Can Christians fully practice their beliefs today?

[Rozellelily]

It seems that even in “western country” it is becoming hard to be openly Christian because some Christian values do not match the “liberal social” views of the majority in the country.
For example I live in Australia and here a football player named Folau has been suspended of his millions dollars contract for putting a quote from the Bible on his own Instagram page that homosexuals etc would go to hell.

The code is wanting him to be sacked because they believe it is homophobia.
Personally I don’t believe anyone can say who will or wont go to hell etc as only god knows heart/person,but shouldn’t he be entitled to express his religious belief publicly on his own page?

He didn’t directly insult someone or call them something derogatory he simply quoted bible so why they so affected when most of them don’t believe in hell etc anyway because religion-especially Christianity-is so unpopular here.

Clearly it’s nowhere to the level of live in Iraq etc,but it seems even here people have to hide their beliefs or water them down etc to remain liked or not be labeled as bigot etc…

To me it seems this is a form of discrimination,the very thing they claim to hate.Why would they want/expect all footballers to share the same views in life etc like cookie cutter?

 

[Melbourne]

I live in Australia as well and it is becoming increasingly difficult to be a Christian (more certainly a Catholic) as the extreme Left movement here pushes our Nation closer towards Muslims. I believe Catholaphobia exists extensively unfortunately, but that doesn’t make me ashamed to be Catholic nor will it force me to hide from it.

The football player you mentioned was just another scapegoat used by the Left to strengthen their resolve and contribute to convincing Australia that being Christian is a “bad thing to be”

It is tough times for us in this Sodom and Gomorrah world we live in, but God has seen this before and we need to continue our Faith without doubt.

 

[Rozellelily]

@catholicliving
And that’s the other thing.The media coverage here were/are very much in support of the NZ prime ministers response to the Christchurch shooting.I mean they should be because her response was compassionate,caring and good but I mean specifically her decision to wear the Muslim hijab.
I totally understand wearing it if it was when going to their mosque-their place of prayer- out of respect,but from my understanding she was also wearing it in other circumstances such as outside or meeting with the Muslim community in a community room?
Isnt this a bit misguided attempt of solidarity but the Australian media thinks it’s great.
Perhaps it’s wrong of me but I can’t help feeling not 100 % confident whether she would have publicly worn a cross if the target was a church,or a turban if the target was a Sikh temple etc…
I want to clarify that I have nothing against Muslims and love them and I think it’s awful what happened in NZ but my concern is more the Australian media bias.Ie:that they are reporting positively on one religion and negatively on another doesn’t seem balanced and fair.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

In a sense, you can fully practice Christianity in any time and in any place, but there may be unpleasant consequences.
In that case, you have some decisions to make.

Is it comfortable to practice Christianity today?
In the US, I find the answer to be all over the board. Our popular entertainment mostly mocks at Christianity, but then there will be pockets here and there of Christian worldview. People in my own parish were celebrating the legalization of a gay marriage on their Facebook pages, but then there were other people in my parish who did not find it to be anything to celebrate.
I work with a lot of immigrants from the Caribbean and Africa who openly proclaim Jesus Christ and their moral code is very conservative and they sing hymns openly while they work and don’t give a crap what ANYBODY thinks. Nobody’s says anything to them, either.

So, it’s a mixed bag.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t have a problem practicing my Christianity in USA. I am permitted to go to Mass, to pray, to go to church, to read Christian literature, to protest outside the PP clinic, to pray on the street (the police even send officers to help when it’s a big prayer rally or procession), to have Catholic items in my home etc and nobody bothers me or tries to get me fired. There have been countries in the world. Including USA in the past, where Catholics could not do some or all of these things. So I am thankful and blessed.

Regarding a person putting on their social media that some group is going to hell: I note that first of all, we have no idea who God sends to Hell, so announcing that someone is going there is not Catholic teaching. You can say that such-and-such behavior is grave matter sin and creates a risk of Hell, but that’s all. Second, posting things to social media is not “practicing your beliefs” as there is nothing in the Catechism saying we should be making tweets (or taking out newspaper ads or putting signs on our front lawn etc) calling others out on sin as part of our Catholic practice. Most of the priests I have met would advise that I should just stay off social media to be honest. And Jesus cautioned us in Scripture about judging others and calling our brethren out on sin instead of dealing with our own sins. It’s also debatable whether someone posting a statement that a whole group of people are hell bound is truly acting Christian and loving his neighbor. And if he is a public figure who agreed to a certain code of conduct for his work, then it’s a bit immature to accept the contract and then complain about what he agreed to.

 

[Shasta-Rose]

We are in the post-Christian secular age, which is not neutral toward Christians. We think, Well, just laugh at us and call us wrong and let us go on our misguided way. But, no, in this age we are looked at as the target.

And the secularists get away with it because of the way the laws (in America the Constitution) are interpreted now. Practically everybody is a “protected minority.” You can list a lot of them yourselves. And the only not protected group? If you’re a Christian, you are probably in it.

Identity politics. Selective enforcement. However you want to think about it, it has crept in bit by bit, and it’s anti-Christian. So, no, in my opinion you are not paranoid.

 

[redbetta]

We might be nearing a time when Christians will need to rely on patronizing one another to make ends meat. Another poster already talks about how hard her daughter has it in the arts as a practicing and orthodox Catholic. This can also easily happen in healthcare and education.

 

[Rozellelily]

I should have clarified that the footballer mentioned is not a Catholic but a different Christian denomination.
Personally I think he’s misguided to quote who will go to hell etc but at the same time I think he should be free to state this on his own Instagram page or blog if he believes this is what God says (even if misguided) without repercussions/persecution etc.

To me there’s a difference between a religious belief vs outright insulting someone by calling them a derogatory name for gay people etc.
If people (whether Christian or Muslim or otherwise etc) can’t state their beliefs without “punishment” then this to me is discrimination.
The reality is many Christians and Muslims share his belief (in the broad sense) but don’t state it vocally.

Interestingly a gay politician Tim Wilson has out of all people defended Folau by stating that he believes the footballer should not be sacked because he didn’t cross the line and the code should welcome people of different beliefs.

Regarding code of conduct that’s a difficult area because on one hand I don’t believe they should be allowed to force players to sign things agreeing to not say things/suppress their religious beliefs (even if offensive to some or misguided) but on the other hand they are paid ridiculous amounts of money which I’m not a fan of either.
Realistically so many footy players have some poor behaviour when it comes to women or drugs etc anyway that if they were all sacked for breaches of conduct I’m not sure there would be many left.

Also,who should be the persons to decide what constitutes good code of conduct and what doesn’t?
Eg:why should a Christian player who posts about gay people going to hell contract be terminated for causing offense but for eg a Muslim player who won’t shake hands with women not have his terminated even though he may have caused offense to some women and it’s just accepted that this behaviour is ok because it’s part of their religion?

 

[Rozellelily]

I could imagine it could be particularly hard for Christian students studying medicine because here the medical student lobby groups and doctor lobby groups like AMA were all rallying in support of gay marriage etc.

 

[Sbee0]

I honestly don’t think it’s all that different today than it was 25 years ago. Christianity was looked down on by secular society back then as much as it is today. Society is very politically correct now but it was then too.

 

[Mary888]

I don’t see how putting challenging Bible on Instagram is “living the Christian faith”.and not being able.to.do so is “not being able.to practice Christianity fully”. It is like arguing from.a.distance or from up close. The Bible.says those who saw wind shall rip.a tornado or something like that. Don’t challenge people if you don’t like sustaining an argument.
LGBTQ movement is unfair, in many ways, but the example you give is just someone being admonished for venting off online.

 

[redbetta]

It’s not just that. Refusing to support abortion, euthanasia, and assisted suicide along with refusing support so-called “gender affirmation” surgery could essentially close-off the health field to Christians and other people with similar beliefs entirely.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I should have clarified that the footballer mentioned is not a Catholic but a different Christian denomination.

I can only answer from a Catholic teaching and Catholic practice standpoint. I’m not going to advocate for some sola scriptura guy’s right to post Bible verses out of context when it conflicts with both Catholic teaching and with what priests, and I don’t mean Fr. Martin, I mean the Franciscans in habits with whom I last had this discussion, would reasonably suggest in this situation.

I think being kind, using common sense, and minimizing the amount of pot stirring you do on social media goes a long way, especially since social media is owned by a private company who are motivated by the wish to make money and avoid government regulation, not motivated by the wish to help you disseminate your ideas.

Finally, I hope this player is just as assiduous in calling out his teammates when they fornicate, swear, overindulge in gambling and drinking, and become prideful. I also hope he is spending his spare time being good to his family and helping the poor, both of which things would be practicing Christianity much more than a post.

 

[Rozellelily]

But don’t you think that people should have freedom to practice their religious beliefs regardless if right,wrong or misguided or offensive etc?
It might be argued that it’s irresponsible for people to state things without thinking of the potential consequence on others but I don’t think they should be punished/persecuted for it.
For example if a Muslim was to quote on their own Insta from their quran or teachings that men shouldn’t shake hands with women I wouldn’t like it or agree but I still defend his free speech to write it or opinion it.

 

[Bluebright]

Well no one said it was going to be easy. It is not meant to be, it’s the way of the cross. Jesus warned us that when we followed him we would be hated, as he was. We are not of this world, as he was not. I think that Christians know this, even if it is tough to remember. That’s why we must stand up for each other. We are all outcasts in the world, which does not know us, does not accept us and does not love us. We should not really be surprised. It did not love, know or accept Jesus either and he warned us it would be so. We must try to unite ourselves to his suffering that way and accept this hatred with great honour for it is the same hatred that was given to our Lord and God and if it is good enough for him it is certainly good enough for us. I am going to live my faith out in the open and if I am hated for it, so be it.

 

[Mary888]

But don’t you think that people should have freedom to practice their religious beliefs regardless if right,wrong or misguided or offensive etc?

Yes I do, but see Jesus said this is not what is going to happen to those who follow Him. So why do trust our modern principles more than God’s prophecy for us? People are being killed.for.believing Christ is God in the Middle.East and Africa. I really can’t balance this and the problem of a Christian being banned on some site as tribulations of the same kind even if they do have something in common I agree to that.
And IS Muslims are said to actively execute gay people in Syria and if a Muslim posted something equally definitive on Instagram as the Christian did I am certain Instagram would delete it too. It’s not just a Christian thing to threaten gay people.

 

[Rozellelily]

Finally, I hope this player is just as assiduous in calling out his teammates when they fornicate, swear, overindulge in gambling and drinking, and become prideful

That was my thought too.
He did have some other posts about people not living the truth by being Christian but at the same time going out to nightclubs and finding guys/girls to sleep with so he did mentioned “fornication” and drinking.
Generally though I think he is judging without realizing and I think his faith isn’t fully formed and is a bit misguided so if he is “guilty” of anything it is that.Obviously that doesn’t help the image of Christians in the “worlds eyes” but I still don’t think someone should be discriminated against for their religious beliefs (even if misguided).

The reality is Australia is very pro gay marriage etc and the football codes all support this and the NRL (another code) even had Macklemore come from US and sing the song One love to show their “universal” support of gay relationships so any player who doesn’t support it seen as an “outlier” or bigot of sorts.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

But don’t you think that people should have freedom to practice their religious beliefs regardless if right,wrong or misguided or offensive etc?

By that reasoning, I should be letting voodoo practitioners and other various religions do ritual animal sacrifice in my yard and throw the blood around. I should also be letting the next Jim Jones set up a little Jonestown in my neighborhood and if everybody wants to commit mass suicide there then that should be perfectly okay because they’re just practicing their religious beliefs.

Freedom to believe and speak is one thing. Freedom to just do any practice you like is not and is never going to be permissable.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Okay, so it sounds like maybe he is on the right track, but social media may also not be the best place for him to be evangelizing because he is not just speaking personally for himself, he is representing an entire team.

This is the problem people have when they go to work for some employer. There is what they do privately in their off hours and then there are situations where they are repping their employer. When you are a well-known player for a sports team, you are publicly repping the team pretty much all the time. This is the deal you make when you sign on the dotted line and take their money.

If it’s that important to you that you speak out about religion, that you can’t limit your social media posts in accordance with whatever the social media policy is that you agreed to in your contract (and I’m sure there is one), then get out of the sports business and go be an evangelist. Then you can say what you want, and if Twitter or whatever blocks you, find another outlet or start your own Lifesite news.

 

[Rozellelily]

Sorry,I should clarify it isn’t that Instagram had banned him or his post.The post and his account are still public.
I probably wouldn’t have agreed with that either but at least that might have made some sense as it’s their website to do what they like.
The issue for the footballer Israel Folau isn’t from Instagram but it’s rather from the executives who run the rugby football code that he plays in.They are wanting to terminate his million dollars contract due to his making this public post they find offensive.
They (executives) have tried to put a “gag order” on him previously to not make such public opinions but for whatever reason he decided to.
I assume because he feels by God that it’s the right think to do to “tell it as it is” (Gods ways according to his belief rightly or wrongly).
He is trying to fight them on the matter but in essence if they win his footy career is over.

While it’s clearly not on the level of persecution of Christians in Africa or the Middle East etc which can be truly awful,it still goes to the heart of free speech/freedom of religious expression.

So much of Christian beliefs is different from the liberal values in this country Eg:abortion,gay marriage,ivf etc

It’s not just a Christian thing to threaten gay people

I definitely agree but a threat would be a different story.Clearly if he said he was “going to sort them out” or something similar that would be a threat.
To me what he wrote isn’t a threat or even an insult.Its someone expressing they believe (rightly or wrongly) gay people will go to hell.

Religious teachings sometimes aren’t comfortable.
If everyone is forced to keep their religion beliefs close to their chest how would anyone then “Evangelise” for others to become Christian?
Some people might say other people might become Christian by seeing Christians “good works” with charity etc but Muslims (and some non religious etc) do those things too.

In my country no one really talks about religion anymore.
It’s very unpopular.
Someone may be a Christian privately or a Muslim and most people are non religious but they all just do it privately and rarely anyone has open discussions about religious beliefs.
Especially catholic is unpopular because of the priest sex abuses.
So how would anyone non religious become Christian is it’s so non talked about or even hostility towards Christianity.