Can conservative Catholic men become controlling in marriage?

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Gosh - I’m not entirely fond of my subject title and you know what - if you are a man and this DOESN’T apply to you - then good! I am asking as a single woman.

I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I am quite conservative and it would be nice for me to share the most important views of mine if I were married. I feel that if I don’t, I lack the ability to have any real substantive conversations without feeling the frustration and the chasm that follows.

But I am worried that some Christian men may abuse the “submit to your husbands in everything” clause to be overbearing or control freaks. It’s like I don’t want a nominal or “liberal” Christian but I am starting to get worried that a conservative one will be too controlling. I keep trying to tell myself that in a true Christian marriage, this would not happen. but anyway.

How do I go about such a thing? Is seeking a devout Catholic man asking to be controlled, or are there good men that realize that the submission clause is not a license to boss your wife around? it’s good to choose a man who would be a good leader - spiritually, especially. but can such leadership be abused?

I have a feeling that this could be an offensive post sigh But what can I do - not ask? I want to ask because it’s important for me :o:o
 
I’ve seen “wives, submit to your husband” taken out of context, especially by angry depressed women in sensible shoes (not that I’m saying that you are among them).

But NEVER have I seen anyone quote the next verse.

“Husbands, love your wives.”

Note that wives are not called upon to love their husbands, but merely to submit to them.

Frankly, I’d rather be loved, myself.
 
Actually, I quite frequently hear the second part hammered in, that husbands should love their wives and lay down their lives for them as Christ did. Which the presenter of such information always says leaning in, head tilted, suspiciously eyeing the crowd deeming them all cowards. But, there’s at least one in the crowd saying, ‘Promise?’

To the titular question, sure, most things are possible, right?

But I think that Love and the respect of human dignity that comes with it would trump such…wickedness.

The enemy will ever be trying to sway men’s hearts, so I don’t think it strange at all that they should commit abuses. But I find it strange that they’re seldom tackled like the diabolical assaults they are. 🤷
 
If you want to learn how to recognize men who will become overly controlling, I recommend that you read the book “Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men” (see here) by Lundy Bancroft.

When asked if there are certain groups of men who are more likely to be controlling, such as the conservative Catholic men in your question, Bancroft replies that each group has good men and controlling men, but the men in a particular group who are controlling tend to be controlling about the same aspects of the wife.
 
Every man is different. The courtship period is there for you to find out what kind of husband a man is going to be . Ask questions. Run scenarios. See what he is like in different scenarios. Get involved with him in different projects. Get to know the man. Then you’ll know. Take the Engage Encounter type retreats that are out there. Read Catholic articles and resources on marriage together , discuss. Take a proactive approach to finding a good husband.
 
Lady_Bug said:
Gosh - I’m not entirely fond of my subject title and you know what - if you are a man and this DOESN’T apply to you - then good! I am asking as a single woman.

I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I am quite conservative and it would be nice for me to share the most important views of mine if I were married. I feel that if I don’t, I lack the ability to have any real substantive conversations without feeling the frustration and the chasm that follows.

But I am worried that some Christian men may abuse the “submit to your husbands in everything” clause to be overbearing or control freaks. It’s like I don’t want a nominal or “liberal” Christian but I am starting to get worried that a conservative one will be too controlling. I keep trying to tell myself that in a true Christian marriage, this would not happen. but anyway.

How do I go about such a thing? Is seeking a devout Catholic man asking to be controlled, or are there good men that realize that the submission clause is not a license to boss your wife around? it’s good to choose a man who would be a good leader - spiritually, especially. but can such leadership be abused?

I have a feeling that this could be an offensive post sigh But what can I do - not ask? I want to ask because it’s important for me :o:o
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Hon, I know what you mean.
I have pondered the same issues.
Religious people have a temptation to become proud or dominant and this can also happen in a marriage. I’d hate to marry a guy who somehow thought less of me and my abilities as an individual person because I am a woman…
My fear was only hightened the other day when I listened to a talk by Peter Kreft on EWTN about women in the priesthood. This learned and very cheered man, whom every Catholic man seems to swollow uncritically, repulsed me so deeply with his arrogance and his speculations, taking the church hostage while he was demeaning his philosophical female opponents etc… I am not pro-women priests but on that day I thought: I am glad I am part of European Cathcolicism because some of the men overthere in America are suffocating and arrogant in their thinking…
 
I think that it also depends on the man as well, but sometimes things can sprout up when your married that you don’t see when your dating,even if your dating for a long time. You need to be careful and watch for little things-does he get mad when you spend time with your friends? Does he want you to call him all the time? Does he “suggest” you spend less time with your loved ones?

I’m not an expert by any means, but be sure to that your man understands that a real man does love his wife the way Christ loves church. That means he may provide leadership, but he never makes his woman feel like less of a person.

I know several conservative catholic men. I don’t like the way they threat women when I see them. (IE-The demand that woman wear dresses to church, the demand that woman cover their heads in church, preganant often, with little ones all over the place) True, that’s only in church, but It must lead to the home as well.
 
thanks for your insight so far -

it is a frustrating thought to deal with. because since I am the only on in my family who is so spiritual, the religious disunity perturbs me. Being unequally yoked would exacerbate the problem. Isn’t it important for the two spouses to share common values? That is the ideal way. The prospective spouse definitely needs to be on the same page regarding faith and morals. I don’t want to put myself in any position of endangering my faith by being with a nominal Catholic yet the prospect of a domineering man, as I have seen from you guys’ posts, is troubling. I am still trying to sort everything out. It’s good to read perspectives from you.
 
A person CAN be or do anything, as people we have free will.

Because a man is a practicing Catholic does not mean he is a certain personality type. When getting to know someone and discerning marriage, one should be of the same faith, of a similar set of life goals and ideals, and of a compatable personality.

How does his dad treat his mom? How does he treat other people - co workers, service people in stores and restaurants, strangers on the street? These are ways to know how he treats other people.
 
I think it depends on the couple… I mean, I’ve also seen couples where the WIFE is domineering and requires her demands are met and the husband just goes along so to not cause an upset. :rolleyes:

It takes balance, good communication, and true sacramental LOVE. Both spouses must truly look out for each others interests… and listening is the hardest part of good communication.
 
GraceDK said:
My fear was only hightened the other day when I listened to a talk by Peter Kreft on EWTN about women in the priesthood. This learned and very cheered man, whom every Catholic man seems to swollow uncritically, repulsed me so deeply with his arrogance and his speculations, taking the church hostage while he was demeaning his philosophical female opponents etc…
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Quite a dig at Catholic men, and a sweeping generalization.

I am downloading that talk, and will listen.
GraceDK said:
I am not pro-women priests but on that day I thought: I am glad I am part of European Cathcolicism because some of the men overthere in America are suffocating and arrogant in their thinking…
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The Truth of the Church is the same in the entire world, there is no difference between European Catholicism or American Catholicism, truth is truth.
 
I can see where your concern comes from. I don’t know if you watched any of the testimony in the Clark Rockefeller trial, but his ex-wife’s testimony provided an insight into an extremely controlling relationship.

In all honesty, I think that there is a potential for a man of any sort of persuasion (political, social, religious, etc.) to be controlling. So, the answer to your question is yes. This by no means characterizes all Catholic men, and I’d be willing to say that it does not characterize the vast majority of Catholic men.

Something you should take into consideration is the role that men are given by our culture/society. Men are “supposed to” show strength, confidence, fortitude. They are “supposed to” be providing and protecting.
When these qualities are distorted, they can lead to a controlling and arrogant personality. Furthermore, the distortion can lead to a perception that women are not supposed to exhibit these characteristics (which is obviously false).

I would hope that during the time before marriage, you would be able to discern the type of relationship that you and your potentially husband have. 🙂
 
I think part of it will depend on whether the man definies himself as ‘conservative Catholic’.

There are people who hold very strongly to the teachings of the Catholic Church, and do so in a way that is counter-cultural, radical, loving, and could be considered ‘conservative’ by many in the modern world. This sounds like the kind of woman you are, and the kind of man you want to meet. I suggest if you go ahead and meet like-minded men who enjoy the same things as you, or are involved in the same work within the Church as you, you won’t go far wrong here.

On the other hand, there are those who are deliberately ‘playing a part’, who enjoy the elevated and slightly alienated status that comes from being not just Catholic but ‘conservative Catholic’. This isn’t their nature, but they are unhappy with themselves, perhaps because they are still struggling against past sins in their lives and don’t have the humility to face up to them, and so they find solace in a set of rigid rules which they define as ‘conservative Catholicism’. They tend to judge others who are less rigid in their faith, and they tend to be angry and controlling. How do I know this? I used to be such a man. It was the natural way to make a ‘clean break’ from my previous life when I converted, it was a ‘club’ I could belong to, an excuse for my lack of social skills, and a cover for serious sexual sins in my past.

How to recognise the latter kind of ‘conservative Catholic’? A few tell-tale signs might include - very public penitential practices, constant complaining about modern music or the slightest innovation in the Mass, constantly bringing up conservative Church Fathers/Doctors whose views seem to contradict recent trends in Church practice (Pius IX’s Syllabus of Errors, St Leonard of Port Maurice’s The Few Number that are Saved, St Augustine’s On the Good of Marriage all spring to mind), rigid rules about dating (as an adult, refusing to hold hands or meet without a chaperone or similar extremes), constant judging and criticism of others, unable or unwilling to enjoy ‘ordinary’ or ‘popular’ pleasures like watching a movie or listening to contemporary music (everything’s got to be classical or worthy). They won’t just do all these things, they’ll go out of their way to be seen to be doing them. They don’t want a wife, they want someone who will always be around to see what a great Catholic they are. They won’t appreciate that any of your devotions are more worthy than theirs, or more suited to you, but will want you to adopt their way of being ‘conservative Catholics’, that’s a sure sign of a controlling guy.

I mean no disrespect here to anyone who appreciates classical music, traditional liturgy or conservative Catholic theology. I’m not saying you all fall into this category, I’m just giving examples, which, in a certain context, could be interpreted as signs of a certain kind of forced rigidity. Not in all circumstances, but, like ‘how to recognise an elephant’, you know when you see one.
 
What an offensive topic. Nice broad-brush painting of group of people who are surely diverse and unique. This is offensive and demeaning to men. There was not even an attempt to dignify this with a link, facts, figures, studies or even anecdotal evidence. Just a shot across the brow of personal opinion. Wow, how uncharitable and mean.

A post entitled “Must all Catholic women become nags and sex-haters” would rightly be criticized as misogynistic. This is not different, except that it lacks anyone to object.

Shame on you, and shame to those who pander to this type of hate-filled prejudice.

Poorly done.
 
You know, it all comes down to the first piece of advice I was ever given as a teenager.

Seek to marry your best friend of the opposite sex. Do not marry anyone else. Especially, don’t get “swept off your feet” by a complete stranger, where you move to the “romantic” stage before ever getting to the “friendship” stage. Be friends. Be best friends.

Marry someone you can talk to about anything at all.

And for the love of God and of all that is holy, don’t even date anyone that you’re afraid of, or who needs to be treated “a certain way” lest he (or she) “go off” as if he (or she) were a bomb; not a human being.
 
GhostMan said:
What an offensive topic. Nice broad-brush painting of group of people who are surely diverse and unique. This is offensive and demeaning to men. There was not even an attempt to dignify this with a link, facts, figures, studies or even anecdotal evidence. Just a shot across the brow of personal opinion. Wow, how uncharitable and mean.

A post entitled “Must all Catholic women become nags and sex-haters” would rightly be criticized as misogynistic. This is not different, except that it lacks anyone to object.

Shame on you, and shame to those who pander to this type of hate-filled prejudice.

Poorly done.
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What are you talking about?
why dont you find something else to get a high blood pressurre about. A post entitled: “MUST all Catholic women become nags and sex-haters” is not the same as “CAN conservative Catholic men become controlling…”.
Your idea about what is going on here is rather a projection of your own fear than an accurate description of reality.
 
*I’m married to a very conservative man, and he is not controlling at all. He has his views though, that are very very conservative. I’m not AS conservative as my husband. I think that becoming a controlling spouse has little to do with religion, (maybe for some) and really is based on their own set of past experiences that might lend them to becoming more controlling, over another person. But, that is what dating is for. I don’t believe in rushing into marriage, get to know someone, and see how he reacts in various circumstances, before marrying.

Ghostman–she was just asking a question. She didn’t say Must, she said **‘can’ ***conservative catholic men become controlling? I would say, yes, they can, but no more than any other person. Why are you so offended by the queston? :confused:
 
kage_ar;
Quite a dig at Catholic men, and a sweeping generalization.

Really, how so? To say that I have had the same concerns?

I am downloading that talk, and will listen.

Yes do so. I tend to have a critical ear whether I listen to Catholics, Jews, Atheists, Muslims or whoever… I test if their logic holds and if there is authority, wisdom and love in their argumentation. In Krefts talk I could hear neither wisdom nor love… I could hear his all-catholic audience chearing in the back ground as he gave this talk however (if we speak of the same one) but I thought too much was off topic, too much was speculative and too much was patronizing… but in a ´way which would be hard for normal people to understand (I mean people who do not have a background in theology and philosophy themselves)… It was like… a man who speaks precisely to people who wont question anything… I even felt like I was listening to one of my lutheran professors who tend to call their new and subjective ideas traditional and authentic, while they are just searching for something new to write in their scolarly books so they will get famous. I despise this kind of academia and I don’t find it appropriate for people who claim to be spokesmen for the Gospel.

The Truth of the Church is the same in the entire world, there is no difference between European Catholicism or American Catholicism, truth is truth.

True, but believe me Kage, cultures are different. I am pretty sure I am not the only European Catholic who would not buy into the rhetorics used in Peter Kreft’s talk. I think his fame is mainly an American Catholic thing. So too with the modesty topic… the way this is treated in American Catholic circles is an American Catholic-culture phenomenon.
And yes, Truth does not change, but I have met quite a few people who pretended to speak for the Catholic Church …
 
Thank you Dr. Grace. PM me with an address where I can pay the psychoanalysis bill. You’ve got me, I’m projecting. Yeah…right.

Or, I could be offended by the cowardly use of stereotypes. Did you know that in itself is controlling behavior? When we stereotype someone, we remove their uniqueness and make them part of a group, usually a negative association. We remove their personhood and demean them.

That’s what I’m objecting to.

But posting this type of explanation here is usually just casting pearls. I know that some of the people here just want to get back to man-bashing. Not all, not even most, but a vocal minority who seem to love this type of post.

I respect facts, figures, proof, scientific studies and well researched opinions. I reject “personal opinion” when applied as stereotype.

Color me unimpressed.
 
GhostMan said:
Or, I could be offended by the cowardly use of stereotypes.
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All she was asking, was whether there is any truth to the stereotype. (How does one ask whether there is any truth to a particular stereotype, without also mentioning the stereotype? 🤷 )

You have no reason to be offended, because the majority of respondents are saying “No.”
 
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