Can Civilly Married Catholics Receive the Sacraments?

[stevusmagnus]

Hi.

Here is the situation. One Catholic is in a civil marriage for some years, the other in a sacramental marriage for some years with children.

The two meet online and grow fond of each other. The first gets a civil divorce. The second starts the process of a civil divorce.

The two decide to get civilly married to each other after the divorces are final. Their intention is to wait for the annulment of the second party and later convalidate their new marriage to make it sacramental.

What advice would you give to these Catholics and what are the moral implications of their actions?

Should they be receiving the sacraments?

Thanks!

 

[passus]

There’s a lot going on here.

First, the Catholic who is in the civil marriage should not be receiving Holy Communion. All Catholics are bound to the marriage laws of the Church and if that marriage is merely civil, then the Catholic is not adhering to those laws, therefore rendering the person inadmissible to Holy Communion.

From what you’ve told us, right now there are at least no canonical barriers directly related to marriage preventing the second Catholic from receiving Holy Communion.

There will be some considerable difficulty for the second Catholic in obtaining a declaration of nullity because a consummated sacramental marriage is intrinsically indissoluble.

 

[Spirithound]

Here is the situation. One Catholic is in a civil marriage for some years, the other in a sacramental marriage for some years with children.

The two meet online and grow fond of each other. The first gets a civil divorce. The second starts the process of a civil divorce.

The two decide to get civilly married to each other after the divorces are final. Their intention is to wait for the annulment of the second party and later convalidate their new marriage to make it sacramental.

What advice would you give to these Catholics and what are the moral implications of their actions?

Should they be receiving the sacraments?

Thanks!

Firstly, they both need declarations of nullity from those marriages; all marriages, even between non-Catholics are presumed valid unless proven otherwise. While they are civilly married to each other, and do not have their first marriages declared null, they are committing adultery, and should not be receiving Holy Communion. They should, in fact, confess their sin and live as brother and sister until they are declared free to marry in the Church.

 

[Spirithound]

There will be some considerable difficulty for the second Catholic in obtaining a declaration of nullity because a consummated sacramental marriage is intrinsically indissoluble.

There might not be much difficulty. A declaration of nullity doesn’t dissolve a marriage, it declares that one never existed.

 

[stevusmagnus]

Suppose the current state is that the new couple is now living together, both civilly divorced from former spouses, now civilly married to each other, waiting on the annulment of the sacramentally married Catholic. They justify this situation due to the fact they are not “consummating” and thus in their mind not sinning.

Should they separate and break off any relationship unless and until an annulment is declared?

Thanks!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

My advice to them is to rethink their plans, as they are totally wrong. They are not free to marry each other and will not be until (IF) Catholic A’s first marriage is judged invalid by the Church due to lack of form, and Catholic B’s first marriage is judged null by the Tribunal.

If they do marry before those judgments, they would be living in mortal sin (I see no mention of them living as 'brother-and-sister) so apparently they intend to have sexual relations, in which case they are engaging in adultery.

As they would be living in mortal sin with no possibility of making a valid confession and ‘sinning no more’, they may not receive the sacraments of the Church and are in danger of eternal damnation themselves, not to mention the scandal they give to others, particularly to the children of Catholic B, by such wrong examples.

If they are truly ‘fond of each other’ they will WAIT until they are free to marry in the Church and not try to ‘have their cake and eat it too.’ What arrogance to **assume **not only that they WILL get a decree (they may not), but also that they can then just ‘go make it right’ with just popping into church after who knows how many months/years of living in mortal sin ‘civilly’ and demanding a ‘convalidation’. \

This is a very different situation from someone who didn’t truly understand Catholic teaching, and had thought it was ‘all right’ to remarry after divorce, and then LATER found out that it was not.

Your people, Steve, apparently know the Church teaching but think it doesn’t apply to them, or that they can just do as they please and ‘follow the rules’ at some later point and ‘it’s all good.’ How sad for them, and indeed, how dangerous and diabolical that type of thinking is.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Now if the couple is living as ‘brother-and-sister’, it becomes slightly trickier. You see, you did mention Catholic B had children. Now, if these were very young children, or special needs children, they may have already ‘bonded with’ the ‘new’ parent. So there may be serious ill effects on the children if this couple were to separate completely. But if the children were older, with no special needs, and there would be no serious ill effects on the family with a separation, it might indeed be something the couple should consider, especially if they are trying their best to follow Church teaching and to show their willingness to abide by such.

If they are living as brother-and-sister, quietly, with no ‘scandal’, making it clear to the priest that this is the situation; and if they are otherwise in a state of grace, they should be able to receive the sacraments, if the priest (due to the ‘non-consummation’) forgives them the otherwise mortal sin of marrying outside the Church in this second marriage.

 

[Seatuck]

No, most likely they should not receive the Sacraments and in my opinion from the info here should indeed separate until the tribunal gives a decree of nullity.

If it hasn’t been done already the Catholic marrid civilly should submit papwerwork to prove that to the church as well. It’s a simple annulment or documentary case.

Both should be in pastoral counseling and seriously reflecting on marriage. There could be an impediment here. The meeting on line and then filing for a divorce situation is troubling. They need to prepare for confession. The situation is sinful and scandalous.

Here’s some reading.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/communion_of_divorced_and_remarr.htm

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_14091994_rec-holy-comm-by-divorced_en.html

 

[Lost_Lamb]

I am in a civil marriage. My first was annulled, my husband has never been married. We still can’t receive the sacraments until after our marriage has been blessed.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Lancer]

*“Firstly, they both need declarations of nullity from those marriages; all marriages, even between non-Catholics are presumed valid unless proven otherwise.”

*Not true…the (first) Catholic who was married outside the Church (civil)…was never married…in the eyes of the Church…thus, does not need a decree of nullity. Am I right or wrong on this?
*From what you’ve told us, right now there are at least **no canonical barriers **directly related to marriage preventing the second Catholic from receiving Holy Communion.
*I assume that the wording no canonical barriers] of this is to not pass judgment on (totally) being in the proper disposition to receive Holy Communion…based on the fact that this Church sacramental married Catholic…may have some other “serious” or “grave” sinful problems…that is, violating his/her marriage vows (infidelity) by getting intimately involved (even if there is no physical intimacy…no “consummating” in their new civil marriage ) with another person…who is not his/her sacramental marriage spouse…and planning/conspiring to divorce his/her spouse and the father/mother of his/her children. My advice to the “second, sacramental married Catholic” would be to see a priest/confessor before receiving Holy Communion…even if he/she were still living with his/her sacramental marriage spouse. Am I right or judging this wrongly?

Pax Christi

 

[Rosa_Centifolia]

I think that matters like these are best left to the individuals in question and their priests, Stevus. And you should probably speak to your spiritual advisor about your reasons for starting this thread.

 

[stevusmagnus]

As we know there are, unfortunately, many priests who would give incorrect advice. It is important to know what the right course is in this matter.

I’m pretty sure I don’t need to see a spiritual advisor about my reasons for posting a moral question on a moral theology forum, but thanks for the advice though!

 

[Rosa_Centifolia]

As we know there are, unfortunately, many priests who would give incorrect advice. It is important to know what the right course is in this matter.

I’m pretty sure I don’t need to see a spiritual advisor about my reasons for posting a moral question on a moral theology forum, but thanks for the advice though!

Stevus, you’re fooling no one - especially God. It’s Lent, so give up and go to Confession. And don’t forget to set your alarm in the morning or you’ll end up at Life Teen again, buddy!

 

[Spirithound]

"Firstly, they both need declarations of nullity from those marriages; all marriages, even between non-Catholics are presumed valid unless proven otherwise."

Not true…the (first) Catholic who was married outside the Church (civil)…was never married…in the eyes of the Church…thus, does not need a decree of nullity. Am I right or wrong on this?

You’re right that if a Catholic marries outside the Church, he was never married, but it is still necessary to submit this to the Marriage Tribunal, who will then declare that there was no marriage due to a lack of form.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hi.

Here is the situation. One Catholic is in a civil marriage for some years, the other in a sacramental marriage for some years with children.

The two meet online and grow fond of each other. The first gets a civil divorce. The second starts the process of a civil divorce.

The two decide to get civilly married to each other after the divorces are final. Their intention is to wait for the annulment of the second party and later convalidate their new marriage to make it sacramental.

What advice would you give to these Catholics and what are the moral implications of their actions?

Should they be receiving the sacraments?

Thanks!

They should continue to practice their faith and attend Mass, but not receive the Sacraments because of their situation. If possible they should separate until the annulment decision is made and they are (depending on the decision) either free or not to get married.

They could if this is not possible live as brother and sister, go to Confession and continue practicing their faith.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

"Firstly, they both need declarations of nullity from those marriages; all marriages, even between non-Catholics are presumed valid unless proven otherwise."

Not true…the (first) Catholic who was married outside the Church (civil)…was never married…in the eyes of the Church…thus, does not need a decree of nullity. Am I right or wrong on this?*From what you’ve told us, right now there are at least **no canonical barriers ***directly related to marriage preventing the second Catholic from receiving Holy Communion.
I assume that the wording no canonical barriers] of this is to not pass judgment on (totally) being in the proper disposition to receive Holy Communion…based on the fact that this Church sacramental married Catholic…may have some other “serious” or “grave” sinful problems…that is, violating his/her marriage vows (infidelity) by getting intimately involved (even if there is no physical intimacy…no “consummating” in their new civil marriage ) with another person…who is not his/her sacramental marriage spouse…and planning/conspiring to divorce his/her spouse and the father/mother of his/her children. My advice to the “second, sacramental married Catholic” would be to see a priest/confessor before receiving Holy Communion…even if he/she were still living with his/her sacramental marriage spouse. Am I right or judging this wrongly?

Pax Christi

Both need to be determined Null by the Church maybe by different processes.

 

[ready]

Hi.

Here is the situation. One Catholic is in a civil marriage for some years, the other in a sacramental marriage for some years with children.

The two meet online and grow fond of each other. The first gets a civil divorce. The second starts the process of a civil divorce.

The two decide to get civilly married to each other after the divorces are final. Their intention is to wait for the annulment of the second party and later convalidate their new marriage to make it sacramental.

What advice would you give to these Catholics and what are the moral implications of their actions?

Should they be receiving the sacraments?

Thanks!

No, they can not receive communion, as obtaining a solely civil marriage as Catholics is a mortal sin.

 

[1ke]

Hi.

Here is the situation. One Catholic is in a civil marriage for some years, the other in a sacramental marriage for some years with children.

The two meet online and grow fond of each other. The first gets a civil divorce. The second starts the process of a civil divorce.

The two decide to get civilly married to each other after the divorces are final. Their intention is to wait for the annulment of the second party and later convalidate their new marriage to make it sacramental.

What advice would you give to these Catholics and what are the moral implications of their actions?

Should they be receiving the sacraments?

Thanks!

This couple presumes that a decree of nullity will be forthcoming for both of them. For the one married in the Church this is in no way a “given.”

This couple should NOT marry civilly until their canonical status is known.

The are committing a multitude of sins should they do so. And, if they do so, no they cannot receive the Sacraments-- unless and until they cease living as husband and wife and go to their priest for the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

The couple should see their priest before they marry civilly or take any action in that direction.

 

[vstead]

Similar story. My mum and dad, both catholics married in 1968. Although devastated to learn that he had been married before (in a catholic church) she went ahead and they had a civil marriage. They settled down in a new parish where the priest would not give them holy communion. (there was no point in her looking into an annulment of dads marriage as it seemed a valid one). They had 5 children, all brought up in the church but as time went on she said she feared for her soul and she and my dad began a celibate life twenty years ago. This had no bearing on the priests decision, he said only when she left my dad, stopped living under the same roof as him could he absolve her.She says she couldnt do this after 5 children and just made do with mass and regular confession. We then moved to a new parish and after meeting the priest there my mum was beside herself with joy after the new priest said that as they have been celibate and confessed, he was happy to administer the communion. She’ s worried that she is recieving when she shouldnt be, she keeps remembering that the first priest told her as long as shes under the same roof as my dad, she continues to commit adultery. Please can anyone give a definitive answer.

 

[ready]

Similar story. My mum and dad, both catholics married in 1968. Although devastated to learn that he had been married before (in a catholic church) she went ahead and they had a civil marriage. They settled down in a new parish where the priest would not give them holy communion. (there was no point in her looking into an annulment of dads marriage as it seemed a valid one). They had 5 children, all brought up in the church but as time went on she said she feared for her soul and she and my dad began a celibate life twenty years ago. This had no bearing on the priests decision, he said only when she left my dad, stopped living under the same roof as him could he absolve her.She says she couldnt do this after 5 children and just made do with mass and regular confession. We then moved to a new parish and after meeting the priest there my mum was beside herself with joy after the new priest said that as they have been celibate and confessed, he was happy to administer the communion. She’ s worried that she is recieving when she shouldnt be, she keeps remembering that the first priest told her as long as shes under the same roof as my dad, she continues to commit adultery. Please can anyone give a definitive answer.

Just ask the second priest and a whole new priest who is very devout if there exists a problem for your mother because of what the first priest had required of her and her partner for absolution. Maybe it’s something that is now in God’s hands alone, however. I don’t really understand these things. A good priest would know better than I would.