Can God do evil?

[itsjustdave1988]

Dave, how come you don’t help debate against S_nd_sky? He reminds me of Satan at the temptation.

I have spent a lot of time in debates with Sandusky. I agree that his beliefs are contrary to true Christian doctrine. However, although at times it may be difficult, I have to believe that he believes what he believes in good faith.

I think its important to spend more time talking to God about Sandusky than talking to Sandusky about God.

 

[JoeyWarren]

I don’t think any of God’s creations exist without limitations. Demons are not “all powerful” while some seem to be more difficult to be rid of than others.

True and True. Yet God, did not impose any limitations as he did with Satan. We can assume there were some limitations…that is all we can do…

 

[JoeyWarren]

I have spent a lot of time in debates with Sandusky. I agree that his beliefs are contrary to true Christian doctrine. However, although at times it may be difficult, I have to believe that he believes what he believes in good faith.

I think its important to spend more time talking to God about Sandusky than talking to Sandusky about God.

True. Sandusky is persistent. I just wish the admin would exercise some control over time. He’s been here over 2 years and it is truely evident, he is not here to learn and inquire, but is covertyly prosyletizing…how much long can one continue to debate before the admin ban him. 10 years?

 

[itsjustdave1988]

True. Sandusky is persistent. I just wish the admin would exercise some control over time. He’s been here over 2 years and it is truely evident, he is not here to learn and inquire, but is covertyly prosyletizing…how much long can one continue to debate before the admin ban him. 10 years?

Sandusky and those like him are giving Catholics an opportunity to excel.

For instance…

St. Augustine of Hippo, De Civ. Dei, XVI, 2: “But even the heretics yield an advantage to those that make proficiency, according to the apostle’s saying, “There must also be heresies, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you” (1 Cor 11:19). Whence, too, it is elsewhere said, “The son that receives instruction will be wise, and he uses the foolish as his servant.” For while the hot restlessness of heretics stirs questions about many articles of the catholic faith, the necessity of defending them forces us both to investigate them more accurately, to understand them more clearly, and to proclaim them more earnestly; and the question moved by an adversary becomes the occasion of learning.”

 

[GRACE1022]

God sends an “Evil Spirit” to do his bidding.

Where did this “Evil Spirit” come from?

Joey,

I totally agree, where did the Evil Spirit come from
God CREATES ALL!

This to me is obvious…

I mean he is saying that he sends someone to do the evil.
Now isn’t this being an accomplice so either way the Lord
takes part in the evil…Am I wrong for saying this?

As I stated I get confused even in the area of the devil
he did not want to be with the Lord he left him. He went
to hell, now some say that is where Hell came from.

But I say the Lord had to create it for how can hell come
out of no where I don’t believe it just came to be POOF…

GRACE

 

[RCWarrior821]

Nothing in the Bible about this.

Everybody want’s to portray God as a Benevolent and Loving God only. Because of John 3:16. They ignore the rest of the Bible and especially the Old Testament.

So they have gotten themselves convinced that God cannot do Evil and any other possibility is outrageous. This is exactly how some Protestants are when it comes to Catholicism.

The fact is that God can do whatever he wants.

Too many people live too entrenched in the New Testament and ignore the Old.

:tsktsk:

God cannot do evil…to say so is really ignorant about God and His nature.

What does the Catechism say God is?

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p1.htm#III

If God is truth and love how is evil possible for God?

Darkness is absence of light…Can light itself become darkness?

Evil is the absence of due good. Moreover the absence of God and therefore manifested as sin.
Can God sin?
Can God be the absence of Himself?

:nope:

God cannot do evil

I was just asking for scripture references but i found my answer in the catechism

Thank God for the Church

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Is there any scripture that references the fact God cannot do evil?
Also is there anything in the catechism about the same subject?

Thank you

God does not produce or create evil (although there is an often misquoted and misunderstood verse that says He does). He allows evil to be used for His purposes in a person’s life.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

It seems that the obvious is to be that God can do all so sure he can produce evil.

Do you feel this answer is also in the area of him creating the devil. By changing him from an angel?

It is against the nature of God to *produce * or create evil. Please show references that He produced evil.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Alverno,

Did you see the quotes above it is written all over in the
bible that the Lord our God does do evil.

No, you misunderstand the Scriptures. Those verses are erroneously thrown around to suggest that God created evil, when in fact He merely allows it to exist. He uses evil things to bring His children in obedience. That’s a far cry from God creating or doing evil as an outgrowth of His character.

Remember that Jesus was accused of casting out demons by Beelzebub and He rightly asks how Satan can cast out Satan.
Remember context and the whole Scripture, not parts.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

1Ch 21:15 And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and** he repented** him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.

Is there much difference between doing the Evil yourself and sending someone to do the Evil?

Yes, there is a difference. It is heretical even by Catholic teachings to suggest that God does evil. If God did evil Himself, that is implying that He is doing it from His own character, His intention, which is impossible. How can holiness and righteousness beget evil? A fig tree produces figs, not cantaloupes.

This verse is part of God’s judgment. Doesn’t He have the right to do what He desires with His own creation? Isn’t it logical that He would destroy them to keep them from doing further evil?

I stand amazed at your statements.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

So Satan is not evil, just malevolent?

---

Unless you are trying to save your cake and eat it to.

---

**God created all things seen and unseen. Evil is there somewhere. **

---

**Evil just did not come into being. **

---

Boy, this just gets worse and worse.

God didn’t create Satan. He created angels. If we go with the traditional understanding that Lucifer became Satan, then we understand that God created Lucifer. Iniquity was “found” in his heart and he then became Satan.

Evil did “just” come into being. Evil is disobedience to God’s commandments. So, God created evil, huh? God created Satan, huh? I’m sorry, but this is just baloney. You are accusing God of being something He is certainly not.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Joey,

I totally agree, where did the Evil Spirit come from
God CREATES ALL!

This to me is obvious…

I mean he is saying that he sends someone to do the evil.
Now isn’t this being an accomplice so either way the Lord
takes part in the evil…Am I wrong for saying this?

As I stated I get confused even in the area of the devil
he did not want to be with the Lord he left him. He went
to hell, now some say that is where Hell came from.

But I say the Lord had to create it for how can hell come
out of no where I don’t believe it just came to be POOF…

GRACE

This is all very simple, basic Christian theology. Evil spirits (historically speaking) are fallen angels. God created angels. Some rebelled of their own choice. They became evil spirits/fallen angels and along with their fallen leader, attempt to scatter the sheep.

Hell was “prepared” (according to Scriptures) to deal with the fallen angels. It was not prepared for fallen humans.

I’m not sure why this is so complicated to some

Where in all of Scripture does it say that God created Satan and evil beings? It doesn’t.

Peace…

MW

 

[LilyM]

This is all very simple, basic Christian theology. Evil spirits (historically speaking) are fallen angels. God created angels. Some rebelled of their own choice. They became evil spirits/fallen angels and along with their fallen leader, attempt to scatter the sheep.

Hell was “prepared” (according to Scriptures) to deal with the fallen angels. It was not prepared for fallen humans.

I’m not sure why this is so complicated to some

Where in all of Scripture does it say that God created Satan and evil beings? It doesn’t.

Peace…

MW

Amen! Just like Adam and Eve and all other of God’s creation, all came from His hands as ‘good’ and ‘very good’. Satan included. That creation became otherwise is purely the doing of the creatures, not the creator.

Put it this way. You choose to have a child, knowing that that child really could become anything at all - Nobel Prize winner, President, serial killer or child molester - regardless of how you raise it or what you do for/with it. That’s what free will means. That the child of its own free will may become evil doesn’t mean the child wasn’t good when you created it.

 

[Peter_Da_Rock]

This is all very simple, basic Christian theology. Evil spirits (historically speaking) are fallen angels. God created angels. Some rebelled of their own choice. They became evil spirits/fallen angels and along with their fallen leader, attempt to scatter the sheep.

Hell was “prepared” (according to Scriptures) to deal with the fallen angels. It was not prepared for fallen humans.

I’m not sure why this is so complicated to some

Where in all of Scripture does it say that God created Satan and evil beings? It doesn’t.

Peace…

MW

Evil Spirits are Fallen Angels? Then why not just call them Angels like they do everywhere else in scripture.

And if they were fallen Angels, why would they do God’s bidding. How would a Fallen Angel do God’s bidding at all?

 

[LilyM]

Evil Spirits are Fallen Angels? Then why not just call them Angels like they do everywhere else in scripture.

And if they were fallen Angels, why would they do God’s bidding. How would a Fallen Angel do God’s bidding at all?

Because they mean essentially the same thing - like the various names(Adonai, Elohim, Yahweh and so on) that are used for God Himself. Different words doesn’t always mean different things.

Surely you know that even evil people can at least at times do God’s will and bidding? A firefighter who saves a child from a burning building may be evil in all sorts of other ways, but at that moment he is saving the child’s life as God bids and wills him to do.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Evil Spirits are Fallen Angels? Then why not just call them Angels like they do everywhere else in scripture.

And if they were fallen Angels, why would they do God’s bidding. How would a Fallen Angel do God’s bidding at all?

Okay, do you want the traditional understanding or the protestant/heretical one that I have? I’ll assume number 2

There are evil spirits who are former humans who still live on earth. However, those are not the evil spirits found in the Bible. Those evil spirits are demons/evil spirits/fallen angels/devils as evidenced in other parts of Scripture.

Uhm…I guess that means that Jesus is simply Jesus and not God the Son, the Great Shepherd, the Great Physician, the Way, the Truth and the Life, the Alpha and Omega…shall I go on???

Jesus is all those things depending on the context and situation.

Fallen angels don’t “do God’s bidding”, whatever that means. There are holy angels that do God’s work, especially in regards to judgment. It was a holy angel who destroyed the firstborn in Egypt during the time of Moses.

The story of Job is an excellent example of how this works:

Satan (the accuser of the brethren) goes before God.
Tells God that Big John doesn’t really love God.
Satan presents a challenge to God.
God allows bad things to happen (what you would call evil I suppose) to not only redeem His servant, but redeem His own honor.

I’m extremely surprised at the posts by some Catholics about this. It all seems very simple to me

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Because they mean essentially the same thing - like the various names(Adonai, Elohim, Yahweh and so on) that are used for God Himself. Different words doesn’t always mean different things.

Surely you know that even evil people can at least at times do God’s will and bidding? A firefighter who saves a child from a burning building may be evil in all sorts of other ways, but at that moment he is saving the child’s life as God bids and wills him to do.

I’m with you sister

Man, this is so simple!

Peace…

MW

 

[Peter_Da_Rock]

I’ll let the verses speak for themselves.

Seven verses where the Evil Spirit is from God

Jud 9:23 Then **God sent an **evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit** from the LORD** troubled him.

1Sa 16:15 And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit** from God** troubleth thee.

1Sa 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit** from God** came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul’s hand.

1Sa 19:9 And the evil spirit** from the LORD** was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

Six Verses where Evil Spirits are fought against.

Luk 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.

Luk 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

Act 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Act 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

13 verses in all.

Act 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

Act 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

 

[rob179ny]

To answer this question is somewhat impossible for us because, God is also infinite and with all our minds put together we are still finite. We may think this answer to be simple but just like little kids when our mommy’s and daddy’s disciplined us we thought they were mean. We couldn’t comprehend it then as we cant fully understand this now. If it is his will it just is. God is all good let his will be done.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I’ll let the verses speak for themselves.

Seven verses where the Evil Spirit is from God

Jud 9:23 Then **God sent an **evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit** from the LORD** troubled him.

1Sa 16:15 And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit** from God** troubleth thee.

1Sa 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit** from God** came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul’s hand.

1Sa 19:9 And the evil spirit** from the LORD** was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

Six Verses where Evil Spirits are fought against.

Luk 7:21 And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.

Luk 8:2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

Act 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Act 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

13 verses in all.

Act 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

Act 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

I suggest you read this:

apologeticspress.org/articles/2325

You’ve shown Bible verses to support your position, but offered no meaningful refutation of my position.

I’m still waiting for answers to my questions, such as:
MysticWarrior:

Yes, there is a difference. It is heretical even by Catholic teachings to suggest that God does evil. If God did evil Himself, that is implying that He is doing it from His own character, His intention, which is impossible. How can holiness and righteousness beget evil? A fig tree produces figs, not cantaloupes.

This verse is part of God’s judgment. Doesn’t He have the right to do what He desires with His own creation? Isn’t it logical that He would destroy them to keep them from doing further evil?

I stand amazed at your statements.

Peace…

MW

and
MysticWarrior:

Evil did “just” come into being. Evil is disobedience to God’s commandments. So, God created evil, huh? God created Satan, huh? I’m sorry, but this is just baloney. You are accusing God of being something He is certainly not.

Instead of copying and pasting Scriptures and basically saying, “here you go”, why not offer some answers about this mystery.

Peace…

MW