Can God do evil?

[RCWarrior821]

Is there any scripture that references the fact God cannot do evil?
Also is there anything in the catechism about the same subject?

Thank you

 

[GRACE1022]

Is there any scripture that references the fact God cannot do evil?
Also is there anything in the catechism about the same subject?

Thank you

This is a very interesting topic, for I never looked at it that way.
I thought he NEVER did evil but to some it seems that way
for they can not handle when he lets you know you can’t have
what you want it’s what he wants. By not giving us what we
want and hope for I believe he is teaching us a lesson. Where one door closes another one opens.

I look forward to if anyone does have insight on an area in the
bible for this.

GRACE

 

[JoeyWarren]

Jud 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1Sa 16:15 And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

1Sa 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul’s hand.

2Ki 21:12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.

1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

Jer 19:3 And say, Hear ye the word of the LORD, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.

Jer 19:15 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.

 

[GRACE1022]

It seems that the obvious is to be that God can do all so sure he can produce evil.

Do you feel this answer is also in the area of him creating the devil. By changing him from an angel?

 

[Alverno]

It seems that the obvious is to be that God can do all so sure he can produce evil.

Do you feel this answer is also in the area of him creating the devil. By changing him from an angel?

It is impossible for God to do evil. He did not create the Devil, and did not change him from being an angel. The devil through free will chose all that.
However, it is possible for God to bring good out of evil.

 

[fhansen]

Catholic teaching is that God didn’t create evil but allows it to exist for His own purposes. So God gave angels and Adam & Eve something good-the gift of freedom -and some of the angels, including Lucifer as well as A&E, abused their freedom by rebelling against God, the very source of all goodness itself, and any such rebellion is the origin of evil. God brings good out of evil, allowing it to play out it’s hand and allowing mankind to wallow in it for awhile until, hopefully, we’re convinced to choose only the good. Ultimately evil is separation from God.

 

[GRACE1022]

It is impossible for God to do evil. He did not create the Devil, and did not change him from being an angel. The devil through free will chose all that.
However, it is possible for God to bring good out of evil.

Alverno,

Did you see the quotes above it is written all over in the
bible that the Lord our God does do evil.

 

[bogeydogg]

Alverno,

Did you see the quotes above it is written all over in the
bible that the Lord our God does do evil.

The context of all of those verses is one of God punishing the evil of men. It is not evil for a righteous judge to send evil (although a better translation may be malevolence) on an evil person for having done evil. A judge may sentence a criminal to a life imprisonment or even to execution which may be considered an evil in the way the word is used in those verses, but the judge is not evil for doing so he is just.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Alverno;3624042**:

It is impossible for God to do evil

. He did not create the Devil, and did not change him from being an angel. The devil through free will chose all that.
However, it is possible for God to bring good out of evil.

1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and** he repented** him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

Is there much difference between doing the Evil yourself and sending someone to do the Evil?

 

[bogeydogg]

God cannot sin. It is against God’s nature to sin and therefore He cannot sin.

I realize that there are those who say that since God is omnipotent He can do anything He wants, but that is a misunderstanding of what omnipotent means. Omnipotent means being infinitely able to do whatsoever one wills to do. It does not however mean being able to do anything at all.

For example. Romans 1 19,20 says, “…because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead…” If we accept this then we can say for example that God is rational because Creation operates according to certain rational laws. Therefore the Question, “Can God create a stone He cannot lift?” has an answer. The answer is, “No.” The reason is because if God created a stone He could not lift then He would have made Himself not omnipotent. Therefore God would have become omnipotent and not omnipotent at the same time and in the same way and that would be irrational and therefore we can answer no.

In the same way, we can also deduce that God has a nature and He acts omnipotently within the confines of His own nature. To be able to do anything at all or that may be conceived is omni-competence not omnipotence and they are not the same thing. So the Bible says that God cannot lie nor does he ever need to repent Numbers 23:19 and thus also never sins so we can then fairly deduce that no God cannot sin because it is against His nature to do so.

 

[JoeyWarren]

The context of all of those verses is one of God punishing the evil of men. It is not evil for a righteous judge to send evil (although a better translation may be malevolence) on an evil person for having done evil. A judge may sentence a criminal to a life imprisonment or even to execution which may be considered an evil in the way the word is used in those verses, but the judge is not evil for doing so he is just.

So Satan is not evil, just malevolent?

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Unless you are trying to save your cake and eat it to.

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**God created all things seen and unseen. Evil is there somewhere. **

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**Evil just did not come into being. **

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[GRACE1022]

So Satan is not evil, just malevolent?

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Unless you are trying to save your cake and eat it to.

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**God created all things seen and unseen. Evil is there somewhere. **

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**Evil just did not come into being. **

---

JoeyWarren,

I seem to have the same question???

This is why I posted this but I haven’t heard anyone’s
reply in anothe forum:
Here it is maybe some can chime in here.

I have read in here that hell was created when Angels
decided not to follow God.

But how was it created? I thought that God was the one
to create hell, for doesn’t he create all and is the only one
to do so?

I would find it hard to believe that out of no where POOF hell
came to be when an angel decided not to follow God.

I would think it would have had to be created.

Is there anything that shows this in the bible?

GRACE

 

[JoeyWarren]

Nothing in the Bible about this.

Everybody want’s to portray God as a Benevolent and Loving God only. Because of John 3:16. They ignore the rest of the Bible and especially the Old Testament.

So they have gotten themselves convinced that God cannot do Evil and any other possibility is outrageous. This is exactly how some Protestants are when it comes to Catholicism.

The fact is that God can do whatever he wants.

Too many people live too entrenched in the New Testament and ignore the Old.

 

[JoeyWarren]

BogeyDogg is doing nothing but whitewashing the Old Testament to reflect the New Testament God.

 

[JoeyWarren]

God sends an “Evil Spirit” to do his bidding.

Where did this “Evil Spirit” come from?

 

[itsjustdave1988]

I think we ought to be more precise about our terms as to what “evil” is. There is such a thing as “moral evil.” This is what God, because he is all-good, cannot produce. There is also such a thing as “punitive evil” which clearly God does produce, and does so justly.

God cannot sin (moral evil) because he is perfect. Moral evil (sin) is evil which consists in the defect of thought, word, or deed. It is always caused by the defect of the agent. In God there is no defect, but perfection. Hence, moral evil which consists in defect of action, or which is caused by defect of the agent, cannot have God as its cause. God helps his creation overcome their defect of action (sin), but does not force them to act contrary to their free will. In otherwords, with regard to moral evil, *God in His providence, though infinitely good and powerful, permits moral evil to exist in the world, partly that greater good may not be impeded, and partly that greater evil may not ensue.

*God punishes the wicked. If there was never a sin (as was the case before the fall of angels and man), God would never have cause to create such punishment. God’s just punishment is what is referred to by Catholic theology as the “evil of penalty.” It does not exist except for prior sin. I understand that it is odd to call such *just punishment *“evil” but that is how Sacred Scripture often describes it. For example, “if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will repent of the evil that I intended to do to i**t” (Jer 18:8). This is the evil created by God spoken of in Is 45:7 and like passages in Amos and elsewhere. One ought not to confuse this kind of evil for moral evil, that is sin.

God does not sin nor directly cause the sin of others, but he does tolerate sin to exist in the world, partly that greater good may not be impeded, and partly that greater evil may not ensue.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Here are some Catholic theology references which may help illuminate the distinctions between the punitive evil willed by God and the moral evil (sin) which God cannot commit…

According to Dr. Ludwig Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:

                                             ***God wills physical evil, natural evil as well as punitive evil,*** ***per accidens***, that is, ***as a means*** to a higher end of the physical order (for example, for the acquisition of a higher life), or of the moral order (for example, for punishment or for moral enlightenment). Ecclus. 11, 14: "***Good things and evil, life and death, poverty and riches are from God.***" ...

Moral evil, that is, sin, which according to its nature is a revolt against God, is willed by God neither per se nor per accidens, that is, neither as and end nor as a means to an end." (pg. 46)

Nonetheless, God co-operates in every action of every creature, because “God Himself, or the Divine nature, is in immediate contact with, or immanent in, every creature– conserving it in being and enabling it to act” (Catholic Encyclopedia - Nature and Attributes of God).

Which means, “***God co-operates immediately in ***every act of his creatures” (Ott, 88). This is called by Catholic theology, according to Fr. John Hardon, “Divine concurrence or concursus” (Fr. John Hardon, *God the Author of Nature and the Supernatural, Part one, Thesis II). *It is based upon the teaching of the Roman Catechism which states that God “by an internal power impels to motion and action whatever moves and acts” (Roman Catechism, Article I).

So if man or demon moves are acts contrary to God’s will, by Divine concurrence, that is, by an internal power, God impels to action even the sinful acts of His creation.

That is why it is important to distinguish between the Natural Order and the Supernatural Order when speaking of God’s co-operation with creation, as is taught by the Church.

According to Dr. Ott:

                                             This co-operation of the Causa Prima (God) with the Causae Secundae (creation) is known as "Concursus Divinus." ***The Divine co-operation in the Natural Order is called "Concursus Generalis or Naturalis," to distinguish it from the special supernatural intervention of God through grace in rational creatures***.... The intrinsic reason for the necessity of the Divine co-operation lies in the entire dependence of all created being on God. As the activity of the creature has a real being which is distinct from the power from which it flows, so ***this "being of activity" must be caused by God.***...

God co-operates in the physical act of sin also (actio peccati, entitas peccati); since the activation of the sensual and spiritual powers of the creature, is a being, and therefore something good. The moral deficiency (i.e. the sin as such), which is associated with the physical act, derives from the free will of the creature who, therefore, alone is guilty. God, in consequence of His infinite perfection, cannot be the cause of moral defect" (Ott, ibid., 88).

Thus, while God activates the sensual and spiritual powers of every creature, the moral defect is not a result of that activation, but is the result of a defect of free will.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

God sends an “Evil Spirit” to do his bidding.

While I agree that God sent the evil spirit, I don’t think He did so to “do his bidding.” The spirit did as God knew he would do, but Holy Writ doesn’t go so far as to say that the “moral evil” of the spirit was “God’s bidding.”

On the contrary, the evil spirit was given freedom by God, and by his freewill, the spirit used that freedom sinfully (as God knew he would). For example, Satan was give “power” over Job by God. However, if you read carefully the Book of Job, God never directed Satan as to how to use that power…that evil misuse of freedom had its origin in the defect of the moral agent: Satan.

Where did this “Evil Spirit” come from?

God created angels. Some angels, by their sinful use of freewill, rejected God and thus became “fallen angels” otherwise known as demons or evils spirits. However, in the beginning, they were created good according to Catholic teaching.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Very good Dave. except for the last post.

Sending vs Allowing?

God sent the Evil Spirit without any limitations.

God allowed Satan, but with some limitations.

Dave, how come you don’t help debate against S_nd_sky? He reminds me of Satan at the temptation.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

God sent the Evil Spirit without any limitations.

I don’t think any of God’s creations exist without limitations. Demons are not “all powerful” while some seem to be more difficult to be rid of than others.