Can Catholics Vote Democrat?

  • Thread starter Thread starter adawgj
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Crossbones said:
So he was lying?
Click to expand...
Again, this is what an organization that has performed millions of abortions said about Romney:
Mitt Romney is misleading the public about his intention to restrict safe and legal abortion. Last week, Mitt Romney was dishonest about his tax plan and his Medicare plan, and today he’s being dishonest about his intention to end access to safe and legal abortion. Mitt Romney has been crystal clear that if he’s elected President, he will work to overturn Roe v. Wade. Mitt Romney’s views on women’s health are far outside the mainstream, and that’s why he’s trying to hide them in the last weeks until the election.”
Click to expand...
“Let’s be clear: Mitt Romney wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, end federal funding for Planned Parenthood preventive services, end insurance coverage for birth control, and repeal health protections for women.”
Click to expand...
plannedparenthoodaction.org/elections-politics/newsroom/press-releases/statement-romney-misleading-public-about-his-abortion-stance/
Click to expand...
Are you saying Planned Parenthood is lying?
 
Path_Finder said:
No.

He ran 2 times, 2008 and 2012 on a pro-life platform. I don’t see why we are going into the past.

Are we saying no one ever changes their mind?

Also, it seems a bit out of proportion to emphasize one Massachusetts governor in discussing the pro-life issue. There is no Presidential election this year.
Click to expand...
No, I’m not saying no one ever changes his mind. I find it suspicious when policy positions change in such a way that it seems politically expedient and I pointed out that other prominent Republicans found it suspicious as well.

Governor Romney was the Republican nominee in the last presidential election, so he is the most recent standard bearer for the party. It makes sense that we examine his views closely as it would be presumably representative of the party’s views, as well as examining the record of President GW Bush as how the Republican party would govern. Similarly, President Obama would be representative the Democrat party’s views and how they would govern.
 
Crossbones said:
No, I’m not saying no one ever changes his mind. I find it suspicious when policy positions change in such a way that it seems politically expedient and I pointed out that other prominent Republicans found it suspicious as well.

Governor Romney was the Republican nominee in the last presidential election, so he is the most recent standard bearer for the party. It makes sense that we examine his views closely as it would be presumably representative of the party’s views, as well as examining the record of President GW Bush as how the Republican party would govern. Similarly, President Obama would be representative the Democrat party’s views and how they would govern.
Click to expand...
I thought party platforms were what a candidate represented.
 
Crossbones said:
No, I’m not saying no one ever changes his mind. I find it suspicious when policy positions change in such a way that it seems politically expedient and I pointed out that other prominent Republicans found it suspicious as well.

Governor Romney was the Republican nominee in the last presidential election, so he is the most recent standard bearer for the party. It makes sense that we examine his views closely as it would be presumably representative of the party’s views, as well as examining the record of President GW Bush as how the Republican party would govern. Similarly, President Obama would be representative the Democrat party’s views and how they would govern.
Click to expand...
So you voted for McCain? or was he lying too?
 
Crossbones said:
Yep. I am saying Planned Parenthood was lying.
Click to expand...
So Planned Parenthood, receives over 400 million dollars a year of Federal Funding and spent millions telling people that Romney-Ryan wanted to overturn Roe V. Wade and defund Planned Parenthood which the Republicans have attempted Nationally and done effectively in individual states but we are asserting Planned Parenthood is lying.

Are we do dismiss the numerous endorsements by pro-life organizations too?

President of the Massachusetts Citizens for Life:
Since being elected governor, Mitt Romney has had a consistent commitment to the culture of life. As governor, he worked closely with Massachusetts Citizens for Life. Misguided attempts to blame Mitt Romney for the fact that state-funded health care in Massachusetts funds abortion ignore the facts. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled in 1981 that the Massachusetts Constitution requires the funding of abortion. This decision forces Massachusetts to fund abortion to the same extent it funds other medical procedures. A 1986 attempt to overturn the court ruling with a Constitutional Amendment failed. Obviously, in providing health coverage, the governor and the legislature were bound by this decision.”- Anne Fox
Click to expand...
aboutmittromney.com/pro-life-endorsements.htm

Other endorsements out of Massachusetts as well. I note, Anne Fox states Governor Romney’s record is distorted.
 
Path_Finder said:
So Planned Parenthood, receives over 400 million dollars a year of Federal Funding and spent millions telling people that Romney-Ryan wanted to overturn Roe V. Wade and defund Planned Parenthood which the Republicans have attempted Nationally and done effectively in individual states but we are asserting Planned Parenthood is lying.
Click to expand...
So you believe the words from an organization that supports intrinsic evils and murders babies?
 
estesbob said:
So you voted for McCain? or was he lying too?
Click to expand...
Like President GW Bush, Senator McCain did not support a ‘litmus test’ for Supreme Court Justices. Here’s what he said during a debate with then Senator Obama.

McCAIN: I would never, and have never in all the years I’ve been there, imposed a litmus test on any nominee to the Court. That’s not appropriate to do.
Q: But you don’t want Roe v. Wade to be overturned?
McCAIN: I thought it was a bad decision. I think that decision should rest in the hands of the states. I’m a federalist. And I believe strongly that we should have nominees to the Supreme Court based on their qualifications rather than any litmus test. They should be judged on their qualifications. I will find the best people in America who have a history of strict adherence to the Constitution. And not legislating from the bench.
Q: Even if it was someone who had a history of being for abortion rights?
McCAIN: I would consider anyone on their qualifications. Someone who has supported Roe v. Wade, that would be part of those qualifications. But I certainly would not impose any litmus test
 
Lapey said:
I am that “other contributor”…🙂

Two questions for you if you don’t mind.
  1. Where does the child’s right to life come from, by what authority does the child have life?
  2. Where does the mother’s right to end that life come from, by what authority does the mother have a right to end the life of the child?
Click to expand...
Sounds like the answer you want is that only God has authority over human life and death. OK - but God doesn’t prevent people from killing each other, does he? He lets them murder and then punishes them later for it in Hell.

I’m OK leaving it in God’s hands. What I do not want is for the state to play God.
 
estesbob said:
1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.
**
1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.
**
1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions,* assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.*

1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the quote, but can you be more specific? I honestly don’t get the message you are trying to send. If you believe I am in error, by all means defend you position. That is what apologetics is all about - right?
 
stinkcat_14 said:
I wouldn’t say I straddle a fence, since both republicans and democrats are both way to liberal for me. But I do distinguish between political preferences and Church teaching.
Click to expand...
You have taken posters to task to say that Republicans are for smaller government. How do you see the Tea Party?
 
Here’s the thing. In several states, there is such a large percentage of Catholics that they could tip the political system anyway they wanted. However, google the following. Percent of catholics that are pro choice. Percent of Catholics that vote democrat party.

People see it differently and that’s just the way it is. I wouldn’t vote for someone that supports abortion. That doesn’t seem to be a problem for many on this forum. I’m not sure how they can do that but they do. Many of you are here arguing why it’s better to vote for someone that changed his mind and is now pro-life than someone that is honestly in favor of killing children. You’re wasting your time. Some people have decided that abortion is okay even if it is against their supposed religious beliefs. Not a lot you can do. Pray for them.
 
Luke6_37 said:
Sounds like the answer you want is that only God has authority over human life and death. OK - but God doesn’t prevent people from killing each other, does he? He lets them murder and then punishes them later for it in Hell.

I’m OK leaving it in God’s hands. What I do not want is for the state to play God.
Click to expand...
You can’t be serious.
 
Crossbones said:
Governor Mitt Romney was pro-abortion. In a 2002 debate when he was running, he said “I will preserve and protect a woman’s right to choose and am devoted and dedicated to honoring my word in that regard.”

Senator Harry Reid is pro-abortion.
Click to expand...
Crossbones said:
Some believed that, but I was just pointing out in regards to Ishii’s comment that there have been pro-abortion Mormons elected.
Click to expand...
Crossbones said:
Ask Ishii. He brought it up.
Click to expand...
I stand behind my comments, Crossbones. What has the Mormon church done to advance the cause of abortion compared to the Democrat party? There is no comparison. It has since been shown that the Mormon church is NOT pro-abortion.

I find that Democrat Catholics tend to focus on the peripheral issues, the exceptions, etc. to divert attention away from the issues they clearly do not want to discuss. If I was a Catholic Democrat, I wouldn’t want to discuss abortion either. If I was a Democrat catholic I’d be trying to bring up bogus charges against the Mormon church too - in an effort to avoid looking at my own party.

Ishii
 
Crossbones said:
Well, Speaker Gingrich and Senator Santorum certainly questioned them in this debate (full transcript at lifenews.com/2012/01/20/republicans-spar-over-abortion-issues-in-gop-debate/)

GINGRICH: After he became pro-life, Romneycare does pay for tax-paid abortions. Romneycare has written into it Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion provider in the country, by name. Does not have any right to life group written into it.

He did appoint pro-abortion judges. And a branch of the government which included his appointees did agree to fund an abortion clinic for Planned Parenthood. All that occurred after he had become pro-life.

Now, those are all facts which we validated, and it seems to me that’s a legitimate part of the campaign, is to say, “OK, if you’re genuinely pro-life, how come these things are occurring?

SANTORUM: I just want to make one point. And a lot of legislatures here — legislators here in the room and they — and they know this to be the truth, that if you write a piece of legislation and you — and you say medical care and you do not specifically mention that abortion is not covered, we know from every court decision at the state and federal levels that the federal courts and state courts will require it.

That is someone (sic) every governor knows, every state legislator knows. And so when Governor Romney did not put that in the bill, you can’t say, “Oh, gee, surprise, the court made us cover abortions.” He knew very well that the court would make them cover abortions. That’s number one.

Number two…

(APPLAUSE)

Number — number two, what we’re talking about here is someone who’s not going to just check the boxes and say, “Yes, I’m pro-life.”

We’ve got a lot of folks who just whisper into the microphone that they’re pro-life, and then you have other people who go out and fight the battle and defend life and come out of the trenches and actually work to make sure that the dignity of every human life, innocent human life in this country is protected.

And I’ve done that.
Click to expand...
A couple of primary opponents accuse their rival for the nomination of not being pro-life! Imagine! Certainly both Santorum and Gingrich endorsed Romney for president in 2012. Which running mate did Romney pick? Who did Romney pick to advise him on supreme court nominees? (Robert Bork). The truth is, NARAL, Planned Parenthood, pro-abortion secular liberals, Obama, et al were very, very afraid of the prospect of Mitt Romney choosing the supreme court justices. As were many Democrat catholics apparently. If I was a Democrat catholic I would be concerned about the company I was keeping.

Ishii
 
saintjohnxxiii said:
You have taken posters to task to say that Republicans are for smaller government. How do you see the Tea Party?
Click to expand...
The problem is that the tea party is not a monolithic group but a bunch of smaller groups which for the most part unrelated. If they claim to be for smaller government but don’t want to touch ss and Medicare then they wouldn’t have much credibility with me.
 
Crossbones said:
Nope, covered that ground already. Don’t think platforms are worth the paper they are written on. Go back about 200 posts.
Click to expand...
No reason to go back 200 posts and somehow your judging what is in people’s hearts and your opinion trumps facts.

President of the Massachusetts Citizens for Life:
Since being elected governor, Mitt Romney has had a consistent commitment to the culture of life. As governor, he worked closely with Massachusetts Citizens for Life. Misguided attempts to blame Mitt Romney for the fact that state-funded health care in Massachusetts funds abortion ignore the facts. The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled in 1981 that the Massachusetts Constitution requires the funding of abortion. This decision forces Massachusetts to fund abortion to the same extent it funds other medical procedures. A 1986 attempt to overturn the court ruling with a Constitutional Amendment failed. Obviously, in providing health coverage, the governor and the legislature were bound by this decision.”- Anne Fox
Click to expand...
I think this dispels the myth now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top