S
STT
Guest
God is pure actuality. Option is potential (until decision is made). Hence God cannot decide because there is no potentiality in him.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
God is not limited to human definitions. In fact, God is not limited at all.
W
Wesrock
Guest
God never weighed any possibilities. He simply acts. A being of intellect that acts according to its will that has its end in his own goodness is something that still acts freely and not because it’s been forced to.
The only objection I can see is if you deny man has free will because he always chooses what seems most good (not necessarily morally) each and every moment.
You keep saying God cannot “decide,” but that word implies a change from indecision to decision. In that case, God does not decide because there is no such movement within God, but he still wills according to his goodness. He is master of His own acts. He wills it of His own accord.
The only objection I can see is if you deny man has free will because he always chooses what seems most good (not necessarily morally) each and every moment.
You keep saying God cannot “decide,” but that word implies a change from indecision to decision. In that case, God does not decide because there is no such movement within God, but he still wills according to his goodness. He is master of His own acts. He wills it of His own accord.
Pretty much, yes, as decision is a process. He is described as Pure Act; he does not have to weigh options and perform one action vs. another.God is pure actuality. Option is potential (until decision is made). Hence God cannot decide because there is no potentiality in him.
We have to express concepts in terms of process and linear progression (“at first there was God…then he formulated an Idea of himself…then the love between the Father and Son spirates the Holy Spirit…”) but that is purely our problem, not God’s simply because we MUST work within our linear existence. God is not bound by that.
So again, there is no potentiality in God, there is no movement in God, God is immutable and is immutability is absolute. Pure Act.
W
Wesrock
Guest
For reference, Aquinas speaks to these issues in Summa Contra Gentiles, Book 1, chapters 82, 86, 87, and 88.
dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles.htm
It’s too much to copy and paste.
dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles.htm
It’s too much to copy and paste.
S
STT
Guest
But this is clearly stated that there is a potency in will of God (book one, chapter 82): “For, if with respect to certain objects the will of God is not determined to them, it would seem to be disposed to opposites. But every power that is disposed to opposites is in a manner in potency, since “to opposites” is a species of the contingent possible.** Therefore, there is potency in the will of God**, which will consequently not be the substance of God, in which there is no potency, as was shown above.”For reference, Aquinas speaks to these issues in Summa Contra Gentiles, Book 1, chapters 82, 86, 87, and 88.
dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles.htm
It’s too much to copy and paste.
W
Wesrock
Guest
Aquinas is starting with erroneous conclusions people might draw at this point after reading the previous chapters. He does not believe what you just quoted to be true. If you continue reading in Chapter 82, paragraph 6, he starts to refute them. “[6] But of these conclusions none necessarily follows . . .”But this is clearly stated that there is a potency in will of God (book one, chapter 82): “For, if with respect to certain objects the will of God is not determined to them, it would seem to be disposed to opposites. But every power that is disposed to opposites is in a manner in potency, since “to opposites” is a species of the contingent possible.** Therefore, there is potency in the will of God**, which will consequently not be the substance of God, in which there is no potency, as was shown above.”
S
STT
Guest
But we have a problem (what is raised in OP) if we accept that divine will is pure actual.Aquinas is starting with erroneous conclusions people might draw at this point after reading the previous chapters. He does not believe what you just quoted to be true. If you continue reading in Chapter 82, paragraph 6, he starts to refute them. “[6] But of these conclusions none necessarily follows . . .”
W
Wesrock
Guest
Edit: I have a better question.
Is it a problem?
Is it a problem?
S
STT
Guest
Yes. Option is potential until it becomes actual, when decision is made, hence God cannot have any option if His will is actual.Edit: I have a better question.
Is it a problem?
S
STT
Guest
Did God have any options to create universe or not?Pretty much, yes, as decision is a process. He is described as Pure Act; he does not have to weigh options and perform one action vs. another.
We have to express concepts in terms of process and linear progression (“at first there was God…then he formulated an Idea of himself…then the love between the Father and Son spirates the Holy Spirit…”) but that is purely our problem, not God’s simply because we MUST work within our linear existence. God is not bound by that.
So again, there is no potentiality in God, there is no movement in God, God is immutable and is immutability is absolute. Pure Act.
W
Wesrock
Guest
The potential exists within the possible objects of creation. They could be or not be, all within God’s power. The potential does not exist within God.Yes. Option is potential until it becomes actual, when decision is made, hence God cannot have any option if His will is actual.
W
Wesrock
Guest
No necessity is in God to create only the objects he did create.Did God have any options to create universe or not?
S
STT
Guest
I think you misunderstood me so I repeat myself again: Option is potential. By this I mean one has to move from this state of affair, having options, to actual state, when decision is made. This means that God, a being with pure actual will, cannot have option hence he cannot decide.The potential exists within the possible objects of creation. They could be or not be, all within God’s power. The potential does not exist within God.
S
STT
Guest
Good. This means that God has options. But options are potential as it is illustrated in previous post so your statement does not follow if we accept the fact that God’s will is pure actual.No necessity is in God to create only the objects he did create.
W
Wesrock
Guest
Does it mean that? There is no potential in God, though there is potential in the things that are possible. All options are available, but God has no need for a process of deliberation.
Perhaps you should give your definition of free will so we can just cut to the chase.
Perhaps you should give your definition of free will so we can just cut to the chase.
W
Wesrock
Guest
To say that there is no potential within God is not to say other possibilities were not within his power, but merely to state that there was never a case of the intellect being in doubt (willing both as potential) in regards to the possibilities.
S
STT
Guest
Yes.Does it mean that?
There is potential in God when there are options to decide among otherwise there was no need for decision. The existence of option requires decision, moving from potentiality to actuality.There is no potential in God,
That we know.though there is potential in the things that are possible.
Why not? This is argued in the second comment.All options are available, but God has no need for a process of deliberation.
The ability to perform an uncaused movement to resolve a situation (situation is defined as a set of options). This however is not related to our discussion.Perhaps you should give your definition of free will so we can just cut to the chase.
W
Wesrock
Guest
It’s completely related to the discussion. It seems like your only possible for reason for trying to hammer on this point. What do you mean by “to resolve situations?” This is what I mean by making an anthropomorphism. What is there for God to resolve?
There is no potential in God, but all options are on the table for him. For there to be potential in the intellect over possible action there must be doubt between two or more possibilities such that each exists potentially in the intellect. But God never had doubts between two or more possibilities. He never had to deliberate. He has always willed what he wills.
There is no potential in God, but all options are on the table for him. For there to be potential in the intellect over possible action there must be doubt between two or more possibilities such that each exists potentially in the intellect. But God never had doubts between two or more possibilities. He never had to deliberate. He has always willed what he wills.
W
Wesrock
Guest
Free will is being master over your will such that you are the one directing it to its ends. Willing things that are not necessary to will but because it is of your own accord. That the will is not caused to a necessary effect (and there is no cause for God’s will at all, where cause is an external actualizing a potential).
Discursive thinking. Doubts. Deliberation. These are things of material.
Discursive thinking. Doubts. Deliberation. These are things of material.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.