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PatK63
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By the grace of God, there is nothing that can stop me from practicing my faith.
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Mary888
Guest
I see. Small tribulations can turn in big tribulations. I pray to God he and his family are safe and if he does manage to stay in the team God also sends him the strength to bare with it. Because being where you are not wanted is a stress that million of dollars may not compensate for. And many times stress causes problems within one’s family and that is truly sad and painful. It’s also true that financial stress can cause the same thing.
Praying for Israel Folau and his family, that things ease up in his life. Lord have mercy!
Praying for Israel Folau and his family, that things ease up in his life. Lord have mercy!
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Rozellelily
Guest
I understand the point but most people in “first world” countries would agree though that violent acts (such as you described) are wrong and not acceptable.
Expressing beliefs is different.For example on social media like Instagram some people express themselves in way I don’t so much like like boobs/bums out,or tarot cards or psychic,Wicca etc and doesn’t it just has to be tolerated?
Expressing beliefs is different.For example on social media like Instagram some people express themselves in way I don’t so much like like boobs/bums out,or tarot cards or psychic,Wicca etc and doesn’t it just has to be tolerated?
In this footballers case wasn’t it freedom to speak and not freedom to do whatever practice want because clearly if he had of threatened to beat up a gay person the majority of people Christian and non Christian would have strongly condemned this.Freedom to believe and speak is one thing. Freedom to just do any practice you like is not and is never going to be permissable"
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
In USA they have freedom to express themselves in public (like on public property) within reasonable time, place and manner limits, which would mean stuff like you can’t block access to a business or violate general regulations for a town such as noise ordinances and public nudity laws.
The thing to remember is that the freedom of speech laws apply to public areas, like those controlled by the government, and they’re designed to keep you from being punished by the government, like thrown in prison for your beliefs. You don’t have freedom of speech in a privately owned business, mall, Internet forum etc. If you post stuff on Facebook that Facebook decides violates their TOS, they can delete it or ban you, just like this forum does if you come on here and post a bunch of stuff extolling the virtues of satanism and saying the Catholic Church is a false religion. If you go in somebody’s private business and start preaching, they have the right to ask you to leave or have you thrown out.
Freedom of religion laws are mostly designed to allow people to pray and open their own church and attend services and such without being arrested, punished, persecuted, fined or run out of town.
The thing to remember is that the freedom of speech laws apply to public areas, like those controlled by the government, and they’re designed to keep you from being punished by the government, like thrown in prison for your beliefs. You don’t have freedom of speech in a privately owned business, mall, Internet forum etc. If you post stuff on Facebook that Facebook decides violates their TOS, they can delete it or ban you, just like this forum does if you come on here and post a bunch of stuff extolling the virtues of satanism and saying the Catholic Church is a false religion. If you go in somebody’s private business and start preaching, they have the right to ask you to leave or have you thrown out.
Freedom of religion laws are mostly designed to allow people to pray and open their own church and attend services and such without being arrested, punished, persecuted, fined or run out of town.
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Rozellelily
Guest
I don’t think it’s just/fair though that they would request certain players to suppress their religious beliefs and opinions.
In a free society,free of bias,the executives should welcome players with a diverse mix of views and not impose on them to publicly project a cookie cutter view that the majority of the club holds (imo).
It’s ironic because once a time gay men were probably discriminated against to not want them playing on the field and now they want to discriminate against Christians who openly don’t support pro gay issues.
Either way it’s discriminatory.
It’s easy to say a person should just not play but in reality God has made him to be with the statue and skill of a footballer player and not a preacher.
Besides why should all Christian people leave or be forced out of certain forms of employment?
For all the discussions on diversity,diversity should go all ways.
Also it can appear like double standards because I know of some Muslim men in corporate jobs who won’t shake hands with the women in meetings etc and some of the women say they are offended.
The still keep their jobs even though they are supposed to be repping their bosses so why is should it be any different in this case that involves a Christian (apart from the millions of dollars paycheque lol)?
In a free society,free of bias,the executives should welcome players with a diverse mix of views and not impose on them to publicly project a cookie cutter view that the majority of the club holds (imo).
It’s ironic because once a time gay men were probably discriminated against to not want them playing on the field and now they want to discriminate against Christians who openly don’t support pro gay issues.
Either way it’s discriminatory.
It’s easy to say a person should just not play but in reality God has made him to be with the statue and skill of a footballer player and not a preacher.
Besides why should all Christian people leave or be forced out of certain forms of employment?
For all the discussions on diversity,diversity should go all ways.
Also it can appear like double standards because I know of some Muslim men in corporate jobs who won’t shake hands with the women in meetings etc and some of the women say they are offended.
The still keep their jobs even though they are supposed to be repping their bosses so why is should it be any different in this case that involves a Christian (apart from the millions of dollars paycheque lol)?
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Rozellelily
Guest
The interesting thing is that Instagram company themselves must of had no problem with it (or at least it seems as the posts are still visible).
It’s the execs that didn’t like it because of it in their view seeming bigoted.
It’s the execs that didn’t like it because of it in their view seeming bigoted.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Christians are not being “forced out” of employment. We simply do not just express our views on everything Christian or political in every forum all the time when we’re employed. This is partly because we’re at work to work, and partly because in order to get work done we need to coexist with lots of people who have all different beliefs.
For example: I do not go to my company’s annual marketing conference and walk around spouting off Bible verses about sin at everyone I meet there. Likewise, I do not expect this player to be spouting off Bible verses about sin on his social media associated with the team that the public can read. If perhaps he wishes to have an account just for his close friends and family that is not public to the world, and post his thoughts on there, then fine.
Also, as I’ve said above, my religious practice does not require me to go around spouting Bible verses about sin at people, and in fact might even discourage that. Most churches of which I’m aware don’t require their members to do this as part of practicing their faith. If his church requires him to do this, then it’s his problem.
For example: I do not go to my company’s annual marketing conference and walk around spouting off Bible verses about sin at everyone I meet there. Likewise, I do not expect this player to be spouting off Bible verses about sin on his social media associated with the team that the public can read. If perhaps he wishes to have an account just for his close friends and family that is not public to the world, and post his thoughts on there, then fine.
Also, as I’ve said above, my religious practice does not require me to go around spouting Bible verses about sin at people, and in fact might even discourage that. Most churches of which I’m aware don’t require their members to do this as part of practicing their faith. If his church requires him to do this, then it’s his problem.
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tonyh12
Guest
The quote was from the bible, he did nothing wrong as far as I’m concerned may he be blessed on the face of it for his persecution. And may the faithful support him. See it all time even Christians turn against those who have just quoted scripture. I should think there’s more to it that just quoting thought, but the OP said he just quoted scripture so don’t get the ganging up unless I’ve missed something.
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Padres1969
Guest
Is that practicing his religion though? He can hold those views, go to church, believe that all he wants. He ran into trouble when he started broadcasting his homophobia. There’s a distinct difference there. There’s an old maxim from a wise man (Catholic too if you can believe it), “Keep thy religion to thyself.”
Almost no one gets into trouble for practicing their religion, even in modern western society. The problem arises when you rub your religion’s views in other’s faces, particularly when their more conservative, or ultra liberal, from the societal norm.
Almost no one gets into trouble for practicing their religion, even in modern western society. The problem arises when you rub your religion’s views in other’s faces, particularly when their more conservative, or ultra liberal, from the societal norm.
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phil19034
Guest
No, we cannot FULLY practice our beliefs today.
Yes, we can go to mass and thankfully do all the things @Tis_Bearself says below (at least here in the United States).
Also, if I were to wear an exposed Cross, etc; it could potentially hurt me from promotion.
So while we are FAR better off in the USA than other parts of the world, we are not 100% free to practice our beliefs without some consequences.
God bless
Yes, we can go to mass and thankfully do all the things @Tis_Bearself says below (at least here in the United States).
However, we are not really to free to practice our beliefs in the workplace anymore. If I were to make it known how I feel about “same sex marriage” at work, I could potentially lose my job.I don’t have a problem practicing my Christianity in USA. I am permitted to go to Mass, to pray, to go to church, to read Christian literature, to protest outside the PP clinic, to pray on the street (the police even send officers to help when it’s a big prayer rally or procession), to have Catholic items in my home etc and nobody bothers me or tries to get me fired. There have been countries in the world. Including USA in the past, where Catholics could not do some or all of these things. So I am thankful and blessed.
Also, if I were to wear an exposed Cross, etc; it could potentially hurt me from promotion.
So while we are FAR better off in the USA than other parts of the world, we are not 100% free to practice our beliefs without some consequences.
God bless
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Making it known how you feel is not “religious practice”.
There is a difference.
If you were to go around making it known how you feel, then the evangelical who thinks you are going to Hell for being Catholic would be able to run his mouth all day also. Now I know in some workplaces they do, and in other workplaces everyone from Satanists to Catholics might be announcing their beliefs. Legally in US it’s prohibited and most large employers would not tolerate it.
There is no precept of the Church directing us to announce our beliefs, or announce how we feel about gays, Muslims, atheists, fornicators etc all day at work. And doing so hardly fits in with love thy neighbor.
Muting this thread now as I’ve said the same thing about 4 times. Bye
There is a difference.
If you were to go around making it known how you feel, then the evangelical who thinks you are going to Hell for being Catholic would be able to run his mouth all day also. Now I know in some workplaces they do, and in other workplaces everyone from Satanists to Catholics might be announcing their beliefs. Legally in US it’s prohibited and most large employers would not tolerate it.
There is no precept of the Church directing us to announce our beliefs, or announce how we feel about gays, Muslims, atheists, fornicators etc all day at work. And doing so hardly fits in with love thy neighbor.
Muting this thread now as I’ve said the same thing about 4 times. Bye
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phil19034
Guest
Thank you for your answer, but I think you misunderstood me. I never said making it known how you feel is “religious practice…” it isn’t. But it is religious freedom.Making it known how you feel is not “religious practice”.
There is a difference.
If you were to go around making it known how you feel, then the evangelical who thinks you are going to Hell for being Catholic would be able to run his mouth all day also. Now I know in some workplaces they do, and in other workplaces everyone from Satanists to Catholics might be announcing their beliefs. Legally in US it’s prohibited and most large employers would not tolerate it.
There is no precept of the Church directing us to announce our beliefs, or announce how we feel about gays, Muslims, atheists, fornicators etc all day at work. And doing so hardly fits in with love thy neighbor.
Muting this thread now as I’ve said the same thing about 4 times. Bye
My point is that people do not have the same “religious freedom” to wear their religion on their sleeves in public like they once did. There are more financial consequences for doing so today.
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YourNameHere
Guest
The question I always have when these so-called controversies come up is why did this person feel the need to post something like this on Instagram?
There are so many wonderful things to talk about in this world.
There are people who have been hurt by violence or weather-related events, or so many other things that could be addressed.
Why the need to say that homosexuals will go to hell?
It’s like many people in this world have nothing worthwhile to talk about, so they seek to stir up trouble.
This person could have chosen so many wonderful things from the Bible, but chose to post what he posted. Why? This I do not understand.
There are so many wonderful things to talk about in this world.
There are people who have been hurt by violence or weather-related events, or so many other things that could be addressed.
Why the need to say that homosexuals will go to hell?
It’s like many people in this world have nothing worthwhile to talk about, so they seek to stir up trouble.
This person could have chosen so many wonderful things from the Bible, but chose to post what he posted. Why? This I do not understand.
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Calliope
Guest
In the USA Christians are now feeling what has been the norm for non Christains for a long time. We have freedom to practice our individual faiths but there are consequences for sharing our faith in certain venues because people don’t always agree.
For a period of time Christianity enjoyed being the most common and popular faith and expressing other beliefs often brought about uncomfortable or dangerous consequences. That is changing and now being Openly Christian can lead to the backlash that is familiar to those of other faiths.
It’s always been true that the public behavior and voicing of opinions and beliefs of celebrities has led to problems by the organizations that employ them. Afraid that they will lose income if an athlete or actor shares unpopular opinions, companies have often opted to drop a celebrity.
There is nothing new about that, nor is it limited to religious beliefs. Decades ago an actress who became pregnant out of wedlock could find her contracts cancelled and find herself blackballed in Hollywood. The issues have changed but human behavior has not.
I support anyone’s right to say what they please on a public forum and to any extent that is legal and doesn’t put others in danger, but no one can legislate that there won’t be human and economic consequences for doing so.
Sometimes those consequences are positive.
I don’t know if the athlete in question violated any part of his contract or what fine print there might be about any perceived damages to the organization that employs him via his public behavior.
At the end of the day I doubt his employers care what he believes, they are interested in the economic impact. Though it looks like religious discrimination, it’s probably about money. If he expressed nonreligious beliefs that were publicly unpopular, they’d probably treat him the same way.
Whenever we put ourselves out there, we put ourselves in the firing line.
I don’t think he or anyone else should be fired for their beliefs, but according to his contract he might be liable for his behavior. There are some jobs that are incompatible with certain belief systems. That’s reality, and it’s my responsibility to choose employment that doesn’t require me to compromise my faith.
For a period of time Christianity enjoyed being the most common and popular faith and expressing other beliefs often brought about uncomfortable or dangerous consequences. That is changing and now being Openly Christian can lead to the backlash that is familiar to those of other faiths.
It’s always been true that the public behavior and voicing of opinions and beliefs of celebrities has led to problems by the organizations that employ them. Afraid that they will lose income if an athlete or actor shares unpopular opinions, companies have often opted to drop a celebrity.
There is nothing new about that, nor is it limited to religious beliefs. Decades ago an actress who became pregnant out of wedlock could find her contracts cancelled and find herself blackballed in Hollywood. The issues have changed but human behavior has not.
I support anyone’s right to say what they please on a public forum and to any extent that is legal and doesn’t put others in danger, but no one can legislate that there won’t be human and economic consequences for doing so.
Sometimes those consequences are positive.
I don’t know if the athlete in question violated any part of his contract or what fine print there might be about any perceived damages to the organization that employs him via his public behavior.
At the end of the day I doubt his employers care what he believes, they are interested in the economic impact. Though it looks like religious discrimination, it’s probably about money. If he expressed nonreligious beliefs that were publicly unpopular, they’d probably treat him the same way.
Whenever we put ourselves out there, we put ourselves in the firing line.
I don’t think he or anyone else should be fired for their beliefs, but according to his contract he might be liable for his behavior. There are some jobs that are incompatible with certain belief systems. That’s reality, and it’s my responsibility to choose employment that doesn’t require me to compromise my faith.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
That sounds like a terrible thing to put on Instagram as I doubt that this football player is able to read souls and not the fate of persons.that homosexuals etc would go to hell.
Being a Christian, practicing one’s Faith is not telling people they will go to hell, it is sharing the love and mercy of Christ.
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phil19034
Guest
Well… what did he actually quote? A true Bible verse, or a paraphrase?For example I live in Australia and here a football player named Folau has been suspended of his millions dollars contract for putting a quote from the Bible on his own Instagram page that homosexuals etc would go to hell.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
He should not have signed a contract that forbade such if it is that important for him to announce who is going to hell.I think he should be free to state this on his own Instagram page or blog if he believes this is what God says (even if misguided) without repercussions/persecution etc.
Read 1 Corinthians 13. If you have all of the wonderfulness in the world and do not have love, it is nothing.I assume because he feels by God that it’s the right think to do to “tell it as it is” (Gods ways according to his belief rightly or wrongly).
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ATraveller
Guest
I saw the post. It was a paraphrase of the logical conclusion of 1 Cor 6:9-11. It was much more blunt than how the Apostle Paul worded things.Well… what did he actually quote? A true Bible verse, or a paraphrase?
I find it fascinating how people, mostly atheists, agnostics or New Agers, are offended by a place they believe doesn’t exist.
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Rozellelily
Guest
Unfortunately there’s nothing more to it except that he had previously been warned by the execs (unfairly in my view) to not post things like that again.
Unlike in the USA where it’s more a “mixed bag” Australia for the most part-especially Australian media-is very pro gay issues support and pro transgender etc.
In the Us generally I think there are some prominent Christian politicians but here the few that are Christian are usually more mocked/not given support.
So the climate is quite anti Christian views.
Unlike in the USA where it’s more a “mixed bag” Australia for the most part-especially Australian media-is very pro gay issues support and pro transgender etc.
In the Us generally I think there are some prominent Christian politicians but here the few that are Christian are usually more mocked/not given support.
So the climate is quite anti Christian views.
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Rozellelily
Guest
But the reality is the bible does mention certain things about gay lifestyle.
The way he said it was wrong as no one knows who goes where after death etc and shouldn’t judge,but I think if it was just mentioned or phrased in any way at all it would make these people think it was bigoted/homophobia.
Ie:you mentioned homophobia but I think many pro gay relationship supporters would consider any mention of it altogether as homophobia.
Christians (plus Muslims) can’t get around the facts though that it is mentioned in the bible (or qaran for Muslims) as are many other things of course.
In essence to gay relationship supporters,Christianity is a homophobic religion and outdated.
I agree about not rubbing religions in people’s faces like people who harass people on trains etc but then on the other hand if Christians completely keep their religion to themselves out of fear of upsetting the majority is that good for society either?
The way he said it was wrong as no one knows who goes where after death etc and shouldn’t judge,but I think if it was just mentioned or phrased in any way at all it would make these people think it was bigoted/homophobia.
Ie:you mentioned homophobia but I think many pro gay relationship supporters would consider any mention of it altogether as homophobia.
Christians (plus Muslims) can’t get around the facts though that it is mentioned in the bible (or qaran for Muslims) as are many other things of course.
In essence to gay relationship supporters,Christianity is a homophobic religion and outdated.
I agree about not rubbing religions in people’s faces like people who harass people on trains etc but then on the other hand if Christians completely keep their religion to themselves out of fear of upsetting the majority is that good for society either?
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