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vstead
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Thanks Ready.
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FrDavid96
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It’s difficult to understand exactly what you mean. “The two decide to get civilly married” Does that mean that they intend to get a civil marriage, or that they have already done so?
If they have already been married in a civil ceremony, then neither of them are able to receive Communion.
On the other hand, (and this would apply to either party), being divorced is not itself a barrier to receiving Communion. That only applies if one is divorced AND re-married (or living together).
It’s possible for a very devout and faithful Catholic to be in a situation where a declaration of nullity is appropriate, but in order to even petition for one, a civil divorce must come first. As a matter of law, the Church cannot declare a marriage “null and void” if that marriage is still legal in the eyes of the state. So a Catholic in that situation has no choice but to obtain a civil divorce. Yet, as the same time, that very devout Catholic would not be prohibited from receiving Communion before an annulment based solely on the fact that he/she is divorced.
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You are most welcome!
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I would write to Fr. Benedict Groeschel, the Franciscan priest on EWTN and explain the situation. His advice is something you can count on.
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My mum has just put pen to paper. thanks again Ready.
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Br.Rich_SFO
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Here is one better than Fr. Benedict:
"The mistaken conviction of a divorced-and-remarried person that he may receive holy communion normally presupposes that personal conscience is considered in the final analysis to be able, on the basis of one’s own convictions, to come to a decision about the existence or absence of a previous marriage and the value of the new union. However, such a position is inadmissible. Marriage, in fact, both because it is the image of the spousal relationship between Christ and his church as well as the fundamental core and an important factor in the life of civil society, is essentially a public reality.
It is certainly true that a judgment about one’s own dispositions for the reception of holy communion must be made by a properly formed moral conscience. But it is equally true that the consent that is the foundation of marriage is not simply a private decision since it creates a specifically ecclesial and social situation for the spouses, both individually and as a couple. Thus the judgment of conscience of one’s own marital situation does not regard only the immediate relationship between man and God, as if one could prescind from the church’s mediation that also includes canonical laws binding in conscience. Not to recognize this essential aspect would mean in fact to deny that marriage is a reality of the church, that is to say, a sacrament.
In inviting pastors to distinguish carefully the various situations of the divorced and remarried, the exhortation recalls the case of those who are subjectively certain in conscience that their previous marriage, irreparably broken, had never been valid. It must be discerned with certainty by means of the external forum established by the church whether there is objectively such a nullity of marriage. The discipline of the church, while it confirms the exclusive competence of ecclesiastical tribunals with respect to the examination of the validity of the marriage of Catholics, also offers new ways to demonstrate the nullity of a previous marriage in order to exclude as far as possible every divergence between the truth verifiable in the judicial process and the objective truth known by a correct conscience.
Adherence to the church’s judgment and observance of the existing discipline concerning the obligation of canonical form necessary for the validity of the marriage of Catholics are what truly contribute to the spiritual welfare of the faithful concerned. The church is in fact the body of Christ, and to live in ecclesial communion is to live in the body of Christ and to nourish oneself with the body of Christ. With the reception of the sacrament of the Eucharist, communion with Christ the head can never be separated from communion with his members, that is, with his church.
For this reason, the sacrament of our union with Christ is also the sacrament of the unity of the church. Receiving eucharistic communion contrary to the norms of ecclesial communion is therefore in itself a contradiction. Sacramental communion with Christ includes and presupposes the observance, even if at times difficult, of the order of ecclesial communion, and it cannot be right and fruitful if a member of the faithful, wishing to approach Christ directly, does not respect this order.
In keeping with what has been said above, the desire expressed by the Synod of Bishops, adopted by the Holy Father John Paul II as his own and put into practice with dedication and with praiseworthy initiatives by bishops, priests, religious and lay faithful is yet to be fully realized, namely, with solicitous charity to do everything that can be done to strengthen in the love of Christ and the church those faithful in irregular marriage situations. Only thus will it be possible for them fully to receive the message of Christian marriage and endure in faith the distress of their situation. In pastoral action one must do everything possible to ensure that this is understood not to be a matter of discrimination, but only of absolute fidelity to the will of Christ who has restored and entrusted to us anew the indissolubility of marriage as a gift of the Creator.
It will be necessary for pastors and the community of the faithful to suffer and to love in solidarity with the persons concerned, so that they may recognize in their burden the sweet yoke and the light burden of Jesus. Their burden is not sweet and light in the sense of being small or insignificant, but becomes light because the Lord and with him the whole church shares it. It is the task of pastoral action, which has to be carried out with total dedication, to offer this help, founded in truth and in love together.
United with you in dedication to the collegial task of making the truth of Jesus Christ shine in the life and activity of the church, I remain yours devotedly in the Lord."
Issued under instruction by John Paul II by the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in a letter to the world’s bishops on October 14, 1994.
Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect
Archbishop Alberto Bovone, Secretary
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FrDavid96
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ready
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Excellent! Now be at peace, your answer will come in the mail as soon as God allows. You are always most welcome to my assistance!
God bless!
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Because your mother stopped receiving communion and lived celibately after her visit with the first priest (fear of the Lord) and went to confession about the civil marriage again when the second priest gave her permission to live celibately under the same roof and forgave her of her mortal sin involving the civil marriage, she could be free from mortal danger (she’s absolved). But let a good, sound priest give you the final word and put your minds at rest.
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vstead
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thanks again Ready
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You’re welcome!
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Sorry to go on about this Ready but am i right in thinking that FrDavid and yourself have a different view in this case. I know these things cant always be so clear cut. You reiterate everything our priest has said.FrDavid seems pretty clear though that she shouldnt really recieve under the circumstances. All views are really appreciated.
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FrDavid96
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vstead,
In the eyes of God no true marriage has taken place between your mother and her partner, just objectively a mortal sin for both of them, as it is a mortal sin for Catholics to engage in a purely civil marriage outside of holy matrimony in the Church. Also, now that I reread the case presented, I see that your mother’s partner is still married in God’s eyes to another woman. The couple really should not be living together, as your mother’s partner is still married in God’s eyes to another (scandal). I didn’t catch this until Fr. David’s post. I’m really sorry.
In the eyes of God no true marriage has taken place between your mother and her partner, just objectively a mortal sin for both of them, as it is a mortal sin for Catholics to engage in a purely civil marriage outside of holy matrimony in the Church. Also, now that I reread the case presented, I see that your mother’s partner is still married in God’s eyes to another woman. The couple really should not be living together, as your mother’s partner is still married in God’s eyes to another (scandal). I didn’t catch this until Fr. David’s post. I’m really sorry.
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FrDavid96
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Wow!!!
That does explain a lot.
And they’ve been living under this assumption all this time? I truly feel for them. A petition for a declaration of nullity is just that–a petition. It doesn’t mean that it will always be granted, and not to submit one because the priest felt that in his own opinion it would not be granted is not a very sound practice. Every such petition must provide a reason, and if there is no reason, then indeed it should not be attempted. However, speaking in very general terms, when one spouse leaves another, that calls into question the intentions of that spouse (who left) to engage in a permanent union, dissolved only by death. In other words, that in itself is grounds for such a petition. I’m not saying that in your parents case, it’s grounds for a declaration of nullity–only the tribunal can come to that decision. What I am saying is that it is grounds for such a petition.
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no need to apologse, thanks for the views:vstead,
In the eyes of God no true marriage has taken place between your mother and her partner, just objectively a mortal sin for both of them, as it is a mortal sin for Catholics to engage in a purely civil marriage outside of holy matrimony in the Church. Also, now that I reread the case presented, I see that your mother’s partner is still married in God’s eyes to another woman. The couple really should not be living together, as your mother’s partner is still married in God’s eyes to another (scandal). I didn’t catch this until Fr. David’s post. I’m really sorry.
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Your Father should definitely petition the Tribunal to have his marriage annulled. But, I’m sorry to say, I have to agree with the priest who said that your Mom and Dad should live separately until they are lawfully married in the Church - to avoid the sin of scandal, another mortal sin. I’ll definitely pray that things work out for your family.
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