Can conservative Catholic men become controlling in marriage?

[GraceDK]

Thank you Dr. Grace. PM me with an address where I can pay the psychoanalysis bill. You’ve got me, I’m projecting. Yeah…right.

Or, I could be offended by the cowardly use of stereotypes. Did you know that in itself is controlling behavior? When we stereotype someone, we remove their uniqueness and make them part of a group, usually a negative association. We remove their personhood and demean them.

That’s what I’m objecting to.

But posting this type of explanation here is usually just casting pearls. I know that some of the people here just want to get back to man-bashing. Not all, not even most, but a vocal minority who seem to love this type of post.

I respect facts, figures, proof, scientific studies and well researched opinions. I reject “personal opinion” when applied as stereotype.

Color me unimpressed.

Dont you find it interesting Ghostman, that women here sometimes feel that women are bashed, while men sometimes feel that men are bashed… while the other side is always like: What you talking about?

This is like the palestinian-jewish conflict,two whole populations that say: we are the victims, no WE are the victims, etc…
two perspectives on one case, from two different angles from where the object looks different…

I think therefore that intention is what should be looked at… the OP was not bashing men… she was stating a legitimate concern (legitimate due to the history of violence and supression of women).

 

[Em_in_FL]

I think the OP pretty much waved off any intent to stereotype or insult, GhostMan…
I’ll just highlight exactly what she said…

Gosh - I’m not entirely fond of my subject title and you know what - if you are a man and this DOESN’T apply to you - then good! I am asking as a single woman.

I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I am quite conservative and it would be nice for me to share the most important views of mine if I were married. I feel that if I don’t, I lack the ability to have any real substantive conversations without feeling the frustration and the chasm that follows.

But I am worried that some Christian men may abuse the “submit to your husbands in everything” clause to be overbearing or control freaks. It’s like I don’t want a nominal or “liberal” Christian but I am starting to get worried that a conservative one will be too controlling. I keep trying to tell myself that in a true Christian marriage, this would not happen. but anyway.

How do I go about such a thing? Is seeking a devout Catholic man asking to be controlled, or are there good men that realize that the submission clause is not a license to boss your wife around? it’s good to choose a man who would be a good leader - spiritually, especially. but can such leadership be abused?

I** have a feeling that this could be an offensive post sigh But what can I do - not ask? I want to ask because it’s important for me **

 

[GhostMan]

I agree on the perception of bashing.

My contention on this thread, though, is that the title was intentionally attempting to steer the conversation one way - towards the stereotypes the OP wanted validated. An open minded title might have been:

“What are the warning signs of a Conservative Christian man who might be controlling”

or

“What are your personal experiences…”

Titles that asked for both positive and negative (name removed by moderator)uts, not titles designed to lead the topic down a predetermined path. This thread title was leading, at the least. I still content it is offensive by nature.

Why are we, on a board like this of all places, having discussions that are designed to cast negative aspersions to men, or women, who are living out the life that many here profess to be the most proper?

Again, there was never an attempt to present any facts or evidence, just a broad-brush. There are any number of these each week, this one just got my hackles.

 

[GraceDK]

I agree on the perception of bashing.

My contention on this thread, though, is that the title was intentionally attempting to steer the conversation one way - towards the stereotypes the OP wanted validated. An open minded title might have been:

“What are the warning signs of a Conservative Christian man who might be controlling”

or

“What are your personal experiences…”

Titles that asked for both positive and negative (name removed by moderator)uts, not titles designed to lead the topic down a predetermined path. This thread title was leading, at the least. I still content it is offensive by nature.

Why are we, on a board like this of all places, having discussions that are designed to cast negative aspersions to men, or women, who are living out the life that many here profess to be the most proper?

Again, there was never an attempt to present any facts or evidence, just a broad-brush. There are any number of these each week, this one just got my hackles.

GM,
none of us ever boasted that we were experts in rhetorics or diplomacy.
How about expecting the best instead of the worst from people… ?

Anyway… i am gone. This is already off topic

 

[Em_in_FL]

Why are we, on a board like this of all places, having discussions that are designed to cast negative aspersions to men, or women, who are living out the life that many here profess to be the most proper?

Probably because they are living out their lives according to how they think it should “properly” be done, as if by rule, rather than using rules as a guideline for LOVE, which should be the FOUNDATION of marriage.

Clearly there are couples who have issues finding balance. Bad experience or example has tainted many marriages, and yes this leads to generalizations… it’s just a clear sign that our world is pretty broken.
Instead of being insulted you could just offer up the other side of the argument (like I did in my first post here)…

 

[Cristiano]

Conservative catholic man do not become controlling in marriage!

Being a controlling person has nothing to do with religion or sex. It is possible that a control freak can find himself/herself more comfortable in a conservative surrounding because they do not like change that is not initiated by them.

Unless you look for a control freak, you are not going to marry one. They are easy to spot and they are quite different from men that are raised to be the leaders and caretakers of the family.

Just make sure that you are aware of the issues that you bring to the table before blaming a man for being controlling. I am quite suspicious of people (not talking about you) that are prone to criticize someone else through broad generalizations. It is more like creating the misgiving: " where here is smoke there is fire". That is a typical psychological fallacy that creates prejudice and reaction to it. Another one that I have seen here is creating a prejudice by damming the origin: “consider the source” (e.g. Peter Kreeft)

 

[ahollars]

I am a conservative, Catholic man. Ich bin Die Furher. npatrol:

Having said that, I married a woman that can shoot me from 300 meters away!

I completely admit that I exert my authority over her (sometimes against her will) in some areas, but not all. These areas usually revolve around subject that I have established an undeniable expertise in problem solving, primarily finances (I’m good with numbers and money), child discipline (the kind that they really fear), and home repairs (I used to wear steel-toes to work).

At the same time, she has no problem telling me to cook so she can sit down (she had a hip replaced), keeping track of appointments (she has the kids all day) , and letting me know when something cannot wait until later (again, she spends more time in the house than I do).

Our home is a co-dictatorship, with our oldest child acting as a Viceroy on occasion. The idea that one person should have their way because their right is something that the other person needs to admit that it will happen, and let it go when it does. This situation will happen on both sides, to the husband and the wife. Love is how you react when it does occur. Submission is about trust. If a wife cannot submit to her husband, then she does not trust him. Love is about sacrifice. If a husband cannot sacrifice his pride, time, health (like skipping lunch), sleep, comfort, or desires, he does not love his wife as Christ did the church. He loves himself more.

To the men offended on here…

… if the shoe fits…

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Gosh - I’m not entirely fond of my subject title and you know what - if you are a man and this DOESN’T apply to you - then good! I am asking as a single woman.

I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. I am quite conservative and it would be nice for me to share the most important views of mine if I were married. I feel that if I don’t, I lack the ability to have any real substantive conversations without feeling the frustration and the chasm that follows.

But I am worried that some Christian men may abuse the “submit to your husbands in everything” clause to be overbearing or control freaks. It’s like I don’t want a nominal or “liberal” Christian but I am starting to get worried that a conservative one will be too controlling. I keep trying to tell myself that in a true Christian marriage, this would not happen. but anyway.

How do I go about such a thing? Is seeking a devout Catholic man asking to be controlled, or are there good men that realize that the submission clause is not a license to boss your wife around? it’s good to choose a man who would be a good leader - spiritually, especially. but can such leadership be abused?

I have a feeling that this could be an offensive post sigh But what can I do - not ask? I want to ask because it’s important for me

I’m not entirely fond of the subject title either. “When did you stop beating your wife, Mr. Smith?”

What on earth makes anyone assume that a man who is

A. Conservative
B. Catholic

… would be the only kind who is ‘overly controlling?’ And who gets to define what that means?

 

[AdriannaJean]

Hon, I know what you mean.
I have pondered the same issues.
Religious people have a temptation to become proud or dominant and this can also happen in a marriage. I’d hate to marry a guy who somehow thought less of me and my abilities as an individual person because I am a woman…
My fear was only hightened the other day when I listened to a talk by Peter Kreft on EWTN about women in the priesthood. This learned and very cheered man, whom every Catholic man seems to swollow uncritically, repulsed me so deeply with his arrogance and his speculations, taking the church hostage while he was demeaning his philosophical female opponents etc… I am not pro-women priests but on that day I thought: I am glad I am part of European Cathcolicism because some of the men overthere in America are suffocating and arrogant in their thinking…

Just a question, maybe message me with the answer so as not to de-rail the thread. I, a woman, have listened to Peter Kreeft’s talk on that as well and have not found any problem with it. While he is assuredly anti-feminist (modern feminism, not equal-voting rights feminism), I did not find him to be anti-woman. I will listen to it again this afternoon so it is fresh in my mind. Would you mind explaining it to me?

 

[AdriannaJean]

As for how to tell if a man is controlling, there is only one way, date him. You will never find out in the first 6 months so don’t even try to tell yourself you know isn’t. When the excitement wears off look for warning signs such as:

• liking you better without makeup, but to the point where he doesn’t let/guilts you out of wearing it
• not wanting you to go to the gym claiming you’re perfect just the way you are. Someone who respects you would tell you that you’re perfect just the way you are, but will support you 100% in your efforts to be healthy
• not liking it when you dress up/look attractive. Look for subtle signs, he will rarely say it outright.
• using emotional blackmail or mental manipulation to get what he wants. Think sulking or getting angry over dumb things (I once had a boyfriend who yelled at me because an 11-year-old boy accidentally walked in on me getting changed.) Look for irrationality.
• Bad relationship with his mother and sisters. Though don’t take it at face value when they say that they have a good relationship. Watch them fight, if he respects them when he is angry then he will respect you when he’s angry. If he turns into a monster, that’s what’ll happen with you eventually.

These are warning signs for any man, regardless of where he sits on the political spectrum or what his religion may be. All the conservative Catholic men I know are amazing husbands. Be careful not to stereotype, but also be careful not to trust someone too quickly.

 

[Captain_America]

I’ve been married ten years now and have never thrown out the “submit to me” card.

I don’t think normal decisionmaking in a marriage runs that way.

 

[Lady_Bug]

Look anyone who got offended here. GET offended then!

I asked this because I am the only really spiritual person in my family and my father thinks I’m too spiritual and that “religious” people are bad. I’m asking this because I WANT a conservative man. We were discussing my preferences in a marriage partner and when he found out that I want someone with the same values (i.e. Christian with high morals), he equates it with a man who is overbearing and controlling and fanatic. I tried telling him that a religious person doesn’t have to be a good person but conversely, a good person will have a degree of religiosity to them - and that many bad people do NOT have enough God in their life, etc.

So I wanted to ask this question to PREVENT myself from getting into a situation in which I’m overly-controlled by a “conservative” man YET who has the same morals and faith as me. I DO NOT want a liberal or nominal man either. In relation to the rest of modern society, I WOULD be considered “fanatic.” In relation to someone who is spiritual, I lack that fervor, but I still care deeply about maintaining a proper relationship to God.

Hence there’s why I am asking this.

If there’s any consolation (and I’m sure it’s not for those who are impervious to reconciliation), I’m sure there are tons of men who are scared sick of the thought of quarrelsome wives, so it’s a two-way street.

I’m sorry that I did offend but I have a feeling my apology won’t matter

 

[Lady_Bug]

I agree on the perception of bashing.

My contention on this thread, though, is that the title was intentionally attempting to steer the conversation one way - towards the stereotypes the OP wanted validated. An open minded title might have been:

“What are the warning signs of a Conservative Christian man who might be controlling”

or

“What are your personal experiences…”

Titles that asked for both positive and negative (name removed by moderator)uts, not titles designed to lead the topic down a predetermined path. This thread title was leading, at the least. I still content it is offensive by nature.

Why are we, on a board like this of all places, having discussions that are designed to cast negative aspersions to men, or women, who are living out the life that many here profess to be the most proper?

Again, there was never an attempt to present any facts or evidence, just a broad-brush. There are any number of these each week, this one just got my hackles.

GhostMan I’m not perfect - it’s easy to say in hindsight that you would have said such and such for a title but gee, I made a mistake. If you’re so offended by the idea of someone being controlling, then don’t complain so much when people try to say they’re not intending to offend you.

 

[Cajun_Girl]

When I went to college, I was surrounded by Catholic men. Here are some of the qualities that I noticed them to have:

They easily made friendships with women.

They opened doors, carried lunch trays, sent cards, and generally acted very respectful towards woman, whether they were friends or girlfriends.

If one invited you to see a movie in his room, he actually watched the movie. This was not a ploy to see how far he could go.

They respected my opinions and treated me like an intelligent person.

They tended to date with marriage in mind.

Occasionally, I did meet men of a different sort. Their attitude was very pompous: “I’m a good Catholic, and you’re a good Catholic, so we must be good for each other.” Another attitude was: “God has revealed to me that we are meant for each other.” They had a tendency to come on way too strong, leaving multiple messages on the answering machine, befriending all of your friends, even charming your parents, although you’ve already made it clear that you are not interested. They tended to have a politician’s smile. I remember one who would showed up uninvited to a wedding, sat next to my friend in church even though she didn’t encourage him, and found another friend’s phone number on an Adoration list and called her. I wouldn’t say that they were dangerous in the way that a stalker is dangerous, but they gave you a bad feeling. The good news is that this sort of man is VERY easy to spot. We learned very quickly how to avoid them.

I didn’t marry a Catholic, but my husband is a conservative Christian. He has all of the good qualities that I listed above. I would say that you have nothing to fear, just so long as you pay attention to the man’s character. This is no different than dating within any other group of men.

 

[kage_ar]

Look anyone who got offended here. GET offended then!

I asked this because I am the only really spiritual person in my family and my father thinks I’m too spiritual and that “religious” people are bad.

It is sad that your father is presenting his bigotted ideas to you. Some might feel that your father is attempting to dominate and control you, therefore, you fear this in a husband.

Know that Christians are called to love, to sacrificial love, and that many Christians take that seriously. Prayers that your father comes to know the love of Christ.

 

[Lady_Bug]

Heck, I’m even willing to reword my title to something more appropriate now that I realized that I could have worded it better. But the cat is out of the bag now and it’s too late.

 

[Lady_Bug]

It is sad that your father is presenting his bigotted ideas to you. Some might feel that your father is attempting to dominate and control you, therefore, you fear this in a husband.

actually kage-ar you have it right on. THAT is the only thing I’m worried about.

 

[Cristiano]

actually kage-ar you have it right on. THAT is the only thing I’m worried about.

I am sorry to say but we tend to marry what is familiar to us.

You will probably be attracted to someone like your father because it will be a familiar scenario; however, your intelligence will help you in being discriminating when you will date. The only suggestion is to date for a long period of time and to look at red flags as caused by something that will not change with marriage. At one point your intellect will go against your feelings, do not make the mistake of trusting only one side of yourself. God gave you a heart and a brain, if you will use both to choose your mate you will be fine.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Heck, I’m even willing to reword my title to something more appropriate now that I realized that I could have worded it better. But the cat is out of the bag now and it’s too late.

Suggestion for re-wording of the title: Can conservative Catholic men and women sin?

Answer: yes, we can sin. We do sin, (just as most every other adult member of the human race with the exception of Jesus and Mary.) However, we don’t commit every sin, and sometimes we even overcome our tendency towards certain sins.

Not everyone is inclined towards the same sins. I suspect that conservative Catholic men who are striving towards holiness are* less* likely to suffer from being “control-freaks” since they realize God is ultimately The One in control, not them. In contrast, many non-religious men and women have the tendency towards being excessively controlling in ways that they fail to recognize. (Note that contraception is all about trying to control birth–or perhaps more specifically about controlling sex by separating it from baby-making.)

Perhaps you may fear men becoming overcontroling from some people in your past and therefore worry about that as you seek a husband. I suggest that you seek a conservative Catholic man since that is what you desire. If you notice that the particular man you are dating has a tendency towards being too controlling, search for a different conservative Catholic man. But to write off the type of man you desire because your non-spiritual family members warned you against conservative religous men might be give the person or persons who planted that thought in your head more control in selecting your husband that they deserves.

 

[Lady_Bug]

Suggestion for re-wording of the title: Can conservative Catholic men and women sin?

Answer: yes, we can sin. We do sin, (just as most every other adult member of the human race with the exception of Jesus and Mary.) However, we don’t commit every sin, and sometimes we even overcome our tendency towards certain sins.

Not everyone is inclined towards the same sins. I suspect that conservative Catholic men who are striving towards holiness are* less* likely to suffer from being “control-freaks” since they realize God is ultimately The One in control, not them. In contrast, many non-religious men and women have the tendency towards being excessively controlling in ways that they fail to recognize. (Note that contraception is all about trying to control birth–or perhaps more specifically about controlling sex by separating it from baby-making.)

Perhaps you may fear men becoming overcontroling from some people in your past and therefore worry about that as you seek a husband. I suggest that you seek a conservative Catholic man since that is what you desire. If you notice that the particular man you are dating has a tendency towards being too controlling, search for a different conservative Catholic man. But to write off the type of man you desire because your non-spiritual family members warned you against conservative religous men might be give the person or persons who planted that thought in your head more control in selecting your husband that they deserves.

Hi, I agree so much with what you’re saying in the bold there. I don’t mind my family’s concern for me to choose a man that will treat me right - but when it comes to choosing a spouse - as much as I’d like to say it, I can’t go to my parents for everything I’d like to talk about regarding marriage. They are not morons but they cannot whatsoever click with me on a spiritual level and that is the important thing for me - if they cannot click this way - they may be missing some critical ingredients that create a greater likelihood for a stable marriage. Dad feels that since his marriage worked out ok why shouldn’t anyone else’s but there was a LOT of religion fights back in the day (I was partially involved sigh) even though things have mellowed out over the years. I simply do NOT want any semblance of those types of religion fights in a household of my own! I know partially from experience what I am looking out for and what I want to avoid.

If I could edit the title of my OP I would but somehow the editing function doesn’t work for me - maybe too much time has passed.