Can Catholics Vote Democrat?

[ishii]

Oh I’m not falling for your little patronizing game here…

Now let me ask you a question, how does it feel to have voted for someone who consciously voted to deny any help to wounded babies and let them die a slow death?

That’s a good question, Milasol. And I hope you get an answer. But something tells me you will get more criticisms of Bush.

Let me see if I have this straight: we can vote for Obama - the most pro-abortion president in history, even supports partial birth abortion… because Bush was…“bad.”

Here is another question I have of the pro-Democrat catholic Obama voters: in the after life, if you meet a soul that was aborted and they ask you, “did you support those who wanted the law to protect me, or did you support those who wanted to keep it legal to abort me?”

How will you answer?

Ishii

 

[Milasol]

That’s a good question, Milasol. And I hope you get an answer. But something tells me you will get more criticisms of Bush.

Let me see if I have this straight: we can vote for Obama - the most pro-abortion president in history, even supports partial birth abortion… because Bush was…“bad.”

Here is another question I have of the pro-Democrat catholic Obama voters: in the after life, if you meet a soul that was aborted and they ask you, “did you support those who wanted the law to protect me, or did you support those who wanted to keep it legal to abort me?”

How will you answer?

Ishii

See I used to be one like that. I hated the republicans so much that I actually considered voting for the democrats. I, however, was pro-life and when I actually compared candidates, at the national and state level, there was no more a question in my mind as to who would get my vote. And it was not the democrats.

Later, after research, I found out how the democratic party is really the engine of the abortion industry. They don’t just legislate pro-abortion but they are in bed with the entire abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research and a whole host of inhumane agendas.

Never never never… I will not aid that industry. Voting democrat does just that. Even if an individual democrat candidate says he/she is pro-life, (though one has a better chance of seeing a cow fly), the democrat party would vote as a block and it is the party as an entity that supports that entire industry. So never never never…

 

[zz912]

I genuinely can’t believe that so many people really seem to think that the GOP is the Christian party. Their platforms are misaligned with the teachings of Jesus in so many ways, it’s laughable. If you want to be a one-issue voter, then go ahead, but don’t try to convince yourself that everything else the GOP is doing is moral.

Could you expand on the areas where you think each party is aligned with the teachings of Jesus. Item by item, issue by issue, please.

 

[Milasol]

Here is another question I have of the pro-Democrat catholic Obama voters: in the after life, if you meet a soul that was aborted and they ask you, “did you support those who wanted the law to protect me, or did you support those who wanted to keep it legal to abort me?”

How will you answer?

Ishii

Excellent question. I haven’t thought of meeting the aborted souls in heaven. That is a really good one.

I have another one.

What would they say when God asks them, why did you support those who wanted to kill my creation?

 

[Milasol]

Isshii,
Talking about meeting the souls of the aborted babies in the afterlife, here is a good account of a Serbian abortionist who killed 48,000 babies.

He saw them in the afterlife. He also saw St. Thomas Aquinas. (Read it because it is amazing)

In describing his conversion, Adasevic said he “dreamed about a beautiful field full of children and young people who were playing and laughing, from 4 to 24 years of age, but who ran away from him in fear. A man dressed in a black and white habit stared at him in silence. The dream was repeated each night and he would wake up in a cold sweat. One night he asked the man in black and white who he was. ‘My name is Thomas Aquinas,’ the man in his dream responded. Adasevic, educated in communist schools, had never heard of the Dominican genius saint. He didn’t recognize the name.”

“Why don’t you ask me who these children are?” St. Thomas asked Adasevic in his dream.

"They are the ones you killed with your abortions,” the Dominican saint told him.

“Adasevic awoke in amazement and decided not to perform any more abortions,” the article stated.

“That same day a cousin came to the hospital with his four months-pregnant girlfriend, who wanted to get her ninth abortion - something quite frequent in the countries of the Soviet bloc. The doctor agreed. Instead of removing the fetus piece by piece, he decided to chop it up and remove it as a mass. However, the baby’s heart came out still beating. Adasevic realized then that he had killed a human being,”

After this experience, Adasevic “told the hospital he would no longer perform abortions. Never before had a doctor in Communist Yugoslavia refused to do so. They cut his salary in half, fired his daughter from her job, and did not allow his son to enter the university.”

After years of pressure and on the verge of giving up, he had another dream about St. Thomas.

“You are my good friend, keep going,” the man in black and white told him. “Adasevic became involved in the pro-life movement and was able to get Yugoslav television to air the film ‘The Silent Scream,’ by Doctor Bernard Nathanson, two times.”

lifesitenews.com/news/serbian-abortionist-who-aborted-48000-babies-becomes-pro-life-activist

 

[Crossbones]

Oh I’m not falling for your little patronizing game here…

Now let me ask you a question, how does it feel to have voted for someone who consciously voted to deny any help to wounded babies and let them die a slow death?

Well, I’m trying to understand where you are coming from, but I honestly don’t have a clue.

As far as voting goes, there isn’t a vote I make anymore that I feel good about. That’s why I’d like to encouraged by some aspects of the Republicans the last few years. The thought of not holding my nose when I punch the hole would be a nice feeling. Of course, I live in a state where my vote doesn’t matter for presidency, my congressional district is quite gerrymandered and both my choices for Senator in the last election were ‘pro-choice’. On the national level, I might as well not participate in the process.

 

[Crossbones]

That’s a good question, Milasol. And I hope you get an answer. But something tells me you will get more criticisms of Bush.

Let me see if I have this straight: we can vote for Obama - the most pro-abortion president in history, even supports partial birth abortion… because Bush was…“bad.”

Here is another question I have of the pro-Democrat catholic Obama voters: in the after life, if you meet a soul that was aborted and they ask you, “did you support those who wanted the law to protect me, or did you support those who wanted to keep it legal to abort me?”

How will you answer?

Ishii

Now, here I have thoughtful conversations with you and you accuse me of being a Bush basher. Are you missing the point that Bush’s ‘badness’ is what got President Obama elected and it wasn’t the ‘badness’ of President Bush being too pro-life? Everyone prioritizes their votes differently and Bush’s ‘badness’ cost Republicans votes. If the Republicans followed all the teachings of the Church more closely, they probably wouldn’t have lost in 2008 or 2012.

 

[ishii]

Now, here I have thoughtful conversations with you and you accuse me of being a Bush basher. Are you missing the point that Bush’s ‘badness’ is what got President Obama elected and it wasn’t the ‘badness’ of President Bush being too pro-life? Everyone prioritizes their votes differently and Bush’s ‘badness’ cost Republicans votes. If the Republicans followed all the teachings of the Church more closely, they probably wouldn’t have lost in 2008 or 2012.

If you go back and read this thread you will see lots of Democrat catholics rationalizing their votes for Democrats by saying, “Bush was bad.” Or “Palin was stupid.” etc. If you have not engaged in that then great - I haven’t read all of your posts. Was it all Bush’s fault for Obama’s win in 2008? No. But did he pursue policies (domestic) that helped conservatives be skeptical of Republicans? Yes. Was the country a bit tired of 8 years of Republicans? Yes. (same thing happened after Clinton). Bush basically spent most of his political capital on two wars which I think he genuinely thought was the right thing to do and best for the security of the country. (no - it wasn’t motivated by “war for oil” or to line the pockets of Halliburton, etc.). Hindsight is 20/20. I was for the war at first. I believed Clinton, the Democrats, Bush, Colin Powell, much of the rest of the world community who all believed that Saddham Hussein had WMD’s and would use them. The war happened. And the Afghan war too. I think we can learn a lesson about nation-building and the difficulties therein. Its hard enough for the govt. to run things here, let alone build another country up from the rubble with no democratic tradition. It worked in Japan, but they weren’t Islamic divided by two sects.

But this thread is about the Democrats. They are not worthy of the votes of Catholics as they have made a mockery of Catholic moral teaching on the sanctity of life.

Ishii

 

[Milasol]

Well, I’m trying to understand where you are coming from, but I honestly don’t have a clue.

As far as voting goes, there isn’t a vote I make anymore that I feel good about. That’s why I’d like to encouraged by some aspects of the Republicans the last few years. The thought of not holding my nose when I punch the hole would be a nice feeling. Of course, I live in a state where my vote doesn’t matter for presidency, my congressional district is quite gerrymandered and both my choices for Senator in the last election were ‘pro-choice’. On the national level, I might as well not participate in the process.

I’m coming from where you are coming from then. I don’t vote parties. I only vote to prevent an evil. I vote to stop the abortion industry. If a republican is not pro-life I don’t vote.
I never vote pro-choice candidates. Never. And that has meant that I never vote democrat. They are non-existent in my state. I also believe that the democratic party is the engine of the entire industry.

People might call me stupid. Might blame for being a single voter issue, etc etc…

At this point I don’t care. I only respond to God. Life is too short and I believe that we will all be asked about this evil we are experiencing now. Abortion that is. And I wouldn’t want to be seated in judgment and be asked why I supported a candidate who supported abortion. Why did I participate in the killing. See for God to condone killing is the same as killing. I don’t remember which Saint said that but I heard it before.

I firmly believe that we are being tested with this issue. I would not want have to explain to God why I supported, in any way, the killing of His own creation.

I also don’t want people to fall into sin anymore and I believe every time an abortion is performed many enter mortal sin.

So if I know a candidate is pro-choice then I don’t vote for him/her regardless of party.
I have to say though that I never find one candidate who is pro-life in the democrat side. And I find that the republicans have done way more to restrict and even ban some aspects of abortion at the state level and national level. i.e. partial birth abortion.

For me it is now a war to eliminate the butchery of abortion. ALL other issues are secondary.

People can call me an extremist all they want, I could care less. Like I said I only respond to God.

 

[Crossbones]

If you go back and read this thread you will see lots of Democrat catholics rationalizing their votes for Democrats by saying, “Bush was bad.” Or “Palin was stupid.” etc. If you have not engaged in that then great - I haven’t read all of your posts. Was it all Bush’s fault for Obama’s win in 2008? No. But did he pursue policies (domestic) that helped conservatives be skeptical of Republicans? Yes. Was the country a bit tired of 8 years of Republicans? Yes. (same thing happened after Clinton). Bush basically spent most of his political capital on two wars which I think he genuinely thought was the right thing to do and best for the security of the country. (no - it wasn’t motivated by “war for oil” or to line the pockets of Halliburton, etc.). Hindsight is 20/20. I was for the war at first. I believed Clinton, the Democrats, Bush, Colin Powell, much of the rest of the world community who all believed that Saddham Hussein had WMD’s and would use them. The war happened. And the Afghan war too. I think we can learn a lesson about nation-building and the difficulties therein. Its hard enough for the govt. to run things here, let alone build another country up from the rubble with no democratic tradition. It worked in Japan, but they weren’t Islamic divided by two sects.

But this thread is about the Democrats. They are not worthy of the votes of Catholics as they have made a mockery of Catholic moral teaching on the sanctity of life.

Ishii

Well, Bush was that bad. He didn’t spend any political capital on the first war; it was the second war. And the second war was really bad. And the Pope was saying so and why the good Catholics on this forum, who can quote any bishop so elegantly on abortion seemed totally ignorant of the Pope’s calls for peace somehow didn’t know about this suggests that maybe party is more important to them than religion. But instead of spending his political capital to enhance the pro-life movement, he spent it on a war that the Pope was against. Now, after he had no political capital, even after he won the 2004 election, he tried to spend it. On pro-life issues? Nope. On reforming social security. For the worse. Of course, the capital was gone.

So, he didn’t really attempt to do much for pro-life issues. Hopefully, the Supreme Court justices will prove out to be solid. We’ll have to wait and see.

The point is (and it is really lost to this audience) that until the Republicans treat pro-life issues with the urgency they deserve and act a little more compassionate or Catholic or Christian or whatever, they are looking at an uphill battle to win the Presidency. If voters vote on the priorities of the candidates and not their individual priorities, they can be excused for taking a pass on using abortion as a deciding issue from about, umm, 1972 to 2010. Finally, the Republicans are showing signs of getting their act together. Of course, that’s what happens when you lose as much as they have. Maybe they realize that there aren’t enough bankers to get them elected.

And how much have the people in their forum that slam anyone who suggests that maybe not every single thing that the Democrats do is wrong and not every single thing a Republican does is right, actually hold the feet of the Republican politicians to the fire. How many write letters to their Congressmen or state legislatures? Or do you vote for the Republican and then give yourself a pass even though NOTHING happens because you got the tax cuts that you thought were a good idea. Like I said before, I didn’t think a Romney presidency would result in a change in abortion, but I did know I would get a tax cut.

 

[Crossbones]

I’m coming from where you are coming from then. I don’t vote parties. I only vote to prevent an evil. I vote to stop the abortion industry. If a republican is not pro-life I don’t vote.
I never vote pro-choice candidates. Never. And that has meant that I never vote democrat. They are non-existent in my state. I also believe that the democratic party is the engine of the entire industry.

People might call me stupid. Might blame for being a single voter issue, etc etc…

At this point I don’t care. I only respond to God. Life is too short and I believe that we will all be asked about this evil we are experiencing now. Abortion that is. And I wouldn’t want to be seated in judgment and be asked why I supported a candidate who supported abortion. Why did I participate in the killing. See for God to condone killing is the same as killing. I don’t remember which Saint said that but I heard it before.

I firmly believe that we are being tested with this issue. I would not want have to explain to God why I supported, in any way, the killing of His own creation.

I also don’t want people to fall into sin anymore and I believe every time an abortion is performed many enter mortal sin.

So if I know a candidate is pro-choice then I don’t vote for him/her regardless of party.
I have to say though that I never find one candidate who is pro-life in the democrat side. And I find that the republicans have done way more to restrict and even ban some aspects of abortion at the state level and national level. i.e. partial birth abortion.

For me it is now a war to eliminate the butchery of abortion. ALL other issues are secondary.

People can call me an extremist all they want, I could care less. Like I said I only respond to God.

So, in this thread, you accused me of being pro-choice, anti traditional marriage and for euthanasia because I’ve articulated a view that the Republicans must acknowledge previous mistakes and be more in line with the Church teaching on all issues to win the presidency.

No wonder we keep losing. Has it occurred to you that your abrasive attitude is a turn-off? That you can’t read my posts well enough to even remotely understand my point without insulting me is a good way to turn people against your side, and since, unfortunately for me, your side is my side, you are hurting my cause.

 

[Milasol]

So, in this thread, you accused me of being pro-choice, anti traditional marriage and for euthanasia because I’ve articulated a view that the Republicans must acknowledge previous mistakes and be more in line with the Church teaching on all issues to win the presidency.

No wonder we keep losing. Has it occurred to you that your abrasive attitude is a turn-off? That you can’t read my posts well enough to even remotely understand my point without insulting me is a good way to turn people against your side, and since, unfortunately for me, your side is my side, you are hurting my cause.

WHAT?

Where have I accused you?

Just because you don’t like what I say or don’t agree it doesn’t mean I am insulting you. In fact, it is you now who is insulting me.

And before you make assumptions read what I wrote. I say that I vote pro-life. And that I think the democratic party is the engine of the abortion industry. I never said that I didn’t think the republican party didn’t do mistakes. See who you are assuming? In fact, I said the contrary. Iraq, appeasement, etc. So don’t be putting words in my mouth just because you don’t like what I believe.

In fact, I even stated that if a republican was not pro-life I would not vote for him.

So quit accusing me of insulting you. I have never done such things.

 

[Crossbones]

WHAT?

Where have I accused you?

Just because you don’t like what I say or don’t agree it doesn’t mean I am insulting you. In fact, it is you now who is insulting me.

And before you make assumptions read what I wrote. I say that I vote pro-life. And that I think the democratic party is the engine of the abortion industry. I never said that I didn’t think the republican party didn’t do mistakes. See who you are assuming? In fact, I said the contrary. Iraq, appeasement, etc. So don’t be putting words in my mouth just because you don’t like what I believe.

In fact, I even stated that if a republican was not pro-life I would not vote for him.

So quit accusing me of insulting you. I have never done such things.

You said “Now try to also side with him when it comes to abortion, euthanasia, same sex unions…” I’m sorry, that wasn’t an accusation? That wasn’t an insult? Sure, it wasn’t.

And how exactly am I insulting you? Because I say you are hurting the cause when you are hurting the cause. I like what you believe, but your approach has a lot of room for improvement.

 

[Lapey]

Now, here I have thoughtful conversations with you and you accuse me of being a Bush basher. Are you missing the point that Bush’s ‘badness’ is what got President Obama elected and it wasn’t the ‘badness’ of President Bush being too pro-life? Everyone prioritizes their votes differently and Bush’s ‘badness’ cost Republicans votes. If the Republicans followed all the teachings of the Church more closely, they probably wouldn’t have lost in 2008 or 2012.

If Catholic & Democrat voters would understand and follow the teachings of the Church there would be almost no Democrats in office.

 

[Lapey]

This thread has been derailed again. Get back on track; this is about voting Democrat. Yes or No. Why or Why Not. That’s it.

What happened to Al and the gang, you folks left the conversation? Why is that? Still looking for a quote from a bishop, any bishop, to substantiate the interpretations of the documents I guess.

 

[ringil]

This thread has been derailed again. Get back on track; this is about voting Democrat. Yes or No. Why or Why Not. That’s it.

What happened to Al and the gang, you folks left the conversation? Why is that? Still looking for a quote from a bishop, any bishop, to substantiate the interpretations of the documents I guess.

You cannot vote for a candidate because they are Pro-Choice but you may in-spite of that stance if your conscience tells you that proportionally the Pro-Choice Candidate is the batter choice.

For me and for many- voting for a Democrat can be a valid option.

 

[Lapey]

You cannot vote for a candidate because they are Pro-Choice but you may in-spite of that stance if your conscience tells you that proportionally the Pro-Choice Candidate is the batter choice.

For me and for many- voting for a Democrat can be a valid option.

Alright, I can live with that…what are the proportionate reasons and can you quote any document or Bishop or higher that states that?

 

[ringil]

Alright, I can live with that…what are the proportionate reasons and can you quote any document or Bishop or higher that states that?

My proportionate reasons are usually every other issue except Abortion, and same sex-marriage, as I disagree with nearly every stance taken by a politician (at least a hard-line one) identified as Conservative.

I don’t know what kind of document you would be looking for, or if it is a realistic thought that such a document would address such a specific issue.

My question is- Are you actually trying to discover an answer to your question or are you actually seeking to debate and “prove” that Catholics cannot vote for a Democratic Candidate.

In other words- do you believe that a Catholic should not vote for a Democratic candidate?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Wow. This is something. A lot of conspiracy theory here, when there are more reasonable explanations for most of this.

1. You brought up Aziz and the only reason to bring him up is to suggest that he was unduly influencing the Pope. There is no other reason to bring him up. So, that was the implication.I didn’t say that. Obviously, his purpose was to induce the Pope to counsel peace with Saddam. Maybe Aziz had some information that was worthwhile. Nobody knows.
2. What the corruption of the UN have to do with the attack on Iraq? If the goal was to get people in there to inspect for WMD, then there isn’t much doubt in my mind that Saddam was ready. Unlike President Clinton, President GW Bush wanted the war. As I said before, the Pope (and others) placed their hopes on UN action. But it was misplaced due to the UN corrupation.
3. The Pope’s lack of post-invasion condemnations is not an indication that he became a supporter. He continued to ask his followers to pray for peace. He publicly declined to meet with Secretary of State Rice. Do you really think he was suddenly on board? So, you say you don’t know and I don’t know. I’m pretty sure I know. You just don’t like the answer.You certainly don’t know.
4. Kim Jong Il was a bad guy, too. So, we should have taken him down. Kim Jong Un is a bad guy. So we should take him down. You’re getting ready right now to invade North Korea, right? That’s the job of the US: to take down bad guys. That’s your view on foreign policy? Ok, then. Well, that’s what’s gotten us into mess after mess for the last 70 years. As Lapey said, war begets war.This is just silly. Taking down one bad guy does not mean one ought to attempt to take down all bad guys.

1. How long were you planning on staying in Iraq? 10 years. Not enough apparently. 20 years. Probably still not enough. But when I say you, I don’t really mean ‘you’, right? You’re not in Iraq. You mean, let’s send our precious young people to ‘ensure’ the peace.
   How long have we been in Germany? How long will we stay there? We have been there 70 years. Nobody knows how long we will remain. Success is not measured in years, but by accomplishment of objectives.
   This is the kind of foreign policy that has resulted in a Democratic President and this is the kind of foreign policy that is preventing real inroads to be made on life issues. This is why it was so easy for President Obama to defeat Senator McCain and Governor Romney. He has gotten to run against the ridiculous 'shoot ‘em up’ foreign policy of President GW Bush. And if the Republican leadership makes these kind of arguments in 2016, I dread for that election.

I would be careful about touting Obama for not having a “shoot em up” policy. He certainly shot em up in Libya in order to help the jihadis. He’s shooting em up in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, and he’s going to do a lot more of the former. The reality is, of course, that the U.S. had made the peace in Iraq, supported by all factions there except the foreign jihadis. Had McCain been elected, we wouldn’t be looking at ISIS killing everybody it doesn’t like and threatening to take over half the Middle EAst.

Obama is responsible for ISIS’ actions in Iraq. No mistake about that.

And with the Democrats in power, there’s no possibility of life issues being served because they are against them.

 

[Dawnia]

The point is (and it is really lost to this audience) that until the Republicans treat pro-life issues with the urgency they deserve and act a little more compassionate or Catholic or Christian or whatever, they are looking at an uphill battle to win the Presidency. If voters vote on the priorities of the candidates and not their individual priorities, they can be excused for taking a pass on using abortion as a deciding issue from about, umm, 1972 to 2010. Finally, the Republicans are showing signs of getting their act together. Of course, that’s what happens when you lose as much as they have. Maybe they realize that there aren’t enough bankers to get them elected.

I find this statement hilarious. The Republicans hold the majority of the House, almost 1/2 of the Senate, 30 of 50 state Governors and the majority in 27 of 50 state legislatures. It has also only been 2 Presidential elections since there was a Republican President. Nationwide, the Repubs have more politicians in office than Dems. That doesn’t sound like losing to me.