragmatism,which views people as mere creatures of needs and does not discern the soul or the image of God in man or man’s natural rights and responsibilities. So even with regard to policies that seem to be humane and compassionate,there is always involved a fundamental flaw in the anthropological view of man,and it has bad effects on people’s sense of morality.
For example,government welfare programs tend to weaken people’s sense of duty towards themselves and others and foster unnatural dependency upon the government and an entitlement mentality. Another example is the liberal/progressive opposition to the death penalty. It is not out of authentic Christian morality,which teaches that all human life is sacred and that we must be forgiving and merciful,but out of disapproval of just punishment for personal sins,and what Fulton Sheen called false compassion. This has to do with the disbelief in natural law and justice. The Church does not deny that the death penalty may be a just punishment for grave sins,which is why the Church has never completely rejected the death penalty. There are other reasons for rejecting the death penalty: the possibility of repentance,the needlessness of killing a man who is under restraint,and the stain upon the conscience for doing so.

Conservatism is based upon natural law,the natural order of society and worthy traditions,and therefore generally upholds morality,although in some ways it fails in charity and mercy and solidarity. For example,many conservatives are so defensive of individualism and property rights and capitalism that they reject the idea of the universal destination of goods and that giving to the poor is a commandment of God which must be done for eternal salvation,not just a matter of personal choice. They sometimes mistake Catholic social teaching (as liberals and progressives also do) as implying government redistribution or socialism. They have the attitude that people can do whatever they want with their money,even though they disapprove of prostitution and pornography and abortion. And many conservatives do not oppose the military dropping bombs on civilians in war.

Nonetheless,conservatism and conservative Republican politicians are more on the side of natural moral law,and therefore Catholic moral teaching,than liberalism/progressivism and most Democrat politicians are.

The Republican party does not support policies that go against natural law,but the Democrat party has policies that do.

 

[ishii]

Yes your opinion about Democrats and voting was clear and no I wouldn’t necessarily say that is fair. But you’re welcome. I tried to stay brief and have nothing further to say. Like I already said I’ll leave my moral standards and heart in the hands of God.

That’s too bad. I was hoping that we could have a discussion - for example why you grapple with the abortion issue when the overwhelming number of abortions are done for selfish reasons. I regret that some posters are vague and confusing on issues and in addition leave when faced with having to defend their positions. But then again, some positions are indefensible.

Ishii

 

[Dawnia]

The problem with making every political decision based only on the most serious issue is that no consideration is left for the second, third, and fourth most serious issues, not to mention the 50th, 51st, etc. You don’t run your personal life that way, do you? Do you spend every waking minute working for the pro-life cause? Or do you occasionally cut your lawn or even find time to go to a movie? In the same way, one can spend some of his political capital on issues besides abortion, even if those issues are less serious than abortion.

That isn’t an accurate comparison. When you need to put someone in charge of your children, are you focused on whether they are good with kids or a sexual preditor? When you put someone in charge of your money, are you focused on whether that person is good at math or that they are a convicted embezzeler?

Some issues are just more important than others when picking people in charge.