Can Christians fully practice their beliefs today?

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That must be hard.
It’s one thing for a teacher to personally hold a view but to enforce/indoctrinate it onto students by displaying rainbow flags in the classroom seems wrong.
 
Rozellelily said:
What I mean though,is how would Christians tell people “the good gospel of Jesus love and saving cross” in they can’t/don’t outline to people what specific things are sins in the first place because it’s not politically correct/could cause offense?
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Convicting people of sin is the job of the Holy Spirit.

Scripture is very clear how we are to bring people to Christ.

Remember when the rich young ruler came to Christ? Did Jesus tell him “you need to go out to people, total strangers even, and point out sins!”

John Chapter 13, Christ got down and did the work of the lowliest servant. Washing feet in that time was not the pretty thing you see on Holy Thursday at Mass, not even what you see when you go get a pedicure. People walked in sandals, the streets were not paved, the streets were filled with animal droppings, waste, after walking your feet were filthy. The feet were cleaned by a servant.

" If I, therefore, the master and teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash one another’s feet."

Wow. That is far from sitting ourselves up on a pedastool and saying “I am such a good Christian, so holy and pure, and you are a sinner!”

I have given you a model to follow, so that as I have done for you, you should also do.i16Amen, amen, I say to you, no slave is greater than his master nor any messenger*greater than the one who sent him.j

Continued in the same passage:

I give you a new commandment:* love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.t35This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I’d challenge a good read of the book of John and then spend time with 1 Corinthians 13

And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.
 
Gluttony is a sin. Could you imagine someone famous posting condemning passages about gluttony and implying that fat people are going to hell?

While I think gays sometimes can be a bit too sensitive, they really have a reason to be that way. My personal feeling is that if you’d never call out fat people then don’t call out gays, either. If you do feel it’s your right to voice these sentiments then be prepared for the backlash. (All “you” are in the plural sense, to be clear!)
 
Rozellelily said:
especially the workplace things you mentioned
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To be honest, I’m not sure how widespread it is here in general, but it seems to be standard in a lot of big tech companies (e.g. Google, Facebook, Microsoft) that people can be open about their religion.
 
Thanks @TheLittleLady,

I didn’t know that it was the Holy Spirit that convicted people of sin.
At the same time,isn’t it true though that there are such a thing as Christian values and non Christian values?
Not in a “holier than thou” way but just matter of fact speaking.
If alot of Christian values causes someone to find offensive-about gay relationship issues or ivf etc-& people who openly state those values are labeled as bigots,perhaps face repercussions,must remain silent to keep job or friends etc,then doesn’t Christianity disappear from the fabric of society all together?

The washing of the feet etc you mentioned are the ultimate sign of a true “follower” but at the same time doesn’t Catholic also talk of the “harder to swallow” topics like not pro gay relationship,children should have mother + father etc?

For me personally it’s easier to have humility & wash homeless persons feet than to talk about those “above topics” because no one labels a Christian as bigot or outdated for washing feet (or helping charity etc),

People being social creatures often get influenced by the social climate & in Australia here is very pro gay marriage,pro choice/abortion,quite feministic etc so when population is continuously exposed to these views/narratives from our politicians and media and not given any alternative views to also consider,doesn’t it create a society when God is “pushed out”?

I don’t want to limit God,but in reality can the Holy Spirit even still have effect in a country where the society doesn’t agree with Christianity/like Christian values?
Realistically here,you hardly ever hear of someone becoming a new Christian.
You see born Muslims stay Muslim,born Hindu stay Hindu,born Christians stay Christian (or become agnostic because won’t stay in church not agree with gay marriage etc) but I never hear of anyone becoming a new Christian. (yes in USA but not in Australia).
Except some young people here go to hillsong but how much of that is due to social factors vs religion factors I don’t know.

When Christianity is 99% of the time painted in a negative light here,what would cause anyone to desire to become a new Christian?

To me it seems this footballer feels he’s “evangelizing” in some way (even if a bit counterproductively).
Or is evangelism now “dead” according to Catholic religion (if that makes sense)?
 
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When people can be sacked/receive repercussions due to someone feeling offfense,it can become a very slippery slope.
For example I read of a Christian medical doctor in the U.K. being fired because he refused to use patients preferred gender pronouns.

At what point do people’s feelings have to be balanced with rational truth?
Sure he could just have referred to them however they wanted to be sensitive,but at the same time wouldn’t he be doing them a disservice because doesn’t this then throw out truth and clear thinking?

 
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I see what you mean.For fairness sake though he did also mention drunks,adulterers,liars,atheists etc.

I hope this doesn’t come out sounding bad but isn’t a part of the issue/reasoning for this though that gluttony is not widely accepted by Australian society as fine (or perhaps not considered as relevant today due to the large supply of food so no one misses out today due to another’s excess eating) but gay relationships are.

For example,Kerri-Anne Kennerly a “tv personality” here stated:
“Of all the quotes from the bible, of which there are thousands, why would you choose one that singled out a particular part of society that today is very well accepted and very well embraced in our community?To me that not Christian”

To me it seems that Folau believes he is using his public position telling “Gods truth” to a society that is constantly told the opposite-that gay marriage/relationship is ok/accepted/embraced.
Kerry Anne believes it is not Christian to say it,Folau likely believes it is not Christian to not say it.

Does the answer lie somewhere in the middle as afterall the Bible does mention about homosexuality?

I do think the way he said that it was bad/judging seeming & he could have spoke “his truth” in a more thoughtful way such as saying homosexual relationship is just one of the things that are against gods way but people with this feeling have a heavy cross to bear & deserve compassion but I think even if he said it this way people would still be offended in AUS?
Cause to make a statement that is not embracing goes against the very strong “vibe” in Australia that it is/must be embraced.
 
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catholic03 said:
Christianity is seen as elitist and snobbish.
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But why is that?
With all due respect you have it a lot easier than most. You are free to attend Mass and other devotions. You are able to speak about your faith in public and on social media. You are able to practice your faith at home and in your chosen place of worship. Should you wish you could build a church, you are hardly forced into an underground church and gagged. Be thankful for the blessings and freedom you do have compared to many others in the world.
 
Anybody can worship God and love their neighbour, so yes, in that sense we can practice our faith. On the other hand, some can’t evangelise as it’s against the laws of their country. Some can’t access the sacraments as we know that priests and missionaries are still being killed in parts of the world, and even in the family people can’t necessarily practice their faith as they’d wish… for example, your adolescent could legally access contraceptives, abortion… maybe even sex hormones for changing gender. I don’t know anything about the footballer you mentioned, though.
 
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Yes,in Australia also adolescents can get sex hormones for changing gender without parents permission unless the doctor feels the child is not capable of making an informed decision then they will defer to the parents.
Isn’t this all a bit backwards?In some countries a person can’t even go to a nightclub until they are 21 but yet teens are thought to have the cognitive and decision making ability to make such a serious life altering change such as their gender?

I would maybe understand in a severe case such as the child had suicidal feelings but in other instances to me it seems irresponsible by doctors and governments.🤷‍♀️
 
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Without knowing the details it’s difficult to make any real judgement. Perhaps there is evidence of suicidal feelings. I’ve been told that the situation is reversible regarding the sex hormones.

Edit: though apparently that’s not correct
Cross - sex hormones (i.e. oestrogen or testosterone) can be prescribed from age 16 after a minimum of 12 months on hormone blockers. Cross - sex hormones will cause some irreversible changes to the body (e.g. oestrogen will cause the growth of breast tissues; testosterone will cause the voice to break).
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source: Puberty and physical intervention | GIDS
 
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Ok, so you think that Christains should be able to say whatever without any repercussions or anyone disagreeing openly with it. But it’s fine for a Christian to openly disagree with others and make statements that feel threatening to others?

Anyone can say or do what they want but the reality is that there are consequences because that’s how society operates. Some people will consider Christains bigots and Christians consider other people bigoted against Christianity. It’s two sides of the same coin.

My daughter was excluded from her girl scout group because she wasn’t Christian and the leader she’d been assigned to didn’t want any non Christians in her troop. How do you think that felt to a seven year old? And when it was reported, no one would act on it, because we live in an area where Christianity has the upper hand and everyone else is suspect.

While I understand your personal lament that no one is making it easy or comfortable for you to speak openly about your faith or easily evangelize, it’s not really the responsibility of others to support a faith they don’t espouse.

I wouldn’t expect you to create an environment that supported other faiths or for you to try to make it easy for other faiths to convert Christians away from Christianity.

I support freedom of speech and freedom of faith but that doesn’t include individuals from disagreeing or reacting to the words and actions of others.

It’s naive to expect a non Christian society to create an atmosphere where Christianity is publicly supported. Christianity isn’t the only faith that doesn’t get public support. Any minority faith or belief is fighting an uphill battle.
 
Christians can fully practice our religion in private and in church. But in public we have to self censor because there is much intolerance directed at Christians. In the name of tolerance and anti discrimination Christians are subject to intolerance and discrimination. Teachers and professors have been subject to mob harassment or fired for expressing views that go against the prevailing orthodoxy. Small businessses being harassed and sued. Couples not allowed to adopt because of their Christian beliefs. Christian adoption agencies have been banned.

The so called most tolerant people are only tolerant of those with whom they agree. Christians don’t even have to cause any real harm to be persecuted. All these businesses being sued because they are following their beliefs aren’t harming anyone. Customers can get the services anywhere. Rather these businesses are being punished for their beliefs which somehow offend the dignity of others. When we go down that road the punishment is for thoughts and beliefs more than any actual harm.
 
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Calliope said:
My daughter was excluded from her girl scout group because she wasn’t Christian and the leader she’d been assigned to didn’t want any non Christians in her troop. How do you think that felt to a seven year old? And when it was reported, no one would act on it, because we live in an area where Christianity has the upper hand and everyone else is suspect.
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And imagine the thoughts of children told their parents would go to hell because they were unbelievers. This was my wife’s experience, at the hands of Catholics. Folau has many children who are fans. Many must now go to bed at night filled with terror.
 
Calliope said:
Ok, so you think that Christains should be able to say whatever without any repercussions or anyone disagreeing openly with it. But it’s fine for a Christian to openly disagree with others and make statements that feel threatening to others?
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Is that the impression I gave??
No,I think that anyone -Christian,Muslim,Hindu,Agnostic etc should be able to state their views,express their religious beliefs or lack of (rightly or wrongly) and that people should be free to disagree with it openly.
In my view that’s what makes a good diverse society.
What I don’t agree with though is repurcussions for an opinion (even if unpopular or misguided one).
If there are repurcussions for unpopular views then it becomes an unbalanced politically correct society.

I feel that regardless of whether it’s a society like Australia that is “secular”,or Russia or Iran etc.

The line has to be drawn though somewhere and that is if someone makes direct threats to another or personal insults.

It is the difference between someone reposting a direct bible quote about hell vs saying “all gays are ****** and I hope they all burn in hell”.
The first is matter of fact (even if misguided),the second is an insult.

I would still support the same freedom of speech if the footy player that posted this was Muslim faith instead of Christian.

I don’t think a person should be sacked but absolutely I think people should openly disagree if that’s what they feel.
His Instagram post currently is actually filled with other posters disagreeing back and forth about it.
Sadly some of the comments are not kind/charitable (both from Christians and to the Christians).

I’m really sorry that happened to your daughter.Thats pretty awful.Ive never heard anything like that here but I can imagine it happens elsewhere.
It’s not as if girl scouting is a first communion event or something so I can’t imagine any justification/sense that she had to exclude her.
 
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Rozellelily said:
For example I live in Australia and here a football player named Folau has been suspended of his millions dollars contract for putting a quote from the Bible on his own Instagram page that homosexuals etc would go to hell.

The code is wanting him to be sacked because they believe it is homophobia.
Personally I don’t believe anyone can say who will or wont go to hell etc as only god knows heart/person,but shouldn’t he be entitled to express his religious belief publicly on his own page?
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To be fair, judging the state of someone’s soul is wrong and it’s not practicing our beliefs to do that. I don’t think it’s discrimination though.

I’m glad he got called out for it, but obviously I do believe in freedom of speech generally. Which isn’t really the topic here I guess.

That being said, it’s harder to practise religion. Students in medicine for example are expressing difficulty in situations where they have to give ABC, for example.
 
You make a good point about Folau probably having some children that are followers and also some if them may even be struggling with gay feelings.
While on one hand no one would want a child-who’s mind who is not yet fully formed -to misinterpret his quote in a fearful way or cause then worry or difficulty etc,at the same time this quote was from the Bible itself so if it causes this much offense shouldn’t those pages be removed from the Bible altogether?
 
In a way,free speech is the topic too because with free speech removed so can be freedom of open religious expression.
Sorry but what is ABC refer to?
 
I should clarify,because I’m not sure if I 100% made it clear in my opening post,that this footballer Folau was reposting a quote from the Bible and it wasn’t his own words stating “gays are ***** and will burn in hell”.
It was matter of fact bible repost without angry or hateful tone,no mention of burning etc.

I think part of his lawyers defense is that it was a reposted bible quote and not his own words making a direct insult.

I agree his post was unloving,poor judgment,thinking could read souls and judging people but those things to me are an “offense” under God and shouldn’t be offense under law because then there is no free speech.

If reposting an unpopular/offensive Bible quote could cause someone to lose their contract then should that quote be removed from the Bible altogether?

Or is it more that he holds an extra position of responsibility due to his “public position” but if a accountant or shopkeeper posted it then it shouldn’t/wouldn’t be sackable?
 
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Rozellelily said:
The issue for the footballer Israel Folau isn’t from Instagram but it’s rather from the executives who run the rugby football code that he plays in.
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Whether or not we agree with censorship, (and I almost invariably do not), private entities are within their legal rights to exercise it.

It’s only when government crack down, (as I understand Australia’s does from time to time), that my hair really starts to stand on end. I’m pretty rabidly pro-free-speech and don’t accept remarks like, “I believe in free speech, just not ‘hate’ speech” or “But their message is ‘dangerous.’”

You don’t get genuine free speech without unfortunately putting up with the bigots, misinformers, and misanthropes.

Getting back to your thread title, we Christians can fully practice our beliefs. We may face social stigma for it, making it all the more important for us to set a good example by living as ambassadors to Christ. But so long as it isn’t outright forbidden by a government, our religious freedom is (for the most part) in tact.
 
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