Can God make a weight that he cannot lift?

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Jonesboy said:
The question isn’t a legitimate question. It is correctly posed as a question. It has a question mark, and the suggestive tone of a question. But because one of its key terms is nonsense then nothing is actually being asked.
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Thanks for the clarification! I agree with your justification. Just as all the other responses, based on the interpretation of each word and/or phrases, any answer is possible.
 
Jonesboy said:
I said that omnipotence does not bear upon the idea of God making a weight that He cannot lift.
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I believe that to be an incorrect approach.
His ability to create such a weight as well as his ability to lift it speak directly to the omnipotence of God.
At any time, God decides what laws he is and is not subject to.
And at this same time God continue to act as God.

As stated earlier, I do not wish to argue over this.
It is a diffrence of viewpoint.
Jonesboy said:
Logic and grammar bears upon it, not God. You then proceeded to talk about God and omnipotence.
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You wish to deconstruct the question into an illogical and point out the illogic of the question. That very well means the question cannot be applied to God and prevents God from being besmirched by the question.
That is a valid approach.
But I believe the athiest asking the question is going to feel it to be cheating.
 
Jonesboy said:
“Can God make a weight that he cannot lift”, is not a question.

It is not a question because, by definition, there is no such thing as a weight that necessarily cannot be lifted.
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LOL… Then why state that is is a question and end it in a question mark in the original thread?

I’m confused :confused:
 
OP,

A weight, by definition, can be lifted? False. A weight by definition is “the heaviness of a person or thing.” That does not mean it can or cannot be lifted. God aside, it could be so heavy it cannot be lifted at all…and that doesn’t mean its not a weight.

The question “Can God make a weight so heavy He cannot lift it” is a silly, but common question to toy with. It is NOT like saying “Can God make a sky so blue that it is not blue?” That wouldn’t make any sense at all, and would be illogical.

But, “can He make a weight so heavy he cannot lift it?” That is a valid question, of sorts. I’m sorry, I don’t see the flaw you are pointing out, regarding the definition of the word “weight.”
 
vz71 said:
I believe that to be an incorrect approach.
His ability to create such a weight as well as his ability to lift it speak directly to the omnipotence of God.
At any time, God decides what laws he is and is not subject to.
And at this same time God continue to act as God.

As stated earlier, I do not wish to argue over this.
It is a diffrence of viewpoint.

You wish to deconstruct the question into an illogical and point out the illogic of the question. That very well means the question cannot be applied to God and prevents God from being besmirched by the question.
That is a valid approach.
But I believe the athiest asking the question is going to feel it to be cheating.
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PLease, read this:

The question isn’t a legitimate question. It is correctly posed as a question. It has a question mark, and the suggestive tone of a question. But because one of its key terms is nonsense (“a weight that necessarily cannot be lifted”) then nothing is actually being asked.

That silences the atheist.
 
jsaldar said:
LOL… Then why state that is is a question and end it in a question mark in the original thread?

I’m confused :confused:
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The question isn’t a legitimate question. It is correctly posed as a question. It has a question mark, and the suggestive tone of a question. But because one of its key terms is nonsense then nothing is actually being asked.
 
Jonesboy said:
But because one of its key terms is nonsense (“a weight that necessarily cannot be lifted”) then nothing is actually being asked.

That silences the atheist.
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A weight is simply something with mass.
Whether or not it can be lifted is irrelevent to that fact.

See below definitions, note not a single one depends upon the ability to lift it.
Trust me. I have had this argument. Atheists will drag out the dictionaries.
thefreedictionary.com/weight
weight (wt)
n. Abbr. wt. or w
  1. A measure of the heaviness of an object.
  2. The force with which a body is attracted to Earth or another celestial body, equal to the product of the object’s mass and the acceleration of gravity.
a. A unit measure of gravitational force: a table of weights and measures.
b. A system of such measures: avoirdupois weight; troy weight.
4. The measured heaviness of a specific object: a two-pound weight.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/weight
weight 
–noun
  1. the amount or quantity of heaviness or mass; amount a thing weighs.
  2. Physics . the force that gravitation exerts upon a body, equal to the mass of the body times the local acceleration of gravity: commonly taken, in a region of constant gravitational acceleration, as a measure of mass.
  3. a system of units for expressing heaviness or mass: avoirdupois weight.
    merriam-webster.com/dictionary/weight
    weight noun
    1a : the amount that a thing weighs
    b (1) : the standard or established amount that a thing should weigh
    (2) : one of the classes into which contestants in a sports event are divided according to body weight (3) : poundage required to be carried by a horse in a handicap race
    2a : a quantity or thing weighing a fixed and usually specified amount
    b : a heavy object (as a metal ball) thrown, put, or lifted as an athletic exercise or contest
    3a : a unit of weight or mass — see metric system table
    b : a piece of material (as metal) of known specified weight for use in weighing articles
    c : a system of related units of weight
    4a : something heavy : load b : a heavy object to hold or press something down or to counterbalance
    5a : burden, pressure
    b : the quality or state of being ponderous
    c : corpulence
    6a : relative heaviness : mass
    b : the force with which a body is attracted toward the earth or a celestial body by gravitation and which is equal to the product of the mass and the local gravitational acceleration
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Jonesboy said:
The question isn’t a legitimate question. It is correctly posed as a question. It has a question mark, and the suggestive tone of a question. But because one of its key terms is nonsense then nothing is actually being asked.
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The Earth has weight. But no human has yet been able to lift it.
The Moon has weight. But no one has been able to lift it.

The entirety of the creation has weight. But it is not possible to lift it.
 
Jonesboy said:
Can God make a weight that he cannot lift?
This question contains a mistake that, invariably, no-one notices, not even philosophers.

The mistake is the broken idea that something that cannot be lifted is a weight.
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I usually shrug and ask, “Can God make a 4-sided triangle”? :rolleyes:

It’s all how you define certain words
 
vz71 said:
The Earth has weight. But no human has yet been able to lift it.
The Moon has weight. But no one has been able to lift it.

The entirety of the creation has weight. But it is not possible to lift it.
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I said that the idea of a weight that is NECESSARILY unliftable is not a coherent idea.
 
vz71 said:
A weight is simply something with mass.
Whether or not it can be lifted is irrelevent to that fact.

See below definitions, note not a single one depends upon the ability to lift it.
Trust me. I have had this argument. Atheists will drag out the dictionaries.
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A weight is necesarrily liftable or moveable or it would not be a weight.
 
Yes, Jesus is the creator (Col 1, John 1) and as a man on earth I am sure there were things he could not lift.
 
Jonesboy said:
Can God make a weight that he cannot lift?
This question contains a mistake that, invariably, no-one notices, not even philosophers.

The mistake is the broken idea that something that cannot be lifted is a weight.
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God cannot contradict His own nature. We however can be confounded to think so.
 
Jonesboy said:
A weight is necesarrily liftable or moveable or it would not be a weight.
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This thread keeps revolving around this statement. The above statement, which I have quoted, is false. Saying “there is a weight which cannot be lifted” is a completely coherent and logical statement. I do not know why you think otherwise. Where did you hear that weights have to be liftable or moveable to be considered a weight? It is not true. I would like to know your source. 🙂
 
Jonesboy said:
But he couldn’t lift a weight that never was.
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Garyjohn2 said:
This thread keeps revolving around this statement. The above statement, which I have quoted, is false. Saying “there is a weight which cannot be lifted” is a completely coherent and logical statement. I do not know why you think otherwise. Where did you hear that weights have to be liftable or moveable to be considered a weight? It is not true. I would like to know your source. 🙂
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Agreed.
How exactly are you defining ‘weight’?
 
Garyjohn2 said:
This thread keeps revolving around this statement. The above statement, which I have quoted, is false. Saying “there is a weight which cannot be lifted” is a completely coherent and logical statement. I do not know why you think otherwise. Where did you hear that weights have to be liftable or moveable to be considered a weight? It is not true. I would like to know your source. 🙂
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I’m alluding to the difference between a weight that cannot be lifted - which is fine with me, to a weight that necessarily cannot be lifted.

It is a contradiction to say that God can make a weight that he cannot lift, as weights are finite objects, and God is not a finite object among other finite objects.

But then if you get around it by saying that, given God is not a finite object, then the weight is accordingly, necessarily unliftable, then we are being asked to imagine a weight that isn’t applicable to a finite object. Now that idea is incoherent.
 
Jonesboy said:
It’s we, in this case, who utter an incoherency, in our bogus idea that a a weight can be necessarily unliftable.
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Maybe you missed my post addressing this, because it was at the end of a page:
*
This thread keeps revolving around this statement. The above statement, which I have quoted, is false. Saying “there is a weight which cannot be lifted” is a completely coherent and logical statement. I do not know why you think otherwise. Where did you hear that weights have to be liftable or moveable to be considered a weight? It is not true. I would like to know your source. *

For example, think of a back hole. For all we know, a back hole is Infinitely dense…its the mass of an entire star (or solar system) condensed into a single point. It’s mass (and weight ) is so great, it cannot be lifted. There no means by which a human person can lift such a weight…even with any present or conceivable future technology. It is a weight that cannot be lifted. Why doesn’t this make sense to you? 🙂 Weights can and do exist that cannot be lifted.
 
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