Can conservative Catholic men become controlling in marriage?

[rpp]

Having done divorce work for 12 years, I ahve seen controlling men and controlling women;** women who use their brains only to keep their ears far enough apart to make sure their earrings dangle**, men who are oblivious to the fact that she is a person, and so many other stripes as to wonder truly what God hath wrought.

I think I dated her for a while!!

Beware not ony the control freak, but also the pit all too many women fall into "After marriage [he will change] *. Keep you wits about you in dating; see what type of person he is; see who his friends really are; pay attention to his parents (that is, worry less about whether or not you are pleasing (to) them and watch how they interact. Not all men follow in the footsteps of their fathers; nor are all men molded completely by their mothers. But both parents can have significant impact on how a man perceives his spouse; his greatest lessons on mariage came from how they treated each other.

Don’t let your emotion completely control your vision. Go slowly. and for your sake, presume that what you see is what you get, and it ain’ta gonna change.*

Okay, now that I have caught my breath, this is all very good advice.

 

[chevalier]

Having done divorce work for 12 years, I ahve seen controlling men and controlling women; women who use their brains only to keep their ears far enough apart to make sure their earrings dangle, men who are oblivious to the fact that she is a person, and so many other stripes as to wonder truly what God hath wrought.

Beware not ony the control freak, but also the pit all too many women fall into "After marriage [he will change] *. Keep you wits about you in dating; see what type of person he is; see who his friends really are; pay attention to his parents (that is, worry less about whether or not you are pleasing (to) them and watch how they interact. Not all men follow in the footsteps of their fathers; nor are all men molded completely by their mothers. But both parents can have significant impact on how a man perceives his spouse; his greatest lessons on mariage came from how they treated each other.

Don’t let your emotion completely control your vision. Go slowly. and for your sake, presume that what you see is what you get, and it ain’ta gonna change.*

Yeah, and make sure he doesn’t write “JD” or “LLM” after his name. That’s not going to change after wedding, either.

 

[OLHope]

You gentleman are so goofy. Thanks for lightening up the thread!

 

[otjm]

Yeah, and make sure he doesn’t write “JD” or “LLM” after his name. That’s not going to change after wedding, either.

You taking a swipe at me just because I was a liar?

I mean, lawyer???

 

[chevalier]

You taking a swipe at me just because I was a liar?

I mean, lawyer???

It takes one to know one.

 

[EspositoJoe]

LOL! That’s my best friend’s nickname for me (Elvis Presley’s right-hand man was Joe Esposito). I believe it’s actually an Italian name, where as I am Scottish by descent.

Machismo or ‘macho’ as it typically appears refers to manhood or toughness, though it can be stretched to describe a sort of chauvinistic attitude. To be politically incorrect, there are just some cultures generalized as being less than polite to women. I’m stopping now, before I get into real trouble!

Best,

Joe

 

[Norseman82]

So I wanted to ask this question to PREVENT myself from getting into a situation in which I’m overly-controlled by a “conservative” man YET who has the same morals and faith as me.

Then my suggestion would be to assert yourself early in the relationship so that you don’t become a doormat. Stand up for yourself if you feel treated wrongly. Make it clear that you expect to be treated with equal dignity.

 

[chevalier]

Then my suggestion would be to assert yourself early in the relationship so that you don’t become a doormat. Stand up for yourself if you feel treated wrongly. Make it clear that you expect to be treated with equal dignity.

If you have to assert that, the relationship is probably not worth it anyway.

 

[PILY_MX]

Good question…

Conservative and regular men can become controlling… all men… somehow, you get to know the person while dating but in the end you never know what’s gonna happen. But, if he knows you are a lady who respects herself and won’t accept abuse… he won’t be into you since you are not a target for control. I guess he’ll go where he can be controlling and get away with it.

Many times, specially in first world countries feminism has grown out of control and many times women get confused about the role men and women have in marriage which is totally different from the work place. And they take the respect a woman has for her husband as a submissive position and any demands from her husband as control.

I’m mexican, born and raced in a very conservative household… mm… a happy home. I lived in USA and Canada as a student so… I could notice the differences on the men women roles and I noticed women taking the meaning of freedom and selfrespect and feminism as a green light to do as they pleased. I thing we as women should never take the regular duties and respect of a wife for her husband and her home as being put in a pejorative position but… more like a mature women who knows God made her a woman who demands respect but also knows how to be " A WOMAN".

God and the Bible had always give women a special place… MARY… The entire salvation plan laid on her hands… God was kind enough to ask her if she wanted to be the mother of God. Because of her… Jesus did the first Miracle… she said to Jesus; The time has come… and to the people at the wedding: Do as he says!. So she had courage and people respected her.

But still, she was happy to be a woman… and did’t took a men’s role… never. Always femenine… courrageos and proud, loving and tender … at the same time.

God made us Men and Women so we could help eachother… not overlap eachothers roles… specialy at home… and with the people you love.

Just an idea… of course there are many ways to see the conservative-controlling issue… This is just one of them. My… :twocents: !!

 

[ashmart]

Ladybug…
I totally know what you mean with all of the concerns you are having, and of all the things that everyone is saying, I only have onething to say to you: Give it to God. Let go of it. Trust that HE will direct you to who you need. Trust that HE is preparing someone for you, just like He is preparing you for him.

I also definitely recommend a few books I’ve read that will give you GREAT advice on this subject, especially giving your relationships up to God:

1. “When God writes your Love Story” by Leslie and Eric Ludy.
2. “For Women Only”

And a book that will help you understand your Beauty and God-given role as a Woman, definitely read “Captivating” by Staci Eldrige.

May God bless you with your relationships, and may He give you the grace to Trust completely in Him!

 

[EvelynEVF]

Pily Mx makes a great point when he notes that controlling men will give you wide berth from the very start if you present yourself as a strong woman.

The abusive ones look for easy targets, and if you cut them that kind of slack in the interest of getting along, they will take it and run with it.

And when we’re with someone who is trustworthy in that way, then it’s safe to be womanly in the sense he’s talking about.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have often heard this piece of advice: carefully observe the family relationships of the person you are dating. Look at how his father treats his mother, and at how he treats his mother and sisters. Men’s attitudes towards women are often learned from their fathers. This also goes the other way, of course, for the opposite sex. Family dynamics can be very revealing.

And if a person is controlling while you are dating, that is a clue as to what it is going to be like after marrige, and that type of behavior is very difficult to change.

 

[whatevergirl]

I have often heard this piece of advice: carefully observe the family relationships of the person you are dating. Look at how his father treats his mother, and at how he treats his mother and sisters. Men’s attitudes towards women are often learned from their fathers. This also goes the other way, of course, for the opposite sex. Family dynamics can be very revealing.

And if a person is controlling while you are dating, that is a clue as to what it is going to be like after marrige, and that type of behavior is very difficult to change.

**Couldn’t agree more! I believe in observing how someone treats his/her parents. If a man is disrespectful and demeaning to his own mom? Don’t continue dating a man like that–because you will be next.

Same holds true for women. If a woman is demeaning and rude to her parents…she will most likely be rude to her husband.

Don’t think you’re going to be the one to magically transform the person. If someone mistreats his/her parents…has an unhealthy relationship with parents, siblings…it is a red flag.

Now if a man grows up with a dad who mistreats his mom, it is possible that he won’t take that characteristic into his marriage, I wouldn’t discount someone automatically because of how the parents get along. But, if the person you are dating is rude, demeaning, unkind, etc to his/her parents–that is a flaming red flag, in my eyes, to not continue dating the person. Just my two cents. **

 

[slyboots]

I read an article just now which I think says a great deal of good. Maybe this is not the place to put it but I am going to.
I do not believe it is conservatism that makes a man ( or woman) controlling but a personality flaw which can be helped by prayer, work and time.
Here is the website and article. I found the last paragraph slightly chilling.

sanctepater.blogspot.com/2009/06/new-catholic-manliness.html

(Last paragraph)
It may one day be recognized that the growing use and acceptance of military language to define manhood within the Church turned out to be not just apt but critical. For there is one religion that has no problem attracting and keeping male followers. Its wholly transcendent God doesn’t desire spiritual conjugality with His people. Its leaders don’t preach mercy, or celibacy, or strength through weakness; they do not have to contend with the paradox of the Cross. And the zealous adherents of Islam do not turn the other cheek.

 

[chevalier]

I don’t appreciate the “satyrical” images using holy symbols. Some of those are too much. What reverence does it instill if those symbols are used as objects in ridiculing the lack of reverence? It should be handled in a different way.

As for the paragraph about Islam, I don’t know what to think about it. We shouldn’t take after them and at the same time, they aren’t an excuse for us to keep in order that we can oppose them - at least not beyond what it takes to defend ourselves from an actual threat.

 

[slyboots]

Pardon? Satrical? How so?

 

[chevalier]

Pardon? Satrical? How so?

Scroll down to “when liturgical dancers get raptured” and later. I understand where the sentiment is coming from, but in my view it goes too far and I don’t appreciate the use of holy symbols or references in such jokes. Come to think of it, I didn’t appreciate putting the, “save the liturgy! save the world” banner in the Pope’s hands, either. It’s up to the Pope himself to say what he thinks on the subject. And then we get, “vegetarian: an old Indian word for bad hunter.”

 

[EvelynEVF]

Oh! You’re talking about all the stuff in the right sidebar, not the article itself. I had to go looking. Some of it makes me rolls my eyes, but I will say that Fr. Z’s face on spiderman is pretty cool.

I liked the article. I appreciated very much that he didn’t try to say that girls are not suited to be altar servers or are somehow lesser, but that the real problem is that boys that age will disappear instead of sharing that function with girls. Progress does not mean that every last thing has to be coed.

I remember when I was in college, I spent the first three years in a very small (less than a hundred) women’s dorm. The fourth year the administration insisted it had to be coed. Life was coed enough for us. It wasn’t a religious school, and not all of us were morally conservative, but we all wanted a single-gender haven to be ourselves. We could put on our pajamas and hang out in the lounge watching movies without having to worry about modesty and all that. That’s why as adults, we have Girls’ Nights Out. Nobody gets drunk, but we need time with other women.

Knowing that women are generally better at this sort of networking, I think we would be wise to help men in general to develop this kind of social/kinship thing, and if it means getting out of their way in the sacristy, I’m glad to make the sacrifice.

 

[slyboots]

I tend to ignore the side cartoons and such. Until you brought it up I did not see them at all. They are silliness, But the article is good I think.

 

[chevalier]

I remember when I was in college, I spent the first three years in a very small (less than a hundred) women’s dorm. The fourth year the administration insisted it had to be coed. Life was coed enough for us. It wasn’t a religious school, and not all of us were morally conservative, but we all wanted a single-gender haven to be ourselves. We could put on our pajamas and hang out in the lounge watching movies without having to worry about modesty and all that. That’s why as adults, we have Girls’ Nights Out. Nobody gets drunk, but we need time with other women.

I so hear you. I’ve had moments in my life when most of my friends have been female but I’ve always had a best buddy that’s been a guy. Recently, it’s more like three of us or four if you include my younger brother. Our kind of networking is lining up for kebab at midnight in a bad alley, but it’s very important to us.

At work (first and last time I was on salary), my female roomie claimed half the law firm wanted to go out with me and I was rather fond of the ladies, but there was also an unbreakable trio of homies from the lower echelons of the litigation dept (we greeted each other invariably “yo, homie!” no matter who was listening) until they thanked two of us for participation.

I couldn’t possibly have everything coed.