Can doing what I Assume is wrong be a sin?

[Angel7]

Can doing what I assume is wrong be a sin?
What if they aren’t mortal sins or sins at all, but you assumed they were at the time you commited them, but realized they weren’t after you commited them.

For example: If someone believes eating ice cream is a mortal sin, but does it any way, has he sinned? Even though eating ice cream isn’t a sin.

What if it was out of peer pressure.

I’ll give some personal examples now.

My school was having a Lock-Down. (if someone breaks into the school we hide somewhere in the class, and stay quiet), (I’m pretty sure it was a drill for practice, and not a real one because I didn’t hear about anything happening. [also, would hearing stuff like “It was just a drill” be considered listening to gossip? because there was a time when I thought listening to anything about anyone was gossip])

So at the beginning of the Lock-Down, I think I wanted to make a joke about not having enough room or something, and half way between the sentance I stopped because I remembered I wasn’t supposed to talk during a lock down, but I didn’t want to seem wierd so I finished what I was saying.
Was this a sin?

And, I have talked during Fire Drills also.

 

[jmcrae]

If you just happen to overhear something, it’s not “listening to gossip” - “listening to gossip” is when you are encouraging someone to tell you things that they shouldn’t say about another person, or listening instead of walking away when someone you’re talking to starts to say mean things about someone else.

As far as talking during a fire drill or a lock-down, the reason it’s important to be quiet is so that everyone can hear any instructions that might be given to you (which they might not hear at all, if they are listening to you talk, and which you won’t hear, because it is impossible to both talk and listen at the same time) and since any instructions given would be in order to save your life, it’s very important to be able to hear them, and, in the case of the lock-down, so that the bad guys don’t find you, by hearing the sound of your voice.

Children’s voices carry a really long way - you’ve probably noticed that you can hear when there are kids in the playground, even when you’ve got the windows shut - which is normally a good thing, because it helps their parents know where they are at all times - but if you are not wanting someone to find you, then it’s really, really important to keep very still and quiet.

I don’t think you sinned because it seems as if you weren’t really thinking about what you were doing - but I think it would be good for you to practice being quiet sometimes, so that when the need arises, you’ll be able to do it well.

 

[JM3]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

PART THREE: LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION ONE MAN’S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT
CHAPTER ONE THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON
Article 8 SIN

III. The Different Kinds of Sins

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. the root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.

 

[Brighitte]

I think for something to be a mortal sin it has to be wrong, you have to know it’s wrong, and choose to do it anyways, since eating ice cream is not a bad sin then eating it thinking it’s bad is not a mortal sin, but it might be a sin just because you chose to do something you knew (knew incorrectly) was wrong. But hey, maybe not, maybe the same rules apply to a regular sin as they do to a mortal one, the act itself has to be wrong. Hmmm…

 

[The_Word]

Can doing what I assume is wrong be a sin?
What if they aren’t mortal sins or sins at all, but you assumed they were at the time you commited them, but realized they weren’t after you commited them.

For example: If someone believes eating ice cream is a mortal sin, but does it any way, has he sinned? Even though eating ice cream isn’t a sin.

What if it was out of peer pressure.

I’ll give some personal examples now.

My school was having a Lock-Down. (if someone breaks into the school we hide somewhere in the class, and stay quiet), (I’m pretty sure it was a drill for practice, and not a real one because I didn’t hear about anything happening. [also, would hearing stuff like “It was just a drill” be considered listening to gossip? because there was a time when I thought listening to anything about anyone was gossip])

So at the beginning of the Lock-Down, I think I wanted to make a joke about not having enough room or something, and half way between the sentance I stopped because I remembered I wasn’t supposed to talk during a lock down, but I didn’t want to seem wierd so I finished what I was saying.
Was this a sin?

And, I have talked during Fire Drills also.

Fear comes from the genetic sins of your flesh so fear alone is sinning. Sinners have genetic sin traits that gives power to deceive their thoughts so anything they think is a sin. Any words they write or speak is a lie because sinners can’t speak the truth. It’s impossible unless they are made sinless saints by God. God has to change the genetic traits in your DNA to stop this power to deceive you.

 

[rwoehmke]

Fear comes from the genetic sins of your flesh so fear alone is sinning. Sinners have genetic sin traits that gives power to deceive their thoughts so anything they think is a sin. Any words they write or speak is a lie because sinners can’t speak the truth. It’s impossible unless they are made sinless saints by God. God has to change the genetic traits in your DNA to stop this power to deceive you.

So the Isaiah gift called fear of the Lord is a sin? Ridiculous! Don’t be loading your misconceptions on this poor young person.

 

[The_Word]

So the Isaiah gift called fear of the Lord is a sin? Ridiculous! Don’t be loading your misconceptions on this poor young person.

Sinners who fear the Lord are the chosen ones who start out as sinners. God uses commands to get them to confess and repent of their sins and then forgives them. This fear is like the fear you have of your parents while growing up until you get to the point where you don’t fear their discipline anymore.

Once a chosen one has become a sinless saint, he will never fear the Lord or anything else.

A sinner who is not a chosen one, will reject God with fear caused by his genetic sins of the flesh. The battle of Armegeddon is the Word of God against the sinful flesh of man. The earth’s crust is going to melt by hot lava and destroy everything on earth to get rid of the last flesh.

With this knowledge, you can see that it’s the flesh that fears God and it’s very easy for us saints to see this fear. It comes out in the words you use and your rejection of God.

 

[John7]

Once a chosen one has become a sinless saint

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[The_Word]

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

If you want to be born of God and have the knowledge of God, which is the truth, then you have to be sinless. It’s not a good idea to challenge God about the Bible because he’s the only one who can interpret the scriptures.

1 John 1:
7: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:
3: And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
29: If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that every one who does right is born of him.*

1 John 3:
6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.
9: No one born of God commits sin; for God’s nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

1 John 5:
2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3: For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
18: We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Galations 5:
24: And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Romans 6:
20: When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21: But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death.
22: But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.
23: For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[jmcrae]

If you want to be born of God and have the knowledge of God, which is the truth, then you have to be sinless. It’s not a good idea to challenge God about the Bible because he’s the only one who can interpret the scriptures.

1 John 1:
7: but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:
3: And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
29: If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that every one who does right is born of him.*

1 John 3:
6: No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him.
9: No one born of God commits sin; for God’s nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God.

1 John 5:
2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3: For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
18: We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Galations 5:
24: And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Romans 6:
20: When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21: But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death.
22: But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.
23: For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

What on earth does any of this have to do with the OP?

 

[John7]

If you want to be born of God and have the knowledge of God, which is the truth, then you have to be sinless. It’s not a good idea to challenge God about the Bible because he’s the only one who can interpret the scriptures.

Like the book says kiddo

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I refer you to Romans 14:14: " … to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean … " In other words, if you think that something IS sinful and you willfully do that sinful act, then you have indeed sinned. For example, if I am under the impression that you dislike being called by your middle name and I call you by your middle name, then my INTENT was to do something that you disliked – whether or not you dislike it or not, has no bearing on it.

If I am under the impression that ‘X’ is a sin – something that offends God, and I decide to do it, then I have indeed sinned.

 

[edward_george]

I refer you to Romans 14:14: " … to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean … " In other words, if you think that something IS sinful and you willfully do that sinful act, then you have indeed sinned. For example, if I am under the impression that you dislike being called by your middle name and I call you by your middle name, then my INTENT was to do something that you disliked – whether or not you dislike it or not, has no bearing on it.

If I am under the impression that ‘X’ is a sin – something that offends God, and I decide to do it, then I have indeed sinned.

If you think something is a sin, when objectively it is not, then to do that act in and of itself cannot be sinful. If, however, you do something that you think is a sin simply to offend God, whether or not the act is objectively sinful, your intention is a sinful one.

-ACEGC

 

[Sir_Knight]

You can not sin by accident. If you think that something is a sin and are willing to do it, then you have sinned. Romans 14:14 supports this. If I am under the impression that I have to fast today and I intentionally decide against doing it – then I have chosen the sinful path. To say otherwise, is to say that Paul’s instructions to the Romans was in error.

 

[wjp984]

I gather either two possibilities from this:

A) It is a sin and therefore the lesson is to be on the safe side and think nothing is a sin and therefore you will sin less (a really bad way to think) or

B) It is not a sin because what is not wrong cannot be a sin regardless of what you think–that is just being scruptulous.

I have heard there were saints who suffered from the scrupples and woud not receive communion and then in Confession could not gather the correct words because it was God’s way of saying that they were being too scruptulous.

I always like to compare moral law to secular law since more often than not, the two are the same. Legally you cannot be convicted of a crime that is not a crime regardless of your intent. I think the same is true for a sin that is not a sin unless…

You are doing it deliberately to offend God.

To conclude I will give an example. One chooses to eat meat on a Friday not to offend God, but because it is no longer enforced. Whether one believes that this is still a sin today does not change whether it really is or not. It just is not a sin because it is not enforced anymore and that would be applied universally. The person who eats meat and believes that it was a sin has not in fact sin even if they think they did.

 

[Neithan]

I think for something to be a mortal sin it has to be wrong, you have to know it’s wrong, and choose to do it anyways, since eating ice cream is not a bad sin then eating it thinking it’s bad is not a mortal sin, but it might be a sin just because you chose to do something you knew (knew incorrectly) was wrong.

This is my understanding also; if something isn’t actually a sin, but you believe it is, and you freely violate your conscience, then you’ve sinned. Not mortal, but still a sin. If you’re coerced into sin (peer pressure) that would lessen your guilt, but you’d still be guilty unless you were outright forced to do it.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I gather either two possibilities from this:

A) It is a sin and therefore the lesson is to be on the safe side and think nothing is a sin and therefore you will sin less (a really bad way to think) or

B) It is not a sin because what is not wrong cannot be a sin regardless of what you think–that is just being scruptulous.

I have heard there were saints who suffered from the scrupples and woud not receive communion and then in Confession could not gather the correct words because it was God’s way of saying that they were being too scruptulous.

I always like to compare moral law to secular law since more often than not, the two are the same. Legally you cannot be convicted of a crime that is not a crime regardless of your intent. I think the same is true for a sin that is not a sin unless…

You are doing it deliberately to offend God.

To conclude I will give an example. One chooses to eat meat on a Friday not to offend God, but because it is no longer enforced. Whether one believes that this is still a sin today does not change whether it really is or not. It just is not a sin because it is not enforced anymore and that would be applied universally. The person who eats meat and believes that it was a sin has not in fact sin even if they think they did.

What is the definition of sin? It is an offense against God. If one is going to do something which they believe (whether correctly or incorrectly), prior to doing it, that is going to offend God, then they have deliberately chosen an action which has, as one of the consequences, to offend God. For that reason, it IS a sin.

Going back to your meat example. If I think that I have to abstain from meat today and not to do so is a sin and I intentionally decide to eat meat, knowing (incorrectly) that it is sin, then I have sinned. If I go to McDonalds and buy a Big Mac and recall AFTERWARD that I am to abstain, then I have not sinned because I did not intent to sin. But if I am standing in line thinking that I can’t eat meat and I order the Big Mac anyway, then I have sinned because I choose what I believed to be a sinful action.

I, again, refer you to Romans 14:14 – *" … to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean … " – *in other words, if somebody THINKS that something IS a sin, then for THAT person, that thing IS a sin. Scripture is very clear on this.

 

[Sir_Knight]

If you think something is a sin, when objectively it is not, then to do that act in and of itself cannot be sinful. If, however, you do something that you think is a sin simply to offend God, whether or not the act is objectively sinful, your intention is a sinful one.

-ACEGC

If I think that something is a sin, then I know that the consequences of doing that action will offend God and doing that action will be a sin for that reason. As I said earlier, then intent has to be there. One can not sin by accident.

 

[Bookcat]

As some have noted (Mr Knight)…yes one can commit a mortal sin believing that something is a grave matter…or one can commit a venial sin believing something is a venial matter.

For mortal sin one needs grave matter (in this case the person is willing to commit what they believe is grave anyway), full knowledge and deliberate consent.

That being said I must add:

A person with a difficulty with scruples or with various degrees of scrupulosity needs to follow their confessor and the principles given for scruples!

They are in a different boat than one with a regular conscience…and need to follow their confessor and those principles given them.

For they fear or even believe all sorts of things are grave or are sinful all the time…when such are not…they need to not be thinking everything is a sin…or a mortal sin…for they mistake their “fear” for their conscience. They must learn to act against their scruples…their fears…and to even do what they fear is sin but is actually NOT --with the guidance of their confessor / director…and thus they do not “act against conscience here” (as Paul was referring to)…and sin…but act under the advice -direction of their confessor (or other good formation-direction)…and are doing a good thing…conquering their scruples!

 

[edward_george]

If I think that something is a sin, then I know that the consequences of doing that action will offend God and doing that action will be a sin for that reason. As I said earlier, then intent has to be there. One can not sin by accident.

I’m not saying that you can sin by accident. What I am saying is that certain actions are not objectively sinful, even if we might think they are. If I think that eating a candy bar is a sin, even though it is not under the circumstances, then it is still not a sin. If I do an action, whether sinful or not, and intend to offend God in so doing, my intention is sinful. For every action there is the gravity of the action and the disposition of the agent.

-ACEGC